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Background Pony #7CFD
@Mildgyth
So were Starlight and post reformation Discrod's. If they get a free pass then I think its only fair that Cozy should as well.
Mildgyth
Best Pink Pony - For being the first person to reach 50k uploads, managing the site's featured images, and countless other contributions to the site.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
Dream Come True! - Participated in the MLP 9th Anniversary Event
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
A Tale For The Ages - Celebrated MLP's 35th Anniversary and FiM's 8th Anniversary
Notoriously Divine Tagger - Consistently uploads images above and beyond the minimum tag requirements. And/or additionally, bringing over the original description from the source if the image has one. Does NOT apply to the uploader adding several to a dozen tags after originally uploading with minimum to bare tagging.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Cool Crow - "Caw!" An awesome tagger
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Site Moderator
Humata, Hukhta, Hvarshta
@Background Pony #7CFD

Definitely not, but even before she went to Tartarus, her crimes were still grave enough that sentencing her as a adult was the only viable option. she might not have thought her plan through completely, but ignorance of the rules doesn't justify breaking them.
Jaredking203
Artist -

The Game Lover-Fan
@Latecomer
@Jaredking203
I think he's probably found it

Even after being fired, I still find it unbearable that Svengallop might have or might not have found his talent, though I still blame Brass Beau for his suggestion on what Svengallop's talent was.



@Latecomer

@Jaredking203
What makes you think that?


Why I think of it is because it seemed he had passion as well during his days as the Countess Coloratura's manager. Although he had little passion, he had no talent at all. As he was much to bully Pinkie Pie and Countess Coloratura, I found out that he had no talent. And that it is he lost his talent.
Posted Report
Background Pony #7CFD
@Latecomer
I mean, they were the last unreformed villains. Even then you can still give plenty of screentime to everyone in three episodes.

@Latecomer
Discord was never a child! Just a manchild.

But in all seriousness if your talking about Cozy then yes, she was a kid. I doupt she's been imprisoned and in the lair long enough to have grown into a mare.
Posted Report
Background Pony #7CFD
@AC97
Still, one thousend years alone in a cage and no attempt being made to try and help him?

And still, in both cases one attempted to talk down the other only to have them run away. You could argue that Starlight gave better arguments but its also worth noting that Chrysalis came very close to accepting it, unlike Starlight. You can even see it on her face at that moment so in that regard it did actually work better. I doupt she was in a state to be bluffing or in some ways trolling Starlight about it.

@gingerninja666
Again, Starlight's approach clearily had more of an effect then Twilight's. Problem is that they let her fly away to go mad with lonelyness. I think had they captured her and gave her a longer Discord style reformation attempt she could have turned over a new leaf.

@Brass Beau
But again, neither of them took it at first.

You could argue that Chrysalis wanted power to feed her subjects at first as evident by her line about it in Canterlot Wedding. Later on she wanted her throne back and you can clearily see her lonelyness when she started talking to inanimate objects.

And about ruining the world. Isn't that what Discord was doing? Plunging it into a state of pure madness and brainwashing those that could stand against him? Based on what I've seen from his potential chaos world I wouldn't want to live in it and the fact that we saw him happily tormenting Celestia and Luna in one of Starlight's alternate timelines shows that he wasn't misunderstood whatsoever.

Its the fact that he got so many chances despite his clear maliciousness while the trio didn't is what gets to me. No one tried to reach out to Tirek in Tartarus even when he helped the Main 6 escape. Sure, he was power hungry but he also had an odd sense of honor like when he let Twilight's friends go after his bargain with her or how at least some of his issues seem to stem from his father. Sure, its not much but its still more then what most other villains had prior to their final defeats.

Chrysalis was a queen and clearily felt that her ways of leading were supperior, just like Starlight and refused to change her beliefs again, just like Starlight. Despite averything she came close to accepting Starlight's offer, but instead of being helped to finally get to that point, Discord teamed her up with two other villains.

Cozy's a kid. Therefore her mind is still developing and might be easier to directly influence towards a better path then an adult's. Yes, she's smart but there are plenty of moments where she shows her immaturity. You can argue that she went to a friendship school, but that was not a reformation school. One can simply memorize words and get good grades but not understand their meaning. We can't know if she could have been reformed or not because literally no one tried to do so with her.


Instead of getting help, Discord brought these three together, demanded that they work together to destroy Twilight and threatened them to do so while giving them the location of a powerfull magical artifact all to set them up for failure. I can't be the only one who finds this to be an absolutely horrible thing to do even to villains. And the fact that he even got to pick their punishment and was so smug about it while not getting punished himself really put a bad taste in my mouth. Because of all of these I feel that the trio were treated utterly unfairly in comparison to him. Maybe I shouldn't be writing so much on this, but I just feel so strongly about it that I can't help myself.
Posted Report
AC97
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition

@gingerninja666

I thought it was amusing (and sad), how he was like the only sane leader in School Daze.

