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Description
twi: oh yeah, I have another student, right?
Source
not provided yet
your current filter.“What the–? Who in Tartarus keeps on sending me these letters?! STARLIGHT! You better not be using my journals for communicating with those damn sirens agian! I swear, if you even dare talk to anyone from another dimension, you’re in B.T.: big trouble!!”
I in no way meant to imply that it was a bad thing. I actually find it rather interesting. Plus, it helps provide some contrast between her and Twilight, and makes her different enough that she can stand on her own. (Not all of Fim/EqG’s “counterpart” characters get that luxury. Lightning Dust, for example, really doesn’t carry much significance other than how she compares to Rainbow Dash.)
Eh, neither? Just didn’t think it was any problem.
Is triple quotes really necessary? Or you just want to boost your post’s size?
Arguably another reason to love her. She certainly played the mentor/good sister role pretty well during Legend of Everfree. It does worry me a bit that she may be growing stagnant, i.e., that the writers might have no more ideas as to how to develop or challenge her, but we’ll, we’ll have to wait ’til the EqG specials for that.
I misunderstood you then, I thought it was the old “Celestia gets her ass kicked all the time” thing. Yeah, I admit Cadance could use a little more depth (and at times I worry she might actually be losing a bit of her depth, or at least isn’t getting chances to show off the character traits that have been established for her).
@Alexlayer
I can see where you’re coming from, but in all fairness, Starlight hasn’t been around as long as Fluttershy, so it’s entirely possible they might do a better job of showing the facets of her personality in upcoming seasons. I sure hope so.
@Alexlayer
I actually feel like Sunset may have even surpassed Twilight in a few regards. She actually seems to be a better mentor than Twilight, for starters, which feels a little ironic to me.
Eh… kinda? I mean, I don’t hate Cadence or anything, but she often feels more like a tool to the narrative than a fully fleshed out character.
Yeah, that’s a good point you’re making. In a way, it feels like they’re doing with Starlight one of the same mistakes I felt was done with Fluttershy: Too many episodes about them dealing with the same issues. Don’t get me wrong, I love Fluttershy, but I’m so glad that nowadays we have episodes like “Flutter Brutter” and “Viva Las Pegasus”, which explore Fluttershy in different ways, rather than so many that feel a lot like retellings of “Dragonshy” or “Hurricane Fluttershy.” The ones in Season 5 were also more fresh, but the ones in Season 6 felt like more properly executed versions of them. Again, Starlight needs to become something more than a pity party for her anxiety, social insecurities and so on…
Which brings me back to what I said in another comment: Sunset is NOT her student and never was. She’s her friend. Yes, she writes letters to Twilight in a way that feels reminicent to Twilight’s letter to Celestia, but she never addresses herself as “Your student”, just as “Your Friend.” I’d even argue that, while the fandom has a total of four characters that are considered counterparts to Twilight (Trixie, Sunset Shimmer, Moondancer and Starlight), Sunset is the ONLY one that feels like Twilight’s true equal. Similar backstory as Celestia’s student, their names are pretty much synonims of one another, they both have their own “Mane 5” of their own and actually have some interaction with them (which I’d previously argue that Starlight was in desperate need of, but seeing as she’s now being given her own group of friends, I’ll take that instead if there’s the chance (assuming we MUST have to deal with more of her…), anyway, back to Sunset) and more recently, Friendship Games ends with Sunset pulling out an equivalent to the first use of the Elements of Harmony back in “Friendship is Magic, part 2”, recognizing her friends’ power and gathering their magic to save the day, in a battle that - for crying out loud - is pretty much a re-enactment of the battle between Celestia and Nightmare Moon (I mean, DAYdream Shimmer VS MidNIGHT Sparkle!”) but with a happier ending!!!
Good lord I love Friendship Games…
“She has a Dark and Troubled Past.”
I’ll give you this one, but that fact alone does not prove she is a Mary Sue.
“Her skills will generally be inexplicable and poorly defined. Many of them may play no role in the plot, not even as a Required Secondary Power; they’re introduced solely to make the character seem even more awesome. “
We might not know exactly where or how her skills originated, but as somepony who has lived most her life relying on magic and has magic as part of her special talent, Starlight’s magical abilities are an integral part of her character and play a significant role in her development.
