The great GamerGate discussion. (Stuff and things)

@The Frowning Pony  
Is this what passes as discourse these days? “u mad lmao”?  
Look, crunch is a very bad thing for developers and it’s something that needs to be addressed, but it’s not something that’s exclusive to the video game nor the entertainment industry as a whole, anything that works with a schedule is likely to overwork their employees in order to meet a deadline, so dumping it on a place that discusses current trends in video gaming is not exactly the best place.  
Plus, the whole point behind this thread is discussing and cataloguing manipulation of themes and politics in gaming, and the consequences it has for the consumer and the producer. Saying we don’t care about the internal workings of the entertainment industry as a whole when we’re focusing in one specific thing is asinine.
 
This is not the thread for this kind of stuff, as it focus on a very specific point in the myriad of problems present in the current entertainment industry. You want somewhere to discuss it, make a thread for it and stop clogging this one with your idiotic commentary and provocations.

@Commune  
Then they shouldn’t be called games, should they? The Sims is literally a simulator, where the lose condition is death of your Sim. Also, Stanley Parable has multiple endings, which counts as a win/lose condition.
 
Just because they aren’t games, doesn’t mean they can’t be enjoyed. But at least label them right instead of bitching like an ass.
 
Games are like books. Just because The Sims is a good instruction manual, doesn’t mean it’s a bestselling novel.

Also, Beginner’s Guide as one of the best games of all time? Those mixed reviews and ratings say otherwise.

@Deserter  

Ayy lmao, what thread are you in? This place is just a thinly veiled a “whine about the SJWs” thread.
 
But let’s play along; if gamergate is about ethics in games journalism, then shouldn’t ethical journalists be covering important issues affecting the games industry over what race or gender a character is? Or do ethics not cover working conditions?
 
As if.

@The Frowning Pony  
Well yes, but you’re saying that like crunch is the only bad thing happening to game development, and act like not specifically focusing in that thing instead of the bigger picture is a bad thing.
 
And what, you’re gonna tell me SJWs are a good thing?

@Deserter  
No. But it’s certainly a thing that journalists should be covering, as journalists. Instead of being press-release reposters, free publicity (“my favourite X-game moments XD”), or clickbait.
 
And no; I’ve stated my position on the topic of SJWs too many times to tell over the past too many years. There’s however a point at which it becomes a self-feeding obsession to lash out and complain at anything remotely “SJW-like” that isn’t healthy, and it just makes people look bad.

@The Frowning Pony  
At least we agree there, I’m not gonna pretend game journalism never included personal opinions or shilling for whoever could spare a buck, but these days it feels like a glorified MySpace blog.

To announce my return to the site, I’d like to give a big shoutout to whoever felt it necessary to temp ban me for the entire duration of a break from the site I already announced that I was going to take. There was a death in a close friend’s family and dealing with with that shit takes both time and an emotional toll. But I’ve recovered, I’ve helped people recover, and I’m back to see…
 
@The Frowning Pony  

 
This.
 
Man, what an odd thing to post in a thread full of gamers critical of corrupt left-wing journalists and shitty business practices. It sure is odd to see a site moderator post such a blatant attempt at provocation. This isn’t an observation, it’s a childish insult. This “It’s funny how gamers fucking suck” post seems like something I’d read on r/Gamerghazi if I ever wandered into that left-wing circlejerk. It would probably get a few hundred upvotes on that subreddit. But here, it just looks incredibly out of place. Gee, it’s almost as if you’re just here because you’re looking for a fight. But hey, I won’t make that accusation. I don’t want yet another temp ban for pissing you off. My last temp ban claimed my “Your next line is” habit was something that I need to stop doing because… Well, because my temp ban message said so.
 
@The Frowning Pony  

 
Sigh. Look, it’s really not my place to police how you choose to act on this site. Or to remind you that a Site Moderator is supposed to be Moderate and keep discussions moderate, rather than derailing them as you’re trying to do. It’s probably not my place to suggest you find a thread full of posts that won’t make you so irrationally angry. So I’ll just focus on what you said to me after I got that temp ban. After all, you can’t fault me for continuing a discussion with you in its relevant thread, right? But if you want me to stop engaging you in honest conversation and expecting you to be honest, I’ll understand.
 
@The Frowning Pony
 
The Black And White Fallacy.
 
That’s the one you’re doing right now, in that post. It’s dishonest, it’s not okay, and you need to stop that if you’re going to turn things around and become a more honest person.
 
