MLP G5 Discussion and Speculation Thread

@Background Pony #7758
Pretty much. They are the new hope.

All this talk about arcs got me thinking about Hitch. “Dealing with fears” is an important theme for both Hitch and Fluttershy, and Fluttershy’s stories are often about “being proactive versus being reactive”.

So there’s an interesting contrast between Hitch and Fluttershy. With Fluttershy, dealing with fears means working up the courage to confront something, and with Hitch, it means being confronted with things he’s powerless to stop, like magic returning or something happening to Sparky.

Hitch’s character probably hits different if you’re a parent.

Fair point. I still feel there are differences between Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon and Posey were written though. DT & SS felt more like one-shot villains who only appeared when they needed an antagonist for the episode. Posey just feels more… casual, I guess? Like when she appears, it’s not because they need an antagonist for the episode, and she’s more of sassy complainer that you’ll enjoy seeing be proven wrong.

He asked me for my opinion and I gave it. I also made a clarification so there was no confusion. <_<

@CloudMistDragon
making it clear that I understand and it’s fine

@river mines
Glad you understand, you’re cool.

@CloudMistDragon
Thanks you too

I heard about some kind of special later in the year.

Facts or wishful thinking?

@Dustcan
Wishful thinking, Hasbro seems to be trying to get off TYT as cheaply as possible right now.

@Background Pony #7758
If MYM continued, I would’ve loved it if they wrote both to act like this, the thought of the older generations trying to figure out modern technology or anything new is always funny to me

@Wiimeiser
Please don’t make stuff up just because you wish it were the case. As far as we know, there were 4 specials planned within the year. The change to a bi-weekly release might’ve postponed 1 or 2 to 2025 (at the very least, we got the first special slightly later than originally announced), but it’s likely we’ll at least get the 2nd special within 2024.

@Dustcan
Hasbro’s plan is supposedly to do 48 episodes with 4 specials, so that means there’s about 32 eps left and three more specials. So assuming they keep the biweekly schedule some of those might be pushed into the next year.

@evocov
I remember thinking earlier that 2025 was meant for a season 3. Now that the schedule is bi-weekly I think it’s just to indirectly artificially extending the series. After all, it really wasn’t said how long for 2025

Better than nothing I guess.

@Zabilac
In other words, Posey’s just grumpy. Ah, now I remember, Harshwhinny’s rather grumpy herself.

@Background Pony #13BA
If it was more consistent, regular and frequent, it should’ve ended long ago. Nothing beats extension by stalling.

@Mr.Myoozik
I think it would make more sense and it would be funnier of all the ponies that aren’t pegasus didn’t understand anything about technology, we had a little of that at the beginning of chapter one with Sunny not knowing if the cell phone camera was recording.

This gens release schedule fucking sucks

So, I finally watched Make your Mark chapters 5 and 6, and I think it would be interesting to talk about because not only most of the episodes were interesting and fun, but they also go to a direction that takes My Little Pony back to how Friendship is Magic was at its early years. At first you kinda see some signals from both A New Generation and the chapter 1 of Make Your Mark, but this time, after seeing everything, it’s very clear what the vision of the writers and animators is more aligned here, turning into my favorite G5 chapters along with the 2021 movie.

But first we should talk about these episodes.

When I finished watching chapter 4, my first question was “what now?”, not in the disgusted sense of “you can’t tell more stories from this point on”, more like a sense of curiosity of what the G5 writers were cooking. Cutie Blossom Bash was the answer to my question. I expected the writers to went back to the slice of life premise and pretended that nothing happened. But no, they wanted to go on with the story, and this time it’s the Mane 5 encouraging Misty to celebrate a cutie mark ceremony. But the catch here is that all the rest of ponies are little fillies and she has to do it in front of many ponies, making Misty feel more nervous, more anxious and more out of place. And the reason why the story works was because she felt mistreated by Opaline. After getting a treatment like that one for years, you’d expect her to be incredibly shy and nervous for the simple idea of making friends or being in social activities, not because of her new friends being bad, but for the experience she had in the past. It’s not like a cult leader who suddenly became shy or socially awkward after getting a second chance. This story had a premise, a setup, a character development and it enhances the premise of Make your Mark of making good friends. And the way it concluded with Misty getting a private ceremony shows that, yeah, Sunny and her friends want Misty to celebreate her brand new cutie mark, but privately. And Misty is very relatable and you feel sorry for her. All these aspects make this episode good. It’s also the first time I’ve seen in the franchise that an adult pony doesn’t have an actual cutie mark, which was refreshing. You could argue that Bloom and Gloom from Friendship is Magic already did that, but it was part of a dream, so that doesn’t count. Overall, Cutie Blossom Bash is pretty good.