“She will always be better than the canon characters, regardless of what canon has established they can do or whether it makes any sense. Her powers will often be similar to those of the existing characters, only with all the downsides and limitations removed. If the characters need a new skill, she’ll often already have it. And if she does need to learn it, she’ll pick it up in no time. It’s especially common with a God-Mode Sue. “
Is really that hard to believe there are other powerful unicorns out there in the world of Equestria besides Twilight? More importantly, though, that only applies to the field of magic; As we’ve seen in season 6, Starlight starts off with almost no friendship skills and her attempts to learn them were anything but effortless or a breeze. Not to mention that none of the mane six seemed to be suffering from any crippling self-confidence issues.
“the color purple is also popular, partly because it helps her stand out and partly because it stands for particularly exotic traits”
A color palette alone–or any superficial trait, for that matter–is not enough justify her as a Mary Sue.
“Most characters give her more heed than they normally would.”
Starlight is an individual with emotional stability issues that tried to forcibly manipulate the lifestyles of others at one time and then nearly destroyed the world owing to negligence and lack of foresight at another. I would honestly be surprised if the mane six didn’t pay more attention to her than the average pony.
“She will get special treatment in-universe; anything the canon characters would have to fight for or earn, she just gets automatically. The classic example is the 16-year-old American Harry Potter “exchange student” who goes to Hogwarts, is immediately given a spot on the Quidditch team, and doesn’t have to wear the uniform.”
Although she now seems to have been placed on the fast track, Starlight was never handed anything automatically, aside from (seemingly) free room & board at Twilight’s castle and the opportunity to work for a better life and become a better pony. Everything she has now–friends, social skills, self-confidence, etc.–she had to put in her all to earn it.
Edited
>more available on request
sure
Let’s look at Common Mary Sue traits and see how many winners we have
“She has a Dark and Troubled Past.”
Check!
“Her skills will generally be inexplicable and poorly defined. Many of them may play no role in the plot, not even as a Required Secondary Power; they’re introduced solely to make the character seem even more awesome. “
Check!
“She will always be better than the canon characters, regardless of what canon has established they can do or whether it makes any sense. Her powers will often be similar to those of the existing characters, only with all the downsides and limitations removed. If the characters need a new skill, she’ll often already have it. And if she does need to learn it, she’ll pick it up in no time. It’s especially common with a God-Mode Sue. “
Duels ALICORN ELEMENT OF MAGIC to a standstill regualurly with only an off hand (hoof) “I studied a lot” justification.
CHECK
“the color purple is also popular, partly because it helps her stand out and partly because it stands for particularly exotic traits”
Check
“Most characters give her more heed than they normally would.”
Check
“She will get special treatment in-universe; anything the canon characters would have to fight for or earn, she just gets automatically. The classic example is the 16-year-old American Harry Potter “exchange student” who goes to Hogwarts, is immediately given a spot on the Quidditch team, and doesn’t have to wear the uniform. “
Check
more available on request
Edited
“@Alexlayer
Hey, don’t knock Cadance, she pulled her weight against Chrysalis and Sombra. But…
@Alexlayer
This, I have to agree with you about, but it also helps that she’s continued to grow in the two movies that followed. Once everyone else had forgiven her, she still struggled with forgiving herself through Friendship Games, before finally becoming something of a mentor figure during Legend of Everfree. Starlight hasn’t really made much progress by comparison, even allowing for her later start.
I suspect it’s been a long time since Twilight thought of Sunset Shimmer as a student. And even back in Rainbow Rocks, Twilight’s relationship with Sunset was very different than the one she would develop with Starlight. Most significantly, I don’t think she ever acted as though she had any authority over Sunset. The kitchen scene, in particular, shows Twilight putting a great deal of trust in Sunset; the end of that scene gives me the impression that rather than trying to guide her, Twilight was about to turn to Sunset for answers before stopping herself and trying to shoulder the burden alone.
There is no such thing as a Mary Sue litmus test. It wouldn’t matter anyway; she doesn’t even fit the criteria of a Mary Sue.
