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Not at all, simply stating people often expand her better natures to ridiculous levels to the point of ignoring her flaws. I mean if Fluttershy is scared of dragons why wouldn’t she be scared of deathclaws?
I’m not really attacking the picture or anything, I like it. I was mostly just thinking out loud and got carried away in debate.
So you’re saying we shouldn’t give a crap about Fluttershy?
I think there’s some validity to what both parties are saying. Fluttershy is rather fragile, but the others can be overly abrasive toward her, if just at their worst. Take Rainbow’s snapping at her to improve her cheering: I know that she needed to improve it big time, but brutal honesty and destructive criticism aren’t always the best ways to go about making your point, as they don’t suggest any specific ways one can go about cleaning up his/her act.
It’s alright, I ain’t even mad.
The thing with Fluttershy is that people generally have this assumption that she is a lone lily surrounded by venus flytraps. She’s simply a timid and docile girl, no more or less good, noble, or compassionate than the others, but people tend to repurpose the ‘timid and docile’ stuff and turn them into a focusing lens for her positive traits, often expanding them to ridiculous proportions, sometimes to the point that they completely override her general character with something else entirely.
Edited
It’s true that Dr. Wolf does tend to overanalyze things, but not to the point you’re suggesting. For example, he talks about how within Fluttershy’s weaknesses lie great strengths, how much it reflects on Applejack’s strength of character to remain positive and loyal to her family even in the face of her parents’ death, and how Rainbow’s willingness to quit Wonderbolts Academy was her defining moment as the Element of Loyalty.
I’m sorry I got so defensive. There were a lot of outside sources contributing to that anger at the time, and I guess I just let it pull me in the wrong direction. When I said you wouldn’t find common ground, I just meant you were acting a bit brusque in telling me “you’re doing so and so”, “that’s not the point”, or “it’s not a question of so and so” - that’s all. I think it’s because I’ve come to view any sort of quick, brisk reply to what I say or feel as a putdown, as I’ve sometimes been subject to that in my personal life. Fluttershy and many other characters, on MLP or other shows and movies, are positive for me to watch, and help me to feel better about myself, each in his/her own way. Either way, I’m sorry I overreacted.
She isn’t the only character bronies put on a pedestal, but of all of them she gets put the highest most often. Few are the bronies who would acknowledge any other character as being more morally grounded, and the general assumption is that all of the others would resort to barbaric and destructive behavior long before Fluttershy even considers such things an option. She is often the morality pet, and people often reflect on how bad or how good something is based on her reaction.
@EndlessWire94
When did I say your opinions were invalid? I’m simply arguing a point. When I said I didn’t need others telling me how to view a character, I meant that as a response to your ‘Doctor Wolf’ comment - I always keep an open mind with the person I’m debating with. I just typically avoid anything like that where I suspect the analyst might make a point of painting everything a character does in a better light, like ‘yes Fluttershy abandoned her friends in the Horrible Death Pit of Horrific Death, but if she hadn’t, they never would have learned how much they needed her and escaped on their own.’
You’re the one getting defensive because I don’t agree with your opinions on Fluttershy. I’ve been fairly friendly in this argument. I’ve not said Fluttershy is a terrible, or even bad character - simply that her fans often exaggerate her importance and weight as a character. Your entire argument could only be to convince me that I am wrong. I’m not saying that’s bad, but there’s not a lot of room for middle ground beyond saying I’m only kind of wrong, but that would also acknowledge that I am kind of right. You don’t seem keen on that idea.
By the way, I think you’re being a bit of a hypocrite. Comments back, you said you didn’t need others to tell you how to view characters, yet you have the cynicism and arrogance to act as if my opinions aren’t as valid as your own, and as if your own opinions are synonymous with the truth. We may be entitled to our opinions, but not to our own facts.
And another thing: when I said that Dr. Wolf might change your mind, I was only offering you a second opinion stronger than mine apparently are. Dr. Wolf’s opinions have had a strong influence on the way I view not only Fluttershy, but multiple characters on MLP.
My point is, I’ve tried my hardest to be friendly and courteous, and even try to find some common ground we could agree on, yet you continue to act like a cynical know-it-all. I don’t need those kinds of people in my life, and I don’t care if you respond to this or not. All I do know is that coming to know about Fluttershy as well as Dr. Wolf has positively changed my life, and in this day and age, I need all the positivity I can get my hands on.