Family Trees is a much much better episode. While we do know a lot of Misty at this point, we never knew that much about her past. And the episode gradually shows half of what happened, just the right amount of information for dramatic purposes. If you’re looking for an episode that explains literally everything and how Opaline found Misty, this is not the episode you’re looking for. We don’t need stories to be encyclopedias, we just want to be compelled by the characters we like without shortcuts, overpowered magic, brainwash spells or any sign that indicates lazy writing. I usually don’t like main protagonists with amnesia (let’s be real for a second: We have more than enough of that in the entertainment industry, especially jrpgs), but the reason why Misty works was because she was already that likeable and relatable, so an intriguing story that shows a little bit of her past, bit by bit, enhances her as a character. And the final twist they gave for Misty and Alphabittle is incredibly sweet. It’s been years since I got surprised by an adorable twist in a My Little Pony story and it’s a big indication that the creators care about this.

Father of the Bridlewood is a story where both father and daughter reconnect while having a good time. Simply put, this is a better told version of “Forever Filly”. In that story, Rarity had zero reasons to start treating Sweetie Belle like an infant after 7 years of stories. In this story, Alphabittle just met her missing daughter after all this time, and he prepared all these activities for Misty because he said she liked them as a kid. It’s not a good way to reconnect to your missing daughter, but he shows he cares about her. The comedy here was clunky and slow, and the ending was a little bit rushed, but, considering we got so many good episodes of Make your Mark, I’m pretty much ok with this.

Mane Smelody is the only episode I didn’t enjoy out of chapters 5 and 6. The premise is too silly for me and it’s too long. I’d argue you can make it compelling if, at the middle of the episode it’s revealed that the hooficure treatment would smell really bad. If you revealed it right at the first minute of a 22 minutes episode, there’s no catch, Pipp just went along with it. I think this change would make the episode less slow. It should have been a Tell your Tale episode.

Nightmare on Mane Street was fine. The party story was a little bit boring, but Opaline’s presence in Maretime Bay was funny. I love the idea that many ponies genuinely thought she was wearing a costume. I miss the times in Friendship is Magic where a villain was funny, but here in Make your mark they want to toy with that idea. Besides, the ending would lead to a bigger conflict.

In Family Trees we see a glimpse of a new world, and it’s fully shown here in The isle of Scaly. In this episode, the Mane 5 and Misty are trying to convince the dragons to join their fight against Opaline. They also meet Spike, the one and only. There was a lot of talk about his design. Most people hate it. I think it’s just ok. The only problem I have with the episode is that I wish the dragons looked different enough. They could have different hairstyles and even different outfits. Apart from that, I think it’s a good episode.

Roots of all Evil is the big one. It’s a two episodes story about the main characters facing Opaline’s threat and how they deal with her. She has the ability to steal other cutie marks, which make other ponies weak and meaningless and makes her more powerful. Considering that she’s an alicorn, she’s a villain, she got more magic thanks to the dragons and she only wants more and more power to the detriment of others, this makes sense. It’s an episode that takes so many ideas from Cutie Map and To where and Back again and adapt them to make it work and create something intriguing and dramatic. Instead of writing a unicorn with base-breaking powers who’s more powerful than an alicorn, it’s an alicorn who abuses her power to gain even more power. Instead of saying “suddenly, the main characters are kidnapped and the new main character has to rescue them”, it’s a plot that shows how Opaline takes step by step the cutie marks of everyone. It’s well paced and it makes sense why it’s a double episode. I’m not a huge fan of Opaline’s song because the lyrics are too obvious and too simplistic, but other than that, it’s a pretty good episode, one of the best in Make your Mark.

The last episode, Secrets of Starlight, is a special episode that lasts 40 minutes. After the defeat of Opaline, the main characters travel to another world where they meet a new type of pony, the auroricorns. Despite that they look friendly, they hide something from Sunny and her friends, which is a task they’re doing for a flying leopard called Allura, that is to find a star that she wants. The episode was neat, although I had some issues with the pacing, but it hinted the return of Allura, so I’m excited to see more of her.

