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I think Churchill said all that needs to be said on that subject.
Just gotta think of it.
A king can no more command the ground to release his feet than a layman could.
“Discovery/Imperialism happened for a myriad of reasons, none of which involved people who managed to get places in intelligentsia after a miraculous escape from the Inquisition (no, the pilgrims to the New World weren’t running away from the Inquisition; England wasn’t even Catholic at that time).”
England wasn’t the only country with a vested interest in exploration and global dominance. And all churches of the time were in favor of killing “witches”.
“A weapon’s effectiveness heavily relies on the aptitude of its user.”
So I would take only what I was proficient with, and/or develop proficiency in whatever’s available. Come on, man. You’re starting to insult me with these assumptions.
“It’s also harder for one person to fight two, or five, or ten people.”
No shit it is. That’s why you lure them into a place where they have to fight you individually. Basic tactics.
“A serf would be allowed some personal freedoms and items according to the laws of the land, whereas a slave would be entirely considered the personal property of his immediate owner thus allowed no privileges above that which his owner grants him.”
I would like to see proof of this.
“I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the possibility of hallucination when the alternative is literal magic and witchcraft.”
I didn’t disagree with you. I just said that if that were the case, it would be my highest priority concern. Then again, if I didn’t know that were the case, I’d have no reason (or capacity) to be concerned with anything not produced by the hallucination or successfully translated through it as a threat.
“Any point can be made valid when enough bull is accepted to support it.”
Yes I know, but you’re not even providing that. You’re just trying to dismiss everything I say out of hand.
“Maybe it’s an evil magic that’s sending me to be food for a werewolf or to die and be risen as some necromancer’s slave. Maybe it’s not the same type of map I think it is, if it is actually a map. It still helps to research the topic before risking everything on what’s probably a wild goose chase at best.”
Maybe, maybe, maybe. Maybe the moon was made of cheese until somebody went to look. Maybe everybody who tries to build a flying machine will fail by default. Maybe the world is flat and if you went too far in one direction, you’d sail right off the edge of it. Certainty will remain absent until somebody actually goes to look.
“Give up on magic maps already? I understand. Trying to justify magic maps would be a pain for just about anyone.”
No, I haven’t. And no, you clearly don’t. I was saying the map is what identifies you using your unique mark. Something which any halfway competent government would have a fairly large and in-depth record of. You can try to frame whoever you want, but that won’t change the big neon sign with your name on it.
>Well of course it doesn’t. It’s called the Force because Lucas couldn’t come up with a sufficiently clever name for something that worked like existing forces (such as electromagnetism and gravity) but was basically magic. Now, you can argue against the sovereign authority of gravity all you want because it doesn’t have an active will of its own, but that’s not going to get you off the ground. I imagine the “Harmony” or “Destiny” responsible for the magic gems that have been driving much of the plot operates in basically the same way.
My point of contention here is you’re treating the laws of the universe as the same sort of beast as the laws of a state or government, which is treating apples the same as oranges.
>The ones that did are a sizeable portion of the ones who survived to have offspring. It’s reasonable to believe that’s why the Age of Discovery/Imperialism followed the Renaissance.
Discovery/Imperialism happened for a myriad of reasons, none of which involved people who managed to get places in intelligentsia after a miraculous escape from the Inquisition (no, the pilgrims to the New World weren’t running away from the Inquisition; England wasn’t even Catholic at that time).
>Wait, you would go outside the protection of a manor without a weapon?
A weapon’s effectiveness heavily relies on the aptitude of its user. It’s also harder for one person to fight two, or five, or ten people. This isn’t like Skyrim where any weapon can be useful no matter how unpractised you are with it.
>I don’t believe in fighting fair,
Neither do slavers. Your willingness to hit a man below the belt is far from an advantage here.
>Name an example, please.
A serf would be allowed some personal freedoms and items according to the laws of the land, whereas a slave would be entirely considered the personal property of his immediate owner thus allowed no privileges above that which his owner grants him. This is basic stuff.
>If I’m having hallucinations so vivid that they affect more than two of my senses, anything I find outside the walls of a medieval castle is a lesser concern.
I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the possibility of hallucination when the alternative is literal magic and witchcraft.
>And you still wouldn’t.
Any point can be made valid when enough bull is accepted to support it.
>You seem to be overlooking the ’magic actually exists’ qualifier in my past post. You can no more guarantee that hiding in your hovel will save you from the call of some unknown duty than I can with actually heeding it. The only difference is I’ll at least have a sense of accomplishment at the end of it, and relieved of the burden of an annoyance without self-mutilation.