I’m completely aware of that. But she’s not the only character a number of bronies have put on a pedestal, you know. Actually, if Fluttershy even knew she was on a pedestal, she’d probably feel pretty uncomfortable.
Fluttershy has always been more confident when dealing with animals, that’s her area of expertise, and it’s the one situation where she truly is confident in herself. Her big claim to fame is being the one character who would go out of her way to deal with an animal crisis - other than being so shy and fearful that it triggers every instinct of protection some people have to offer.
@EndlessWire94
It’s not a question of criticizing Fluttershy, it’s a point of acknowledging that she isn’t any better than the other characters, simply more vulnerable, but many confuse the two as being one in the same.
And by the way: just because Fluttershy is my favorite doesn’t mean I won’t criticize her from time to time. For example, I feel she could have braver in “Magic Duel” and “Power Ponies”, and her behavior in “Putting Your Hoof Down” was super inappropriate, no matter how badly nearly everypony else had been treating her up until she took Iron Will’s advice.
It still shows she’s at least slightly more willing to take action in dangerous situations, rather than just run away - not only that, she’s not as much of a pushover. Think of it like Applejack slightly getting over her stubbornness, or Rainbow becoming slightly less boastful and impulsive: they may still retain their individual weaknesses to a certain extent, but they’ve undoubtedly lessened since the series debuted.
Edited
She was there but she wasn’t doing anything. Since animals are kind of her thing, I figured she spent the whole time trying to convince it to leave.
[Hundreds are dead]
Although she was right there with her friends helping to stop the bugbear and the Tantabus in Season 5. So maybe it’s just when the situation calls for putting herself in danger that she’ll toughen up.
I know what you meant by snark - but like I said, you’re confusing snark with cruelty. When I say cruelty, I mean something that is intended to hurt. With Dash’s snark, she doesn’t mean to put anyone down - at best she just has filtering issues and at worst it’s playful teasing.
Fluttershy is growing out of her cowardice to an extent, but she still runs away at the sight of danger and will have nothing to do with (grown) dragons.
Back off, you hussy. He’s mine.
thanks
Eeeeeh funny guy.
I love you too, Pagan.
True, but like I said, she is slowly growing out of her cowardice and becoming braver. For that matter, most of the Mane 6 are growing out of their own weaknesses.
When I say “snarky remarks”, I mean Rainbow’s tendency to crack snide jokes, or be short-tempered and judgmental, particularly toward Fluttershy’s timidity, or interests of Twilight’s that she views as “lame” or “uncool”. She is growing out of it, though.
Edited
Fluttershy is definitely more restrained than the others, I’ll give you that much, but at this point I think you’re confusing ‘harshness’ with ‘cruelty’. The others maybe more blunt and more harsh, but that doesn’t mean they’re rude and out to hurt anyone’s feelings. She’s no less selfless than the others, often preferring to run away even if it puts others in danger, but because most fans have this view of her as incorruptibly good her fans often attribute the others to being careless thugs, despite the fact that the others are no less good, no less caring, and no less selfless than she is.
Fluttershy’s kindness stands out to me personally because she’s the least likely of the Mane 6 to go out of her way to make rude/snarky/sarcastic remarks for the hell of it, or be overly blunt/harsh. That’s not to say she won’t do those things period: she has had her fair share of slipping into jerkass territory - she’s just usually not one to do so deliberately or otherwise. And while she can be cripplingly timid and anxious, she is gradually getting over her fears and becoming quite a bit braver than she was when the show began (depending on the writer, at least).
When I said before that she’s capable of turning the other cheek, I meant it partially because she’s shown willingness to give even her enemies the benefit of the doubt. While Fluttershy may not have reformed Discord permanently the first time around, she remained kind to him even though he kept pushing his luck. It shows great strength of character, IMHO, especially when others might just as easily have lost their patience earlier on. This is a trait of Fluttershy’s I’d really like to see displayed in later episodes.
More importantly, Fluttershy’s unyielding sweetness, love for all things cute and cuddly, mild naiveté, frequent anxiety, and low self-esteem make her endearing and easy for me to relate to.
Edited