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+-SH safe2181430 +-SH artist:dragonfoxgirl420 +-SH rainbow dash280928 +-SH zephyr breeze3007 +-SH pony1609915 +-SH flutter brutter1241 +-SH g42037700 +-SH annoyed7283 +-SH blushing275623 +-SH chest fluff66053 +-SH cute266833 +-SH female1810429 +-SH floppy ears73280 +-SH looking at each other34593 +-SH male553184 +-SH mare745950 +-SH ship:zephdash349 +-SH shipping255190 +-SH simple background600236 +-SH sitting92937 +-SH smiling399662 +-SH stallion196843 +-SH straight179898 +-SH transparent background285580 +-SH tsunderainbow524 +-SH tsundere3478 +-SH watermark24232
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To be fair, like Trixie he does “get better at the end.”
hey, at least Trixie does something, and has a much better work ethic than this guy.
Meanwhile, Trixie is also very self-centered, and rude too, but everyone loves her.
(Admittedly, I kinda liked her better then Zeph too. She seemed to have a vulnerable side in “Second Prances” despite her passive-aggressive moments.)
I’m not sure how I feel how feel about your reply conveniently skipping the part where I pointed out those pics were examples of false affection to garner sympathy. Not even disagreeing, you just pretended I didn’t point out the problem.
Nor do I know how to feel about you not explaining how this comparison makes them more then 1% similar.
Nearly half the characters on the show use false bravado sometimes to not appear a failure. Aj. Twilight. Rarity. Discord. The list goes on. Your completely missing the point, the connection is “simple”, in your own words, because its so generic. Haven’t you heard of the expression ‘Everyone’s got something to hide”? So many of the characters have used false bravado to not want to be seen as a failure. Its something humans do on a regular basis; we don’t express every weakness and insecurity we are feeling 24/7 to everyone around us, it would make our lives insanely awkward, so we bluff. Most in just minor ways, some major. The most one can say they are similar is that they are very expressive with their bluffs then the average person. Beyond that, their personality and morals are nothing in common.
Since I fear were not going to find any understanding between us, let’s just agree to disagree. :)
Now that doesn’t mean they have the same responses to this motivating emotion. Rainbow chooses action, Zephyr elects to quit. But the fact that they respond differently does not change the fact that the motivation for what they do still stems from the same source, a desire not to appear like a failure in front of others.
No thanks. I’d rather agree to disagree. :)
I agree with you on one thing: This discussion was stupid and pointless. For the rest, fill in what you like.
Edited
@Background Pony #B1E0
All I have to say is that I agree with you guys; Dash and Zephyr are more alike than people think. They’re not 100% the same, of course, but there are some major similarities.
Disregarding how incredibly insane a stretch you are making to actually claim in any regard they have the ‘exact same motivation’….
I have no idea what kind of perspective you were watching from when you posted those pics. Those were examples of fake affection to garner sympathy.
Nearly every Happy Madison or David Spade film and thousands of other films has characters just like him who have no motivational-based affection-based motivations for being friendly.
Judging by the numerous amounts of people outside of you and Starswirled who see this, statistically there are going to be some people who simply don’t recognize those character tropes….
Again, like I said before, its like comparing every David Spade character, easiest example Kuzco, to Marvel’s Thor. Just because they are narcissistic when joyous or angry, it doesn’t mean they are even the slightest bit similar.
…
I just realized that this conversation is entirely pointless and stupid. The both of you are trying to argue that two characters are at MOST 1% similar, which could be done in a different context to anyone and anything. Its fruitless and even if it was true, it wouldn’t create even the slightest parallel or reliability for the lesser character in any extent due to the enormously drastic differences in every other aspect of their personalities.
@CronoM
your current filter.
your current filter.And second of all, though Rainbow Dash often comes through in the end because loyalty to her friends overcomes her selfish desire to not appear a failure, there are also times she has to have this deliberately pointed out to her. It is a credit to how she has developed as a character that she is getting better at realizing when her self serving narcissism is interfering with what she ought to be doing, but it is still an issue she struggles with at times. It does not mean she doesn’t care though, any more than it does for Zephyr.
We already covered that they both used narcissism to cover their insecurities, but you forget that their inner goals and personality reasons for doing so are completely different. The number of trope characters that do so are pretty large, and RD and Zeph are on completely opposite spectrums.
“and the result of that act can make him appear unfeeling towards them, despite the fact that he clearly does have affection for them”
Wait what? That’s a pretty big assumption with nothing in-show to back that up. Dash always folds in the end in showing how much she cares. Zephyr is a douche, his feelings for others, in success, potential success, or failure, are always surpassed by his concern for himself.
Further separating his personality drastically from RD’s, he uses false concern to get what he wants for people whom he should have real concern for, of which we see very little.
….
On a scaled of 1 to 5 Kuzcos in terms of growth, of which 1 would be Kuzco at the beginning of the Emporor’s New Groove, and 5 would be Kuzco at the end of Emporor’s New Groove, Zephyr gets as far as a 2, maybe a 3. A little more responsible, but nothing groundbreaking when it comes to his lack of concern for for others, which is basically set to tepid at best.