But yeah, the chapters 5 and 6 of Make your Mark are pretty good! I still have some minor issues, like how whenever Zipp speaks, the “stock footage detective music” always plays, and same thing with Pipp with the bass. But I’m well aware that it’s a trademark feature at this point, kinda like how the show tends to overuse the glitter effects. I don’t know which episodes I like the most, either Roots of all Evil or the Misty episodes, and I think that’s a sign of good storytelling. As a matter of fact, both The Owl House and Gravity Falls have such great episodes that I don’t know which episode is my favorite. Misty was properly written compared to other previous characters we’ve seen in the past in this franchise, they want to reinforce the idea of only having a healthy friendship with friends, Opaline was great as a villain (this treatment is what I wanted to see for Chrysalis in Friendship is Magic before I watched that season 6 finale), the main characters have good reasons to ditch the villains, there’s good continuity and, most importantly, the episodes were fun to watch. The only episode I didn’t enjoy was Mane Smelody, but apart from that, I think it’s pretty good.

I’m not saying that Make your Mark is supremely fantastic, don’t get me wrong, but considering the circumstances, I think it’s pretty good. With the exception of some episodes (particularly some from chapters 2 and 4), Make your Mark is better than the last 4 seasons of Friendship is Magic. Whenever I watched some of these episodes, I felt I was punished for watching them, but whenever I watch Sunny and her friends, I have the sense of curiosity that leads me to watch even more. Not to an addictive degree like The Owl House or Rick and Morty, but just enough to get interested in their friendship journey.

So all I have to ask is, why are some fans upset about this?

Well, it’s not necessarily the G5 fans, it’s more the G4 fans. Most of their complaints are not related to G5, they’re more like “Twilight’s friendship was rendered meaningless” or “everyone uses the phones all the time” or “there’s no magic”. Most of the time (at least in some websites where the discourse is taken place) they use these as an excuse to make G5 look like a bad franchise. They get caught in the trap of feeling that “this show is not for me”, but they couldn’t say that out loud because everyone would rightfully question why they need everything to be about them. As a result, they go for another ways to justify their displeasure to G5, including overexaggerating little issues and taking moments of Make your Mark out of context. This is not exclusive to the MLP fandom and I could have an hour discussing about this issue, but that’s a topic for another time.

[1/2]

I’d like to ask you a couple of questions about G5.

Do you know why, in 2021, we got a movie where some earth ponies genuinely believe the unicorns could control other ponies’ minds? And do you know why their magic is linked to the power of three magical stones who have to be mixed in other for this magic to awake?

Do you know why, in 2022, Posey said in the chapter 1 of Make your Mark that “Magic is not very safe”?

Do you know why Misty asked in Sunny Side Up a specific question to Opaline? “Do we have to steal their cutie marks? They’re actually kind of nice ponies”.

Do you know why they took several episodes to develop Misty instead of, say, two episodes?

Do you know why the main characters don’t tolerate Opaline and Allura and their actions?

And do you know why the G5 writers want Make your Mark to be about friendship?

In the animation industry, money talks, nobody would deny it. It’s one of the reasons why Illumination made several successful movies in a row despite the low quality. But here’s another thing: People talk. Not only the people who watch animation, but also the people who work on these studios. That includes character designers, animators, background designers, producers, writers and executive producers among other disciplines. Feedback is important. In the same way companies talk to other companies to put a suspicious worker on a black list, people from a studio talk to each other about certain movies, shows or themes that could be either worth to be explored, themes that could be too saturated or themes that could be kinda disturbing for something you wanna make for kids.

In the animation industry, money talks, nobody would deny it. It’s one of the reasons why Illumination made several successful movies in a row despite the low quality. But here’s another thing: People talk. Not only the people who watch animation, but also the people who work on these studios. That includes character designers, animators, background designers, producers, writers and executive producers among other disciplines. Feedback is important. In the same way companies talk to other companies to put a suspicious worker on a black list, people from a studio talk to each other about certain movies, shows or themes that could be either worth to be explored, themes that could be too saturated or themes that could be kinda disturbing for something you wanna make for kids.

My point is that the people who work on G5 (both A New Generation and Make your Mark) are aware. They’re aware that there has been some very untrustworthy and kinda cynical promises made to fans in Friendship is Magic many years ago. It more seems like they don’t want people to get the wrong idea. They don’t want people to have an idea of just what your expectation is from this because of previous management that happened was kinda rough. They don’t want to bury themselves six feet undergound that other writers and producers might have done in Friendship is Magic.

