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Mr.Myoozik

Music/Charts Enthusiast

😯

Posted about a year ago Report

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Jonny Manz

I am who I am

@NicoThePinkUnicorn
Just a couple quick responses - like I said, I think Sunny will be more prominent again going forward, because they understood her character, and without something big to drive her forward, she’ll instead focus on smaller things to improve life for everypony, because she is still an idealist, an optimist at heart. I think they understood that it would be unnecessary to shove her center stage each time (something that FiM did eventually figure out with Twilight, but not for a while, as for the first couple seasons, it seemed like they would insert her into just about every episode, even if there really wasn’t a need for her there).

There’s also the fact that Sunny has agency (like, what she does, she chooses to do of her own will), while essentially every major thing with Twilight boils down to “because Celestia told her to do so” at its core. (Except the school, but even that is taken from her in the end)

Also, I doubt that they changed anything to focus on Misty because of fan response - I’m pretty sure the scripts were completed a while ago and sent off to Atomic for production, and there is evidence that certain aspects were planned from the beginning (such as Alphabittle being Misty’s father - his early design makes it super obvious, or Opaline, being that her cutie mark appeared in the background in ANG).

But yeah, we should probably end it off here, lest a mod comes and scolds us for talking about things that are tangentially related to the image, at best, in its comments, haha

Posted about a year ago Report
Edited about a year ago because: Slight correction

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NicoThePinkUnicorn

Loving fan and shipper

@Jonny Manz
Yeah, and I don’t think Gillian has been doing a good job lol. Like it really doesn’t seem like she cares all that much about keeping up with continuity or consistency when it comes to G5’s content. I’m also asumming that she has no hand in Tell Your Tale, which further adds to it. Even just off of Chapter 1, which was written solely by her, things were already off. How do you write Hitch the way he was written in that chapter if you were THERE when the movie was made??

I completely disagree with the idea that G5 has a clear vision lol. Like even if its main show (for now…) is serialized, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s consistent with itself or with a vision. The biggest example of this is what I’m gonna dub The Main Character Tag

Sunny is, undoubtedly, the main character of the movie, and is the character pushed to be the main character of G5 in outside media (mostly the games and marketing.) She’s the one who pushes the narrative and makes things happen. She’s the most active character in the movie, and the movie is about her journey to bring every pony tribe together as her father inspired her to do when she was young. I’m certain that if the same writing team from the movie had stuck around, they would’ve kept Sunny a pro-active protagonist, because that’s how they designed her and designated her to be.

I don’t think any of the following media WANTS Sunny to be the protagonist, though. Every other piece of media has focused on another character. Tell Your Tale has favoritism for Pipp. The comics have given Izzy the most prominence, relevance, and the only real arc so far. Make Your Mark is even messier. It SEEMED to be aiming to be an ensemble show, though Zipp seemed to stand out the most as they designated her as the only character who’s allowed to give a shit about the plot, because she’s the detective. But now, Chapter 4 pushed MISTY to be the main character. And given how 95% of Chapter 5’s marketing has centered around her, and how Make Your Mark’s main storyline is more about her than it is about any of the character, it seems like she’s gonna be G5’s main character for good. It seems like the same thing that happened with Tell Your Tale is happening with Misty; the side thing ended up being more popular than the main thing (Make Your Mark/The Mane 5), so instead of trying to elevate the main thing to compensate (Give Make Your Mark a better release schedule or perhaps a Youtube alternative to catch the eye of the kiddies/Make the Mane 5 have more relevance and care for the main plot), they’re just gonna push the side thing to the forefront instead. And sure, unlike Tell Your Tale, I actually like Misty, but no one can say she was supposed to be the main character of G5 when she wasn’t even in its movie that’s supposed to anchor the following media.

FiM had its inconsistencies. It had unresolved plots, plots and characters that didn’t going anywhere. It juggled between being slice-of-life stories for friendship lessons or a more story and lore-driven narrative and it didn’t always do so smoothly. But I think as a whole it’s a lot more consistent than G5 has been, even just so far. And a big reason for that is that, no matter how many episodes where about other characters (and there were MANY), you never forgot that the show was about Twilight, and about her character arc and journey.

