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Description
Inspired by the story Eternal
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Celestia bearing the mantle of princess because of her all consuming love instead of out of guilt. Her guilt coming from never believing she’s doing enough and taking every mistake to heart. Creating this harmonious society to make up for her mistakes in the past and for what happened to Luna believing she failed as a sister and a ruler and taking that anger out on the Sun.
I don’t like how Celestia forgets Luna so easily and I don’t like she’s so cowardly and arrogant without having the love that keeps her on the right path without it blinding her. A la “The Sun Refused to Set” short story. I think this story is trying to convince Celestia did this evil horrible thing and I can’t buy it that she’s selfish and cowardly.
With Luna’s standing characterization in Eternal it does come of as rather weak. It seems to match more, say Luna for TIG, I would’ve loved it if the reason Luna went so haywire is she viewed that the love between her and Celestia was devalued for her lack of trust in her. At least from her POV, sort of my spite from the lack of a Luna arc in Composure leaking into this piece of fiction.
I think Luna and Celestia’s relationship works the best if they both had fault in the fallout of their relationship. Luna believing the Celestia does not simply trust her and views this as a reason for her not setting. She at first tries to warn her that she can’t be a crutch for Equestria, sometimes you must let them fall skin their knees, even if entire cities fall with them. But Celestia brushes off these reasons and focuses on fixing Equestria by herself.
So Luna attempts to make Celestia set by turning into NMM because she cant convince herself that she’s doing the right the thing even though she sees the turmoil this is causing both Equestria and Celestia herself. As well as being resigned that Equestria wont love her like she loves Celestia but instead of lashing out at Tia for it she becomes the Dark Shepard so she can help Celestia rule.
Now for Celestia, well I’ll post a whole ’nother chunk of text for my issues with her.
Hmm. As a stand alone fic it lacks more of a framing device. Or perhaps more focus, since it lacks a real development of the central idea that Celestia needs to chill. I’m a bit confused about what was the intention. If it was a part of Eternal, it would make a little mlre sense, but I still wouldn’t like it.
In the end, this looks like a “Lunawank” disguised as a study about Luna’s feelings towards her sister. What drags it down,for me is this notion that Luna felt under her sister’s shadow when in reality Luna’s problem is supposed to be that ponies didn’t like her night. Which shouldn’t even be a problem since her duty is to watch over their dreams and they can’t dream if they’re awake.
It’s the same problem I see in Luna in the cartoon. She’s a rebel without an actual cause because the whole characterization for her only works if the story insists that Celestia was hogging all the spotlight. The author wants Luna to be the underdog while in reality she is her sister’s equal and in a meta way, Celestia is the one that actually gets neglected. These whole field of troupes most people writing Luna only work tnis way. It’s always about how Luna was right and it was Celestia’s fault.
It only makes want to tell Luna to grow the f up already and think that people want even less Celestia.
Hehe don’t feel stupid. I’d love your thoughts on it afterwards.
Glad I found someone who’s involved in Celestia’s character just as much as I am :D
I feel stupid. Months later and only now I noticed it. I’m going to read this one before bed tonight.
I get the feeling that most stories (specially the cartoon) treat Celestia more like a plot device rather than a character. Maybe I just been reading the wrong fics, but whenever Luna is involved, the chance I’m not going to like Celestia is huge.
Don’t sweat long texts with me. I’m not afraid of reading. XD
“The Sun refused to Set” was the link I had below. I totally agree with you most authors miss the mark on Celestia and Luna’s relationship. I think the best fic I had ever read that dealt with these two was “The Immortal Game”.
What made me fall in love with the story’s presentation of Luna was that she was portrayed as an adversarial type character. Basically the “Ha-Satan” of Equestria where she presents herself as a monster, as cold and unforgiving as the stars that hung in the sky. In the story she accepted she taught ponies to destroy than love each other. Thus she acts like a “Machiavellian Villain” in order to save her sister and allow herself to be a scapegoat in order for Equestria to love Celestia all the more. Quite brilliant IMHO.
For Celestia in the story she is a chessmaster but a militaristic chracter just as much. She uses “subtle influence” instead of Lex Luthor levels of planning since when you’re viewed as a God ponies free wills are as moldable as clay. So she doesn’t even need to move the pieces, they move as she molded them too. At the same time she bumps head with Luna on dealing with Equestria and who isn’t afraid to push her or call her out. But at the same time she does worry about how this manipulation affects her loved ones. Such as how she views herself failing as a sister toward Luna and as a mother/mentor to Twilight. I like that in this fic she’s tired of being at the top and the damage she’s done for this position.
Oh yeah on Composure, Celestia is a total hypocrite to the point it made me almost rage. It’s a Twilestia fic so of course she puts Twilight on a higher level of importance than her own sister and of course Luna is treated as the insecure jealous little sister. Not the “Celestia you don’t even trust me your own flesh and blood, you’ll sooner accuse me of turning into NMM again than ever doubt Twilight is less than perfect” Which, I am not even kidding. Fucking. Happened.
Celestia in that story does not trust Luna, lashes out at her for even trying to help her when she’s injured, and even FEARS AND REGRETS freeing Luna because she’s worried she won’t love her. Nope not one iota of empathy is saved for Luna because MUH PURPLE SMART.