Thorax: C-Can… Can we just focus on finding our lost students?


Thorax: The Changeling Empire can't afford an international incident. If any creature blames the changelings for this—
Ember: What are you up to, shapeshifter?!
Thorax: B-But we're friends!
Posted Report
AC97
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition

@gingerninja666

It would've been harder for Starlight to not feel like Twilight was being the enemy at that point, honestly, the way the latter handled it.

Starlight was being like "please, don't do this, it won't be healthy, I've been there, be better than that."

And if Chrysalis had any hidden vulnerabilities, underlying reasons to act that way, it's not like she ever showed them to anyone, and she'd just double down instead.

It doesn't help that when you give her personality thought, by say, asking those who've been around her, or examine her MO (for the in-universe sense on both counts), it's obvious she's more sadistic than being Queen could make reasonable, and her supposed altruistic motives comes into serious question when she drops her former subjects like a hot potato.

Discord, for example, saved the worst of his villainous actions for those who declared themselves his enemies, even if he was still on the mean-spirited side, whereas Chrysalis finds enjoyment in terrorizing and enslaving civilians, per her own words, so she's ultimately not that much different from Sombra in morals, who died twice.

This day has been just perfect
The kind of day of which I've dreamed since I was small
Everypony I'll soon control
Every stallion, mare, and foal
Who says a girl can't really have it all? [evil laugh]


Queen Chrysalis: You know what's stronger than friendship, Twilight? Fear!


I'll note that Discord was also Celestia's (questionable) idea basically, and that I'm not sure it would've ever happened if it were up to Twilight, and that Starlight was stopped by being talked down, events probably would've happened differently if Cutie Map were the end of it.
Brass Beau

Howdy from Shimmer Pope
@gingerninja666
They probably could have gone crazy with spin offs after a while but a changedling series, or at least a season, would have been interesting…
Call it Pony Tales and make it about the characters the main series didn't have time for (like Coco, Trixie, Thorax, Ember, the Yaks, the Hippogriffs, etc.) so more episodes could be dedicated to developing the series villains.
Posted Report
gingerninja666
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Kaze ni Nare
Thorax was awesome.

I would've happily watched a show about him trying to lead his hive. I always thought he had a better royal arc than Twilight got. XD
Posted Report
Brass Beau

Howdy from Shimmer Pope
@Background Pony #7CFD
A big reason behind why Starlight took it and Chrysalis didn't was the fact that Starlight was motivated by a desire for companionship. She wanted power to push an ideology. Chrysalis, wanted power for powers sake. All three of the villainous trio did. And Sombra now that I think about it. Let's see…

Season one: Luna wanted appreciation. "The love of her subjects" She felt unwanted.
Season two: Discord wanted chaos. It was all he knew.
Season three: Sombra wanted the Crystal Empire for… no real reason was ever given.
Season four: Tirek wanted power because he could take it.
Season five: Starlight developed an ideology based on past trauma. She just wanted her friend back.
Season six: Chrysalis wants to be queen of the world.
Season seven: Stygian wanted to be like his friends. Starswirl is an asshat.
Season eight: Cozy wanted power and be Queen of the world.

Thinking back, Discord didn't realize he was lonely until he had a friend. He's an idiot to be sure and had no empathy but he picked up on the idea (though he didn't fully grasp it) pretty quick. Frenemies seems to imply that, had they taken proper precautions, the mane 6 might have been able to redeem the villainous trio, too. Then again, the threat Discord posed to the world and the fact they didn't want to redeem him seems to imply that they didn't think it was worth the risk.

So… Ruin the world unintentionally and you can be forgiven. Plan on a virtual genocide or global catastrophe and be turned to stone or killed. I guess that kinda makes sense.

@Jaredking203
He could always represent the Dropouts.

@AC97
Yeah, he didn't really get a lot of development before or after turning into a neon bambi.
gingerninja666
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Kaze ni Nare
@Background Pony #7CFD

Oh, I'm not sure how much of an attempt Twi was even making in Our Town. She just gave a speech about how Starlight is wrong, she didn't really reach out to her.

Twilight Sparkle: I studied magic for years too! But what I didn't know then was that studying could only take me so far. Each of my friends has taught me something different about myself! It was their unique gifts and passions and personalities that helped bring out the magic inside of me! I never would have learned that I represent the element of magic without these five! And I certainly wouldn't be here to stop you now!

Starlight Glimmer: Spare me your sentimental nonsense! I gave these ponies real friendships they never could've had otherwise!

Double Diamond: How do you know that?! You never even gave us a chance!