When Starlight can actually pass a Mary Sue litmus test
@whitestar60
When will you finally realize that no character in gen 4 of MLP, not even Sunset or Starlight, is a Mary Sue?
Edited
No. No it’s not, because you’re nothing but a godawful Mary Sue made for a shitty spin-off DTV series that gets worse with each installment. You’re staying there, and thankfully you’re not touching the main series.
Take out the spinoff parts and replace with main show and you’ve got my feeling on Starlight.
Edited
Arguably so. Honestly, while I don’t wanna sound harsh, I can’t help feeling that he’s lacking in some aspects. Like some of the MLP reviewers pointed out, during “The Crystalling”, Starlight feels a lot like Sunset Shimmer because they’re given a lot of similar tropes (constant regret over past mistakes, hesitant to speak up around others, finding the solution to the problem during the last moments), but this shows a lack of understanding on what made Sunset’s redemption work, whereas Starlight didn’t.
Case in point, check the differences in their circunstances: Sunset got BLASTED by the Elements of Harmony and if judging by her appearence after that is any clue, that was FAR from a pleasent experience, and on top of that, she’s then left to endure the hardship of an enviorment that resents her deeply, whereas even her five friends only keep her at arm’s lenght.
Starlight, meanwhile, got away with no punishment whatsoever, was inmediately befriended by just about everyone, and was given a place to live in, and a priviliged position as Twilight’s student.
You can already tell there’s some differences that, when taken into account, makes it clear someone had it much easier than the other, but then there’s a far more important element: Their attitude about it.
See, despite Sunset’s difficult circunstances during Rainbow Rocks, she was established early on as wanting to make a change, show herself a new person, get new people to know the “new her” before they’d judge her by the “past her”, and she never once stopped doing everything she could to help the Rainbooms, even when they were being ungrateful towards her. She had all the odds set in favor of snapping back into villany, and yet she endured to be the best possible version of herself. This struggle and virtue are the reasons as to why so many people fell in love with her during Rainbow Rocks.
Starligth, in comparison, has yet to make any attemps on her own free will to make amends or change for the better. On top of that, while I’d argue that the idea of Twilight giving her “Friendship Lessons” is… dubious at best, Starlight’s attitude against them clearly doesn’t help. She keeps trying to avoid making amends with Sunburst during The Crystalling, and as “Every Little Thing She does” demostrates, she kept and kept doing that. I’d personally need to see some evidence of Starlight wanting to be a better pony for me to start rooting for her, rather than just wallowing in self doubt and anxiety to get people to feel sorry for her.
So yeah, like I said in another comment on another pic: Starlight’s hate is only gonna stop (for the most part, at least) when she’s finally written proper. Until then, as far as I’m concerned, the least she shows up, the better.
But at least you’re not in the same place as the Humane 5.
What you described for Twilight is more examples of Haber’s bad writing which isn’t surprising since he also turned a competent, smooth talking and manipulative villain into a protagonist that, from scene to scene, ranges from hyper sensitive to complete obliviousness in interacting with others. He also wrote her as “so anxious and afraid of hurting others” but has no problem growing her magical powers and throwing them around haphazardly anyways. “Inconsistent” is the nicest way to describe this.
Imagine if this is what Sombra’s redemption would look like? People would flip their shit.
I would give Haber credit for making a sociopathic character if I had confidence it wasn’t just a mistake. But since he got other characters completely wrong I doubt this was intentional. Like Twilight somehow giving a crap about Trixie since the last time they met was Magic Duel which pretty much Twilgiht fooled Trixie good and forgave her in the end anyways.
It sounds like to me that you don’t really know Twilight at all.
@Background Pony #B540
…you two are “special,” aren’t you?
@Background Pony #B540
Heh, now it makes me think that Twilight’s calling this off not because Starlight’s so much as “Graduated” but rather that she’s going “Sweet Celestia, this was a terrible idea and the sooner I call it off the sooner we’re off the hook whatever mess this project’s making next.”
That, and she probably realized that being in the mentor role apparently means she’s now as useless as Cadence, Luna and Celestia when it comes to facing the big threats in modern day. XD
i mostly agree, but i think making twilight (or anyone for that matter) teach FRIENDSHIP is a stupid idea to begin with. she’s actually a parole officer