To be perfectly fair, you admitted you didn’t care about part of my argument first. The only reason I got that impression, that you ‘hate other’s opinion’ is that you literally stated it regarding at least part of my argument. Or at least weren’t interested in learning about part of my opinion. Same difference in the long run.
See ya.
I likewise have no further interest in this. Especially after you dismissed everything I could say with that “you hate other’s opinion” bit. Bah. Enjoy, I guess.
Edited
I don’t believe, however, that in Zephyr’s case this means he has some inability to care about anyone or anything but himself, anymore than it does for Rainbow. He is just trying to convince them he is fine like he does with everyone else, and the result of that act can make him appear unfeeling towards them, despite the fact that he clearly does have affection for them.
“vented her achievements and her frustrations through her narcissism”
I’m not going argue something further in your argument that has already been explained to you prior. That would be pointless. I chose my words very carefully. If I hadn’t put in the word ‘achievenments’, since she’s not one to portray herself as a goody-two shoes while wanting to be a hero like she admitted she was trying to be at the end of that episode…your counter argument might have meant something.
Instead, you ignored my wording and shaped your argument out of pure bias. Classy.
If you don’t care and are not interested in understanding character personalities and character tropes, then why are you even arguing? You have no motivation to listen to other people’s perspectives or arguments about the characters.
Hell, you just admitted that you didn’t want to understand part of my argument, even though it would of allowed you to understand my perspective better.
You know this is just going to turn into unnecessary drama after you gave that callous and pride-in-ignorance remark (“I don’t know who David Spade is and I don’t care”), so lets just end this here. I don’t hate your remarks as much as you hate other’s opinions, but I have no further desire to talk to you.
Let’s just agree to disagree.
I’m not reaching. They both use narcissism to deflect from their insecurities, especially when they’re scared of failing. That’s what I wanted to point out.
I don’t know who David Spade is and I don’t care.
As for Rainbow’s goal only being helping others… No. That’s not true. Mare-Do-Well saw her transform into a pony obsessed first and foremost with praise. She literally patted herself on the back when nopony else was around because she needed the appreciation and waited to save a pony falling to her death because she was too busy signing autographs. And when the town celebrated Mare-Do-Well, she decided they all had to be wrong because Rainbow Dash is too awesome not to deserve all the praise to herself.
Edited
What are you talking about????
Even in the episodes you referenced, her inner goal was to strive to achieve her dreams and help others, and she vented her achievements and her frustrations through her narcissism. Like I just said.
The goal of Zephyr’s narcissism is to deflect on others and avoid all responsibility and effort. That’s the complete opposite motivation of Rainbow Dash.
Its pure reaching, dude. Their inner motivations and personality are 99% opposite. The only thing they have in common is that they talk highly of themselves.
Your comparing trope types of completely opposite spectrum using one similarity in a VERY misinterpreted context. Why? Do you honestly believe that Rainbow Dash’s personality is even remotely similar to David Spade pony?
That’s like saying that David Spade’s default movie character could be adapted into a good Thor for the Avengers.
Just because both talk highly of themselves when having fun or frustrated, it doesn’t mean they are even slightly similar.
Not always. Think Mysterious Mare-Do-Well, or Sonic Rainboom. She used it there to deflect blame on somepony else. Newbie Dash is a recent example.
Which is not to say they’re exactly the same. They do have some similarities. Rainbow is the more mature one, I don’t think anypony would argue against that. Give Zephyr more time, more experience with not thinking of himself as useless (and having others think of him as useless) and they’ll probably grow even closer in behaviour.
Not really when you think about it. People use narcissistic masks for VERY different reasons.
Rainbow Dash uses narcissism to cover up her insecurity for her nervousness about the possibility of not achieving her dreams and protecting her friends.
Zephyr uses narcissism to cover up his own lack of willpower and inability to care about anything but himself.
Neither is perfectly healthy, but Dash, especially early Dash, at least used narcissism to always move forward and look out for her friends without being an obvious goody-two shoes about it, which isn’t Dash’s style. She uses it to take on more responsibility. Zephyr uses narcissism to always walk backwards and think about number one, himself. He uses it to cast off all action and responsibility to others.
Narcissism doesn’t suddenly make them similar.
He is basically nearly every David Spade performance ever.
okay, no problem with that [keeps holding starburst]
Perfect reason to like that ship! In fact, I consider that one of the best reasons.
hmm… zephyr is clearly younger than RD and fluttershy. My God, you’re right Master Satrswirl! maybe someday when he returns he’ll be more mature and less narcisisticly annoying. However i still preffer soarindash y’know?
it reminds me of me and my GF and (thankfully) im not like zephyr
Edited
We’ve seen her family no more than a few seconds. Not much time to be an ass to them. Rainbow could be quite a jerk to her friends, though, especially during the early seasons. She’s gotten better; or, you could say, she’s gotten more mature.