In other words, it’s like they’re aware that the Starlight Glimmer situation had existed in the past. People know of it. People are aware because it made a profound negative impact on the show, to the point where even the entertainment industry was infested by the trope of “forgiving the bastard” in the second half of the 2010s, being Kylo Ren from Rise of the Skywalker the most popular example among other characters, like Catra from She-Ra and the princesses of power.

Fortunately it’s been 9 years since Cutie Remark happened, but it was definitively a thing that affected the animation industry during that decade, and it’s very unfortunate because it doesn’t make any sense. Why should I trust a character who says “I’ve changed” when their actions don’t match with their words and ideas, especially in a kids show? It’s like the writers didn’t want their character to improve. As a matter of fact, there’s a song in Fame and Misfortune that basically says “we have flaws, stop expecting us to improve as people”. But… wasn’t that the entire point of Friendship is Magic? It’s a kids show about friendship. You are supposed to teach friendship so that kids can catch things up and get better.

The writers of G5 don’t want to use Misty as a gauge of representation of what people are interested in the future. They don’t want to trick the audience. If they’re gonna do something with a character or a story, they’re gonna do something with them, and it’s not gonna come at the caviat of an abusive character who refuses to change their behaviour. And that’s what happened before.

When A New Generation came out, there were lots of complaints about how ponies with no magic is absurd. I understand it, but it was an extreme solution to an extreme problem. They don’t want overpowered characters who get away with it because that already happened in Friendship is Magic with Starlight Glimmer.

When Posey shares her concern about the use of magic was because that was a thing in Friendship is Magic, particularly in the later seasons.

When Misty made that question to Opaline, it’s because cutie marks represent their talent and uniqueness.

If Misty got several episodes until she was redeemed in chapter 4 it’s because the writers don’t wanna give her two weak and underwhelming episodes and call it a day. They wanted to do the right thing, not doing the bare minimum.

The main characters don’t tolerate what Opaline and Allura because they don’t respect bullies or people who just want more power to the detriment of others.

And Make your Mark is still an animated show about friendship because that’s what Friendship is Magic initially was about.

I think they understand that the redemption trend of last decade being a thing because “people should sympathize/empathize with the villain” (even though that seems to be saved only for conventionally attractive characters, people with nice hairstyle and blue eyes, basically waifu/husbando material) is garbage. It’s never been a problem before. It’s never been a thing that leads to a result that makes any sense, and I think they understand that now.

I really respect this attitude because that shows that the people behind G5 are more self-aware than it has ever been in a long time. It’s super refreshing to see something like this in the franchise.

Some of the G4 purists would say “Twilight’s friendship was rendered meaningless”. Did they care enough about twilight’s journey? Because there was a time where people like SilverQuill demanded that Friendhsip is Magic should be less about Twilight and her friend and more about the world, which would render the value of friendship in the first place. And people went on board with it.

Some of them would say “everyone uses the phones all the time”. You know some people go to websites with their phones, do you?

Some of them would say “there’s no magic”. Friendship is Magic never was a TV show about magic, unless you count the later seasons. It was a TV show about friendship.

Make your Mark isn’t perfect, but when there’s a good episode, it’s a good episode. But no matter how good they are, these people will find other excuses, because nothing is good enough. They have that Microsoft mentality. Oh, Hi-Fi Rush got unprecedented awards that give a sense of value to Xbox? Ok, let’s shut the studio down. Because that’s not good enough.

I’m also worried about the level of understanding of an average MLP fan. When I talked about chapter 2 of Make your Mark in a website two years ago, I got a specific reply, I’ve read it and I concluded that he either hasn’t read it or hasn’t understood it. There was no input, no feedback, no nuance, nothing. Just a sentence of 4 words, nothing else.

But it’s not that surprising at this point. After all, I’ve received a death threat from someone who wants me to be dead because I didn’t like Pinkie Pie enough.

Beautiful. Classy.

It’s kinda funny how nowadays people on the Internet seem to demonize anything that’s genuinely wholesome, like having healthy relationships with your friends or your siblings, and then normalize stories with characters who have creepy attitudes. It reminds me of how last decade people talked about, say, The Big Bang Theory. In that show, the main characters are said to be friends, but in every single episode we see them roasting each other, to the point where you assume they kinda hate each other. As a matter of fact, Leonard went to Antarctica with his group of friends for research purposes and then destroy the research just to gain extra time to sleep with Penny. And speaking of her, there were several moments where Leonard has slept with some women and then he pretended that nothing happened so that Penny wouldn’t suspect. There are lots of moments like that in the show, including him getting sick of Howard sharing his experience about how he went outer space because, according to Leonard, “it’s not about him”. But nobody bats an eye because “the knock knock Penny joke is peak comedy”. It’s never been an issue for them because “geek things are cool now”.