I think I would’ve liked Eternal more if Celestia had more of a backbone or acted like a being who has a mind of a God, times three, while keeping that all consuming love she has for Equestria. As well as Luna acting more like the Satanic role in TIG and “The Sun Refused to Set”
Edited
I can’t remember ever reading these… “The Sun Refused to Set” and “Composure”. Actually, the first one I didn’t even find. The second strikes me as that kind of story that turns Celestia into a two-faced hypocrite.
Honestly, most stories that I know do weird things with the Sisters. It annoys me that Luna is invariably “wiser, smarter and funnier” while Celestia is the eternal boring chessmaster that never really does anything by herself. Because of that, people in the fandom have a tendency of writing the relationship between Celestia and Luna as the older being utterly boring and Luna being charismatic and dynamic. To me, they work better when they work together and are complimentary, rather than opposite and combative.
Well, Eternal is kinda like that, but also different. It’s not so much that I didn’t like “Celestia” but what the author did with her in the conclusion. Usually, I’m tolerant with a lot of things such as Celestia’s motivations or even the morality of her decisions, because those are open to the intentions and ideas from the author. But since I think the cartoon does a terrible use of Celestia , I dislike any story that I feel “takes away” from Celestia, diminishes her or makes her less special and unique.
While Eternal doesn’t really do that, I don’t like the author’s take on mortality/immortality and Celestia’s place (and Luna’s) in the mythos the story presented.
While I hope I’m not jumping the gun on this conversation but I think my biggest gripes at further introspection of her character would be her disregard for Luna and her petty reason for alienating Twilight which I interpreted in a completely different way. But my gripe circles back to Luna when I read “The Sun refused to Set” and how she treated her. Luna’s and Celestia’s relationship are absolutely vital for me when it comes to interpreting their characters. If you mess that up you I drop the story faster than a hot potato “a la Composure”
You didn’t like Celestia? Dare I ask why? I admittedly have some problems myself with how her character is dealt but I’d love for you to tell me what made you dislike her.
I have a similar problem with Celestia in Composure whom I absolutely abhor despite the story receiving to what amounts to universal praise.
It’s been some time. I can’t recall all the details to perfection.
But people told me that this is one of those “must read” stories, and well, technically, it is because it gives flesh to one of the characters in the show that needs it the most. It is a very good story (certainly better than I could ever do) as the author has a good grasp on the plot and events flow nicely most of the time. The author also has a strong grasp on the characters and that is usually the recipe for a good story. So there is nothing wrong “per se” with the story and I almost like it.
But me not liking Celestia is the easiest way for me to dislike a story, specially when she’s an important character in the story. I feel kinda silly complaining about this because I feel like it’s an illegitimate complaint to have about a story, but I didn’t like the conclusion and most of the mythos the author introduces. Well… A story being good and someone liking it are different things.
I hope you dont mind me asking, how’d you like the story?
Oh you’re very welcome! I hope you enjoy this fic as much as I did
Thanks a lot. That was exactly what I wanted.
Sorry that took forever and also I hope it’s not too long or wordy because I had to gush over Celestia.
Also:
For a taste of Celestia’s and Luna’s character I highly recommend reading this:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tFYcnwHKCA9QJGpY2I9lRNEVSvEpWZGmhShC0xy4J7o/edit
Now unto Celestia who is a multifaceted jewel of a character in the story. As the saying goes “heavy is the head that holds the crown”, her role as princess as weighed down on her heavily. It’s chipped away at her being over time to the point in the story she collapses from how tired she is from of being ‘the Eternal Sun’ and the revelation of her self-imposed isolation also effecting Twilight was the final straw on the alicorn’s back.
Celestia in this story has two tragic flaws:
Now what is the Eternal Sun that I keep referring too? Well in a very creative and genius way to cement Luna and Celestia as avatars of their respective celestial bodies; they both go through cycles. Luna waxes and wanes with the moon, from appearing to the blue haired filly we saw in the series premiere to a mare with the same stature as Celestia. Meanwhile Celestia rises and sets with the Sun by having to go to “sleep”; meaning she retreats to her sanctuary for periods of time.
But at one point that cycle got in the way when she waged war against the Madness of Discord. Over time the war started to affect her every time she set, since when she returned, she was only greeted by scorched earth and generations of ponies raised up for war. After the defeat of Discord and the time for her to set came again she couldn’t leave. This caused a fallout between her and Luna, who attempted to make her set because she saw how weak she was getting and how Equestria was torn on whether to trust her or distrust her. So Luna, driven mad with fear and anger transformed into Nightmare Moon because she no longer could convince herself she was doing the right thing and was banished.
And what caused her to become the Eternal Sun. She chained the Sun to sky in order to stop setting period. The Sun in this story is the part of Celestia that is the sun and her own pony. So essentially she chained herself to the Sun like she chained Luna to the moon.
Okey dokey give me a minute to write something up then!
It’s okay. Spoilers don’t bother me. And thanks in advance.
Before I talk is it alright I spoil a part for you, since it’s essential to her character and tragedy in the story. If not I think I can talk about her character without spoiling that one part.
Also sorry for the rather late reply
Edited
Someone (not entirely to be trusted to provide a unbiased opinion) told me that Celestia is just lame in this story. So, if you don’t mind, could you tell me why did you like it? It’s been sitting in my “to read” list for some time since its big and there are others that are “safer” to read.
looks at description
“Oh, good. I was right.” XD