Moving onto Hitch’s characterization. I don’t think Chapter 1 Hitch is as bad as people say he is (Chapter 1 Hitch > Chapter 4 Hitch I swear to God), but he does come across as a lot more excitable than he is in the movie. I think it makes sense that he’d be happier than he is in the movie, in the sense that in the movie he was going through some rough challenges and dilemmas that were bound to make him tense. Having to threaten to cutt off his friendship with Sunny because of what a troublemaker she is and due to his role as the sheriff, then having her run off and thinking that he should arrest her in the name of justice, then spend the first half of the movie’s journey not being listened to. None of this is gonna show him in a positive mood. I did figure that, without these circumstances and with 3 new friends, he’d be happier the next time we’d see him. But in Chapter 1 he sometimes sounds like Pinkie Pie in how excitable he is.
Then, Sunny Side Up. If they placed the focus solely on him worrying that he’s gonna have to do something he’s bad at for all to see, that’d be fine. But they make Hitch say that he’s a “not an in the spotlight” pony and literally say he has “stage fright” so, no, that’s not just what’s going on. They also make him act even more socially awkward than Misty which is inexcusable. I could see Movie Hitch worry about having to do something he’s bad at for all to see, but I’m pretty sure he’d do a far better job controlling and hiding his nerves, especially since he’d probably be all over being on camera otherwise.

If stuff like this is happening because of a tragedy then, that’s terrible, and of course there is nothing anyone can do about that. I still can’t help but to think that the What Might Have Been must’ve been better and more in-line with what I and many other fans expected out of G5, though.

I’m not gonna comment much on your arguments about liking Tell Your Tale because really, all I can say is agree to disagree, you’re totally free to like what you like. I also happen to be the one asshole that didn’t like Chapter 4 so again, agree to disagree, and my comment has been long enough already lol

Posted about a year ago Report

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OneAmongOthers

@Jonny Manz
Yeah I can see where you are going with this. Maybe its just me again overthinking things. Again I keep trying to tell myself this is a show for children, and that I should stop looking into to it as much as I do. Still even though I agree with you that Tell Your Tale is just the slice of life nonsense that just doesn’t take itself seriously, I still feel its just overly childish and silly. Make Your Mark grew on me because of just how much the CG animation makes the characters feel much more alive and natural. It’s the first time they have done it, and it just feels so much better. The 2d stuff just doesn’t do it for me.

Posted about a year ago Report

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Jonny Manz

I am who I am

@NicoThePinkUnicorn
I mean, Gillian Berrow was one of the scriptwriters for the movie, and she has helmed MYM as head writer from the beginning.

I’ll crib from a comment I left a little while back, because I’m feeling lazy:

Personally, I like how it feels everything has been carefully planned out (at least as far as the CG stuff goes), and anything that gets brought up is followed through on, as opposed to G4, which would introduce things haphazardly, and then not really do anything with them (though the exceptions were always appreciated).

It feels like there’s a solid vision of what G5 is, and what it’s trying to accomplish, and I don’t really get that feeling with G4 (except in the absolute broadest sense) - though I don’t blame it too much, considering it changed showrunners at least 3 times (Faust, McCarthy, Haber) whereas Gillian Berrow has been helming G5 from the beginning. FWIW, McCarthy’s vision was generally my favorite (corresponding to seasons 3, 4, & 5)

I also disagree that G5 has already peaked - I feel like Chapter 4 was on the level of the movie (or if not, it was close), and am excited, based on the content that has been released so far, to see what Chapter 5 has in store.

As far as TYT goes, I enjoy it for what it is - nice slices of 5 minute pony content, that sometimes helps explore things or introduce concepts, and is sometimes just a more sane Pony Life (which I also liked - I liked how it didn’t take itself seriously and totally took the piss as far as characterization goes).

Also, the Hitch examples, I dunno - thinking about it, I feel like he was excited in Ch 1 because he loves Maretime Bay Day and all the festivities that go on, and was just going off of Sunny’s energy, while in Sunny Side Up he was nervous because he would be making smoothies alongside Sunny (the smoothie master), and he’d had a rough go of it the last time he’d attempted that.

@OneAmongOthers
@NicoThePinkUnicorn
I don’t have anything to back this up, but I kinda wonder if production for MYM getting outsourced to Atomic was because by the point that was decided on, Brian Goldner had already started stepping back a bit due to whatever he was suffering from, and so couldn’t put his finger on the scale to making it an in-house production.

Whatever the case, I feel pretty certain that Hasbro selling Boulder (and later EOne) was due to his death, as I’ve read before that it was his idea to push for the acquisition of Boulder (and EOne), in order to make Hasbro a media production facility as well, producing stuff for their properties in-house instead of outsourcing, and that the new vision is for Hasbro to pare back to their roots of focusing on toys.

Like, it would not surprise me if the board was generally opposed to his vision, and upon his death they acted to put someone in there that would more see things their way, or something like that - or perhaps they didn’t have his boldness, and without him, they got cold feet about expanding beyond their core area.