I did overlook it by accident, but it adds even more questions that need answered before an answer can be made with any certainty. Maybe it’s an evil magic that’s sending me to be food for a werewolf or to die and be risen as some necromancer’s slave. Maybe it’s not the same type of map I think it is, if it is actually a map. It still helps to research the topic before risking everything on what’s probably a wild goose chase at best.
>It identifies you with a known mark on your body unique to you that you don’t know your ability to remove.
Give up on magic maps already? I understand. Trying to justify magic maps would be a pain for just about anyone. I’d probably go to the library to research this phenomenon (probably the same thing Twilight would do if she was acting rationally and in character) or ask some specialist in the subject for his opinion.
Yes they are. However, you made a lot of points that have to be countered individually, so there’s not really a lot of options here. I could just use regular quotes instead if you prefer.
“People tend to put faulty logic on the spot.”
People tend to put any arguments that don’t mesh with their established beliefs on the spot.
“Non-sequitur. I’m not saying it is the Force (not that even this “calls shots” in any comparable way to one that a political figure would, which is why I brought it up).”
Well of course it doesn’t. It’s called the Force because Lucas couldn’t come up with a sufficiently clever name for something that worked like existing forces (such as electromagnetism and gravity) but was basically magic. Now, you can argue against the sovereign authority of gravity all you want because it doesn’t have an active will of its own, but that’s not going to get you off the ground. I imagine the “Harmony” or “Destiny” responsible for the magic gems that have been driving much of the plot operates in basically the same way.
“Wow, I bet nobody in medieval times who was accused of witchcraft ever thought of that.”
The ones that did are a sizeable portion of the ones who survived to have offspring. It’s reasonable to believe that’s why the Age of Discovery/Imperialism followed the Renaissance.
“Naive 21st century first-worlder on Derpibooru comment section vs armed Tatar marauders.”
Wait, you would go outside the protection of a manor without a weapon?
“I wonder who would win.”
Whoever stacks the odds in their favor the most. I don’t believe in fighting fair, especially when defeat means things worse than death happening to me.
“There is actually a fair amount of difference between a slave and a serf btw.”
Name an example, please.
“This coming from the guy who assumes this magical map out of nowhere actually points to somewhere significant, or is even real and not a hallucination of some sort.”
If I’m having hallucinations so vivid that they affect more than two of my senses, anything I find outside the walls of a medieval castle is a lesser concern.
“If we’re going off some made-up logic that makes the Sonichu universe look plausible, then you might have a point.”
And you still wouldn’t.
“Assuming we’re still in medieval times, probably sear it off with a hot iron before bleeding myself to balance my humors or beg a priest to purge the demons from my body.”
You seem to be overlooking the ‘magic actually exists’ qualifier in my past post. You can no more guarantee that hiding in your hovel will save you from the call of some unknown duty than I can with actually heeding it. The only difference is I’ll at least have a sense of accomplishment at the end of it, and relieved of the burden of an annoyance without self-mutilation.
“I mean I’d hide my involvement with it. Actually, it sounds like a golden opportunity to have someone I don’t like burned at the stake for witchcraft.”
It identifies you with a known mark on your body unique to you that you don’t know your ability to remove.
On an unrelated note, the ratio of backquotes to posts is getting a bit out of hand.
[bq=“Somber Star”]And out-of-place gushing doesn’t help yours.Which is why I don’t do it. For that matter, why am I the one on the defense here? You’re the one who needs to have a justification for supporting an oppressive dictatorship, or to explain how this is not such a thing.
Which is why I don’t do it. For that matter, why am I the one on the defense here? You’re the one who needs to have a justification for supporting an oppressive dictatorship, or to explain how this is not such a thing.
Yes, and if you knew more about the subject, you’d know that the Force does have a (unknown) will of its own and trades dominance with those who are said to ‘wield’ it. Regardless of what you want to equate it to, it calls the shots.
If I lived in the Middle Ages and had enough space for a living room, I’d be the lord and could go wherever I damn well pleased.
I’m an atheist, so this is a problem I’d have to face regardless. And by “convince”, I mean “escape”. See? All the more reason to go on an adventure.
It’s called winning a fight, and your introduction was European serfdom, which is not a significant difference.
It’s an acceptable hazard. A lot of modern jobs are potentially fatal. The payoff is sometimes almost worth it. Also, you’re basing a lot off an assumption here.
We’re talking about taking directions from a giant magical map that mysteriously manifested in the middle of a floor. So no. That would be completely arbitrary and pointless.
Even if that message was conveyed to you through an intimate part of your body which was branded with a mark identifying you? What would you do if it didn’t stop? Cut off the tattoo/brand thing?