Whenever I talk about this to someone, they tell me that “this is what friends do”. Do they? Why would this creepy behavior indicate any sense of loyalty and respect to a friend? It kinda reminds me of a couple who has been married for several years and most of the time they spent screaming each other. And when I asked why they do that, she told me that “this is what couples do”. Do they though? Because last year I had to call the police because her husband was threatening her with some scissors. Is that “what couples do”? I don’t think so. I don’t think anyone should tolerate this behavior, no matter if it’s a married couple or a group of friends. My older brother is gonna marry to his fiancee and these two have never had a situation where they insult and scream to each other, because they respect each other.

And don’t get me wrong. I love shows like Breaking Bad, Rick and Morty, Succession, The Wire and South Park. These are stories that allows this type of behavior. My point is that it shouldn’t be a normal thing in an animated kids show. If Digimon came out today and the episode with Tai and Kairi (the one where he went back to the human world) aired today, these people would probably roast it and turn it into an easy target because “siblings are not that affectionate to each other”, that “it’s not realistic”. This is why Frozen became an easy target for several years. They don’t wanna focus on the story and the sibling relationship between Elsa and Anna and some specific twists that reinforce these affection themes that went completely over some vocal viewers’ heads, they wanted to talk about the villain as an excuse to ask where the classic Disney villains have gone to. This is why I appreciate that, say, The Owl House has characters who genuinely respect their friends, because that’s what friends do.

And speaking about The Owl House, if there’s one thing I learned after watching the very last episode is that the redemption trend is crap. Very few times I’ve seen this working well, like Nebula from Avengers Endgame, Tempest Shadow, princess Luna in season 2 of Friendship is Magic, Misty in Make your Mark and Lilith from The Owl House (at the end of season 1 she had to pay a price, which was sharing the curse, an exchange that made her grow as a person) among very few characters. You can’t apply the empathy argument with a villain who has done several nasty things. You ain’t coming back from cults, tricking people and manipulation. You just can’t.

I think people want this “morally grey” area so bad in shows for little kids because they’re afraid of being judged in the eyes of others, specially in today’s social media with platforms like Twitter. That would explain a lot of things not only in this fandom, but also in other fandoms. Just a guess. Fortunately I haven’t seen this that frequent in this new decade, because we already have seen more than enough.

You’d think a community surrounding an animated TV show about friendship, love and tolerance for over ten years would care to see how these themes are translated to A new Generation and Make your Mark by this new team of writers and value some individual stories they’ve told with these characters. But why do basic inquiry if you can just say “Twilight’s friendship was rendered meaningless” and make it your whole personality.

So, for everyone who wants to see wholesome media or has some story ideas, go write these stories and support the people who write this type of stories. Sure, some people will turn it into easy targets, like Frozen, but there will be people who will appreciate it for what they’ve made. Atfer all, I’ve started to see more people who love Frozen for what it is instead of what people expected it was gonna be. So go write it. Write that wholesome story. Write it before you finish reading this.

[2/2]

@Icicle Niceicle 1517
Tell us something we don’t know. XP Anyway, I think we’ll get the second special later this year, just not in August. The first special was originally supposed to come out in March and it came out in April instead.

Not that he’s mentioned it ever but the closest he got was “wanting to see more of Allura”. Should we tell him? :)

thats right

Actually, in Secrets of Starlight, Misty tries to inquire about what made Allura the way she is, and in the Season 2 premiere of Tell Your Tale, Sunny talks about how she thinks everyone, including Allura, deserves a second chance. Unlike Opaline, Allura is hinted at having redeeming qualities about her.

I like the idea that Allura becomes “the one that got away”. She’s not defeated, but she’s not really reformed, either.

@CloudMistDragon
In the last episode she appeared in so far, she demonstrated a likable quality that could be used for redemption: she genuinely cares about Twitch.

Even though they are the classic couple who irritate each other, they manage to talk again, Allura in the special listened to his suggestions of using ice magic, let Twitch snuggle up to her, seeming very used to that intimacy and protected him from getting hurt by her. Izzy’s magic, in the previous appearance she even commented that Twitch was a much better rabbit than everyone else.