@OneAmongOthers
I mean, I never said I thought her characterization was better than in the movie - but nor do I think it’s worse. I think it is consistent with her movie characterization, and there’s a logical through line of progression:

In ANG, she is an idealistic dreamer, who wishes to reunite the three pony races, like it was in the past, partially because she thinks it would be cool to have friends with different powers, and partially to honor her father. It is this drive that drives the movie forward - but also makes Sunny only focused on the big picture throughout large portions.

Then, in MYM, magic has returned and Sunny is an Alicorn, though unable to control it at first (as an aside, I think it’s that stress that causes her to be in denial at first when Zipp tells her about the glitching magic). Since there is no super big cause to throw her energy into (like reuniting the 3 races) she focuses more on smaller things, like trying to get Maretime Bay to eat healthier, or opening the community garden to make use of the Earth pony magic. It is at this point that she realizes what it entails being an Alicorn: not just controlling the powers, but also the expectations placed upon her as such.

The discovery of Opaline provides the final piece - the impetus for her to really get serious about that, and in doing so gives her another big purpose (probably the first one since the movie) - as such, I expect her to become more prominent again in Chapters 5 and 6.

After all, as the movie aptly showed, she’s about big picture, reaching the destination whenever some big cause has been laid out in front of her, while her friends (especially Izzy, and Pipp to a lesser extent) can help her to slow down when need be, and appreciate the journey along the way.

Hitch - I honestly felt he was kind of high on his own fumes in the movie, that he had pushed his bravado to such an absurd extent that even he was fooled by it. Then, the shock of magic returning, and realizing how many fundamental things he had taken as absolute truth were wrong, really sent him reeling and reevaluating things. That’s why I can understand, say, him being spooked in Top Remodel, though I won’t try and argue that such a thing is 100% in-character.

I also made a post kinda related to this on the G5 forum, and because I’m lazy, here comes a copy-paste:
@Jonny Manz

Y’know, thinking back over it, I think Sunny being a total in-universe pegasister (as is the popular fanon of her) is a bit of a misread of her character. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I think she’s interested in the past, but I think it’s more because her dad was interested in it, and in doing so, she feels closer to him. That’s why she doesn’t constantly think about it - she mostly thinks about it in relation to memories of her dad.

She was more of an idealist, who, upon learning of Equestria’s history, just mostly wanted to bring the races together (plus I also think those ideas she had at a young age, of it being cool to have friends who could fly or levitate things, played a role in her subconscious).

Plus, now she’s an Alicorn, trying to figure out what she needs to do, what is expected of her, and if she can live up to that. I feel like that keeps her busy a lot of the time.

It makes sense Zipp is after the truth of the history, as she was always after the truth, even back in Zephyr Heights.

Posted about a year ago Report

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NicoThePinkUnicorn

Loving fan and shipper

@OneAmongOthers
I definitely don’t think that was the right call. I mean, it’s the equivalent of a show getting a completely different writing team after the first episode, ‘cause A New Generation is basically Generation 5’s first episode. It’s no wonder so little of G5 has felt like a proper continuation to the movie.

Posted about a year ago Report

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OneAmongOthers

@NicoThePinkUnicorn
Well they didn’t come back because Hasbro shafted them and shifted the production of Make your Mark to a studio called Atomic. Originally it was planned that the studio (Boulder Media), was also going to be producing the show, but Hasbro pulled the rug out from under them in favor of Atomic. Apparently they were not happy about it either, but Hasbro has since sold off Boulder Media so it doesn’t really matter anymore. Water under the bridge as is said.

Posted about a year ago Report
Edited about a year ago

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NicoThePinkUnicorn

Loving fan and shipper

@OneAmongOthers
Yeah there’s been plenty of instances that showcase that he’s never had stage fright before, as early as his very first scene in Chapter 1, where he’s uber-excited in the livestream advertising Maretime Bay Day. His FIRST scene in Make Your Mark contradicts that plot point lmao

Yeah, it’s a huge shame that G5 peaked so early. Though it’s also a shame that the movie’s writing staff didn’t come back at all for the rest of generation, let alone left any plans for it.

Nah I completely agree, I also can’t stand Tell Your Tale and a lot of its writing comes across as very degrading. There’s a way to be childish without being poorly-written, and Tell Your Tale is very poorly written in my eyes.

Posted about a year ago Report

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OneAmongOthers

@NicoThePinkUnicorn
Yeah I see where you are going and I agree. The episode Top Remodel didn’t make sense either with a lot of things. Also I can see where you are going with the episode Sunny Side Up and Hitches sudden stage fright even though he was perfectly fine with being in front of a crowd of ponies in chapter 2. I guess he kinda came off a little whiney in the second chapter. As a whole the series hasn’t really reached the heights the movie did with storytelling yet. It’s kinda getting there now somewhat, but it seems Hasbro is just giving up on it and just sticking with Tell your Tale. Which I just can’t stand with how childish and silly it is.