Compared to a much more direct appeal with:

Starlight Glimmer: When Twilight and her friends defeated me, I chose to run away and seek revenge! You don't have to! You can be the leader your subjects deserve.
AC97
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition

@Brass Beau

I'm not sure it would be similar though, since Thorax was convinced there was good in Pharynx… while Chrysalis didn't really show that to anyone, and kinda tried to kill him in cold blood.

Either way, it's more nebulous than I'd like, that it's up for interpretation. It would probably add a bit of depth to him, having an answer one way or the other.

he's not the most interesting character

@Background Pony #7CFD

You're ignoring how Scorpan tried to talk Tirek down in the backstory, so he didn't care about his own brother wanting him to stop. What hope did any of them have, if familial love wasn't enough?

It's also not really "weaker," if she briefly considered it, whereas Starlight didn't at that point, is it?

I think Starlight arguably did a better job of trying to invoke empathy on Chrysalis than Twilight with Starlight initially, considering the latter case just involved Twilight relating to her regarding studying magic, and then bringing things up that had basically no weight to her, like how differences made her, the one who just deposed her, the pony she is.
Background Pony #7CFD
@gingerninja666
Still, practically the same attempt Twilight made with her and the same reaction. Really, the more I think about it the more similar both situations were.
Posted Report
Background Pony #7CFD
@Mildgyth
Actually only Chrysalis had a brief outstretched hoof moment which she almost accepted. And really, that one tiny attempt was weaker then the Friendship speech Twilight tried to give to Starlight when she was defeated in Our Town.
Posted Report
Brass Beau

Howdy from Shimmer Pope
@Background Pony #7CFD
I mean, thematically it makes sense. A Doylist answer is easy to accept. The Watsonian answer is what I'm really interested in. Granted, I should probably learn to accept the Bellsarius Maxim.

And if I could turn my brain off when it comes to the biology of cross species ships, I would. I'd do it all the time. Thankfully, humanized fan art usually helps to relieve that problem.
Posted Report
Background Pony #7CFD
@Brass Beau
I'd say its because the other changelings followed his example and looked to him as a leader or its because he simply did it first and Pharynx was his brother.

Cross species ships don't need to be biologically compatable to work. If you need kids you can always adopt. Then again cross species offsprings could have some nice designs even if their best not to think about too hard.
Posted Report
Brass Beau

Howdy from Shimmer Pope
@Background Pony #7CFD
The change in design never bothered me either, except maybe for Pharynx. Just doesn't mesh with the others. And it's a little strange that he and Thorax have antlers and are larger than the rest. Probably why there's so many theories that "they're the only ones that are biologically Chrysalis's children."

And I don't like Sparity, either. But I'm not a big fan of cross species ships in anthropomorphic works. They give me headaches. Stupid, analytical brain. Making me think about biology and crap.
Posted Report
Background Pony #7CFD
@Beau Skunky
True, they didn't show solely good traits but they did show a few which is again, more then what could be said for others who have done similarely bad deeds with far fewer signs that they could change for the better.

In FIM we have seen time and time again, villains reforming and being given second chances so for many it simply feels unfair that the trio never got so much as an attempt especially considering that one of them is a filly.


@Brass Beau
I always thought that the reformed changeling designs actually looked quite good. Even right after they were revealed.

Also, I may have said this before but I think Sparity is a bad ship as Spike is a kid and Rarity is an adult. The age difference just makes it too creepy for me.
Brass Beau

Howdy from Shimmer Pope
@Beau Skunky
I've said it twice, already. Also, Batman may not be the best example in that regard.
Anyway, yeah, what happened happened. Nothing is gonna change that. Personally, I thought "the power of friendship used against the mane 6" was where that plot was gonna go but it wasn't. I think the potential of what could have happened hasn't been fully explored, but that's probably best left to another forum.

So, any other unpopular opinions?
Posted Report
Beau Skunky
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
Cool Crow - "Caw!" An awesome tagger
Magnificent Metadata Maniac - #1 Assistant
Artist -

Hipster brony
@Background Pony #7CFD
They were still villainous in "Frenemies" though, so they didn't show solely "good traits," and it was setting up their plans for the finale.
After that, their next episode appearance they started turning ponies against each other, and such, and characters spreading "racism," and such isn't exactly a potential for "setting up a reformation," nor showing they have "good" in them.
(And sadly, some people use things like that to use people to their advantage, or divide people IRL, as well. So it's not quite as "far-fetched" as some fans think.)

Is it unfair Link & Zelda never reform Ganon? Is it unfair that Batman never reforms Joker? How long are we going to go over this, and keep saying the same things? I feel none of us are going anywhere in this discussion, and frankly nothing we say is going to change what happened in the show.

So honestly I don't know what else to say on the subject.
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