The map in question is about 30 feet wide, glows, generates 3D images and makes noises. Have fun hiding it.
And out-of-place gushing doesn’t help yours.
Destiny is a far more abstract concept than something that expressly gives orders to the royalty, or anyone for that matter. It’s certainly not something you can say has formal station or authority like some ethereal high king. You’re better off comparing it to the Force in Star Wars or Chaos in Warhammer.
If you were in the Middle Ages, you’d probably be a serf and you’d have to convince your landlord that you’ve stumbled upon this miraculous magical map and he should let you out of the manor to pursue its mark in this unheard of land. And then you’d have to convince the Church not to burn you at the stake for witchcraft or heresy. Even if you somehow manage these two things, you better hope you’re not enslaved by Tatars on your way there, and god forbid you’re forced to hunt in some lord’s forest and kill some lord’s game when the little rations you’ve managed to buy with puny peasant rations run out. Did you look into this in the context of reality at all?
And to answer your question, I’d probably hire someone else to do it for me, since I’m probably quite wealthy and well connected if I have the privilege to go to a university in medieval times. I’d also keep the magical map thing very hush-hush because, again, the Church.
Petty aggression does not help your argument.
It was never stated outright, however it is made very clear that the tree which the Elements, the later Box, and most lately the Map is at least sentient and is the highest known authority in the show, if only by virtue of being the proxy of destiny. It tells the Princesses what to do, and they do it. Their use of the Elements are equivalent to the appeals of fantasy clerics to their gods.
If I lived in the Middle Ages, and magic was real; as opposed to our modern world where I can just check any map generator for information on the area, and have a dozen other ways to entertain myself? Sure. I wouldn’t know anything about Siberia at the time, and I would be immensely curious.
It’s easy to make judgment calls about how bad a decision is from so far outside the sidelines we can barely see the game. Imagine if you lived in a world where you were one of the most educated people in it, and you found a gap in your knowledge of geography, revealed to you by something that seemed to be linked to your very identity. Wouldn’t you want to go look?
Naive and sheltered by plot armor, more like.
I don’t remember when it was stated that the Elements of Harmony were a single conscious mind and being with a higher station than Celestia, herself, despite Celestia using them as tools at her own whims.
Hazard, indeed. If a neon-lit map popping up in your living room from out of nowhere told you to go to a specific spot the middle of Siberia, would you pack up and leave without the slightest examination of what is probably there in the first place? Sounds like a good way to get lost and freeze to death.
You seem to be confused on some core components of this show’s mythology. Let me help you with that.
Because she is inquisitive, and barring that, it seemed likely that the map would have plagued her and her friends with annoying butt vibrations until she obeyed.
Because the map, being the evolved form of the Elements of Harmony, holds a higher authority and power than the Princesses.
Given that these events happened in the same episode as the map’s initial formation, I would hazard that that was exactly what she was doing.
And, Glimmer is only 1/12th of her “muscle’… (i.e. in the SW-vers there were 12 Grand Moffs).
WHAT IF GETTING CAUGHT WAS PART OF HER PLAN?
Sounds like the wind-up to Nightmare Star to me… And I for one welcome our glorious emperess!
Touché.
Why would a Princess follow the pointless directions of a pointless magic map that points to places in the middle of nowhere? Why would such a thing even be present in the holding of a government figure when it would be better suited to a novelty store? Surely, the ever so studious and quizzical Twilight Sparkle would have taken the time to verify that this map is a piece of useless junk that sends her on dangerous, pointless quests.
Why? It would mean your performance as a leader is equivalent to your citizens’ performance in their respective roles absent their talents.
Probably because it was a random magic map and not Celestia’s foreign policy that drew Twilight and Co to said tiny communities?
I’d be ambitious too if all I had to show for my leadership and worldview was a puny do-nothing city-state in the middle of nowhere.
Which leads me to question how Equestria’s foreign policy can be so skewed that it puts oddly specific emphasis on tiny communities that couldn’t possibly affect Equestrian interests but apparently oblivious to a massive army of changelings that all want to storm the capitol.
If she wasn’t bound by ambition, she would have removed her own once her entire town had theirs removed. But she wanted more. A forcibly-leveled society allows only those doing the forcing to the top.
If she removed her own cutie mark, then she couldn’t remove anyone else’s. Pragmatism sometimes gets in the way of ideological purity. This point is intuitive and has already been made ad nauseum, so I don’t feel the need to elaborate.
Yes. There is also something to the effect of “the highest stem gets trimmed”. One of Starlight’s failures is not understanding that when applying this kind of philosophy, it also applies to her.