I mean I know its a show for kids (not for people my age I get that), and I am probably overthinking this too much, but coming off FiM it just felt that even though it was a kids show at heart it still pushed that to a more well… mature and family friendly over very childish shorts like TYT is doing.

Posted about a year ago Report
Edited about a year ago

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NicoThePinkUnicorn

Loving fan and shipper

@OneAmongOthers
I completely disagree, I think his character is much worse in Chapter 4 than it is in Chapter 2. At least in Chapter 2, when he’s given fears and vulnerabilities, they make sense with his character. Chapter 2 is very well aware that Hitch is a character who is driven by his desire to protect others. When he’s scared of the dangers of earth pony magic, or that Sparky is missing, that’s where his fears are coming from. His vulnerabilities strengthen his character rather than weaken it.

When he’s scared in Chapter 4, he’s flat-out written as a scaredy cat, for no other reason other than comedy, or just a baffling misunderstanding of his character. Instead of his fears making more sense with how he was characterized in the movie, they make LESS sense. I have an easier time believing that Hitch would be scared of Maretime Bay being in danger with the unstableness of earth pony magic, than by a spooooooooky abandoned factory, or suddenly having stage fright and camera shyness even though he’s shown no sign of this beforehand.

Posted about a year ago Report
Edited about a year ago

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OneAmongOthers

@NicoThePinkUnicorn
I dunno… maybe its just me, but he just feels off from the movie. I will say that in later chapters his character does get better, but then again so does everyone else pretty much. Also I don’t mean to say its the caliber as the movie. It does get some really good vibes. Such as later after Sunny’s speech and Hitch reacting to that and him getting over his stage fright. Still in earlier episodes he just comes off as clumsy and a goof. I didn’t mean to really single out Sunny Side Up to be honest. It’s just the one that first came to mind.

Posted about a year ago Report

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NicoThePinkUnicorn

Loving fan and shipper

@OneAmongOthers
I find it questionable how you say Hitch lost his confidence and bravado, yet single out Sunny Side Up as an amazing episode that’s to the caliber of the movie. I don’t think anything shows Hitch loosing his confidence and bravado than suddenly being given stage fright and camera shyness, like he’s early season Fluttershy and not his own individual character.

Posted about a year ago Report

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OneAmongOthers

@Jonny Manz
I just can’t see how you think Sunny’s character writing for the show has been any better for the show from the movie. I mean yeah… I can see Zipp and Pipp’s character’s growing because they had little to none of it in the movie (it was clear that Sunny and Izzy were the focus). Hitch has been just so bad. I mean all that confidence and bravado he had in the movie is all but gone in the show itself. Sunny is not good either. She has gone from that really inspiring, hopeful and driven character she showed in the movie to just forgetting almost everything in Make Your Mark. Literally no mention of her fathers work or her own work. Her journal is also pretty much forgotten. Sure she has some bits here and there of inspiration, but it comes off as flat and silly. Otherwise they got her doing silly nonsensical things. Also she is straight up dismissive a lot of times of Zipp’s concerns of so many things.

I mean its just silly that her journal is mention in that baby time adventure show that is Tell your Tale, but not once in Make your Mark? But hey I am interested in how you feel the writing has gotten better. I am not saying that Make your Mark has been a total shit show. Chapter four really has shined and some episodes (like Sunny side up), are just amazing and really give me those ANG movie vibes. Some of the writing and conversations the characters have just feel so natural and good. Again how it felt in ANG.

Posted about a year ago Report

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Jonny Manz

I am who I am

@OneAmongOthers
I tend to disagree about the character writing, especially in MYM - I feel that’s always been a strong point of G5. The storytelling - I can see why people wouldn’t like it, as it definitely slows down after the movie (at least for Chapter 1 and the first half of Chapter 2), but it does feel like it’s working towards a planned out end point, which I appreciate.

I wonder how people would have felt about the Bridlewoodstock special had the original plan been implemented (that is, had Chapter 4 been released in April with 7 episodes, and then Bridlewoodstock been released on its own as Chapter 5 on June 6th) - would they have been more forgiving due to the distance between it and the rest of Chapter 4? Or would it stand out further how it’s somewhat dull?

Posted about a year ago Report

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Background Pony #1A7A

Oh shoot

Posted about a year ago Report

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OneAmongOthers

@Background Pony #1A7A
Yeah… the story telling was somewhat meh I agree. But then again neither MYM or TYT has really been any good in terms of storytelling or character development. The only redeeming thing Is at least I like that they took MLP into 3d animation. It just feels so much more alive and natural over 2d animation.

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