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/vb4cP2Tgv5g/U8burZIxvBI/AAAAAAAAJSQ/SxUet79SSQk/s1600/Logical+Fallacy+19++Black+Or+White.png
 
Ah, this old trick. Throwing around absurd non-sequitur imagination-land scenarios in an attempt to get someone to backtrack on a position you don’t want them to express
 
You can’t honestly argue against Free Speech as a fundamental human right, but you want to anyway, so you’re bringing up all the daft theoreticals you can think of. “What if someone plays really loud rap near you, and also wants to show off CP and ISIS beheadings!!!” you say.
 
Even though when left-wingers are in charge of sites like youtube, ISIS Beheadings stay up just like those Spiderman And Elsa videos and Finger Friends videos while conservative videos are censored, conservative channels are restricted by the algorithm, and big companies are allowed to file hundreds of false copyright strikes on small gamer/indie-journalist channels to silence them. What did it take for those Spiderman and Elsa videos to get taken down, again? If I remember rightly, someone had to try and cause a mini-adpocalypse before Youtube decided to take that part of its self-granted role as “The Good Censor” seriously.
 
I believe the left isn’t qualified to police the words and thoughts of others. If you want to be an effective liar, say “Well do you think the right is more qualified?!”. You’ve made this same “But what about baaaaad speeeeech?” non-argument what, four or five times in this mini-conversation you’ve been having with me? Though I hesitate to call it a conversation with how you’ve been acting thus far. I probably should have stopped talking to you when you openly refused to look at the evidence I presented on the Louder With Crowder matter, even though it proved I was right.
 
You know Noise laws exist, right? You do know… Fuck it, I don’t need to answer this or any of the other hypothetical scenario questions you made up. It’s a cheap trick. You don’t see me throwing theoreticals around, and that’s because I don’t have to construct imaginary scenarios in which I’m right and then quiz you on them in an effort to get you to relent on a position I don’t want you to express. I’m not the kind of person who does something like that. And if I was, I still wouldn’t do that because I just don’t need to. I’m right in reality, so why would I need to behave like a desperate liar running out of cheap tricks?
 
A person can be anti-ISIS, anti-CP/Beheading pics, and pro-The fundamental human right to speak out against petty, abusive, and aggressive tyrants without fear of punishment.
 
That’s what I do quite often, after all.
 
But if you want me to stop doing it on this site, just say the word and I’ll stop talking to you.

>thinking I respect you enough to read even a tenth of that
 
plz go back to the breitbart comment section and keep your “stupid leftists!” whineathon there.

@SilverStarApple7  
Pretty sure your DA journals are betraying how “irrationally angry” you are. For someone who was on a break from the internet for a death in the family, you seemed to find plenty of time to make three separate posts complaining over there about this site.
 
Also, not quite sure how you managed to say “drop the ‘If you won’t say I’m right on all issues you just don’t get the issues’ tone already, it’s dishonest.” with a straight face since that’s literally your entire schtick in every single engagement I’ve seen you have online. Perhaps, and this is just me spitballing here, but if you keep finding so many people who have to keep explaining things to you–for instance that context matters–you don’t actually understand them.

Right wing SJWs strike again, censoring comics  
Art Spiegelman pulled his Marvel Folio Society intro after Disney demanded that he not criticize Trump  

 
Comicgaters should be up in arms about this, r-right?

@dissociativity  
Normally, yes.  
Censorship goes both way.

@dissociativity  
Yeah, this shit goes both ways.

@Scrabbleman  

 
You clearly know nothing about it do you ?  
American Psycho also has polarized reviews when it first came out and it’s one of the best films ever made
 
@Scrabbleman  
What’s the difference between an ending and losing ?  
What if I wanted a particular ending ?  
That’s the thing, you can’t lose in the Stanley parable, there are only endings which you interpret yourself to what it means  
I don’t follow rigid definitions because they aren’t helpful  
A chair for example is what ?  
There is no singular definition of “a chair”, only multiple components that the human mind interprets as a chair because the concept of a chair isn’t physically real  
Similarity the concept of a video game isn’t real  
It’s just a bunch of electrons buzzing around to make a LCD screen light up in specific ways  
There are only components which we assign to them that make a video game
 
Making a singular definition of what a game is is not only unhelpful, but philosophically unsound in my opinion

@The Frowning Pony  

 
Yep, that’s about what I expected from you.
 
Ah, well. It’s probably for the best that you didn’t read any of that. Let’s just agree to disagree and stop bothering each other.
 
 
@Background Pony #94DF  

 
Are you really too cowardly to put a reddit username and pony character’s face to the insults you’re printing in an attempt to derail this thread?
 
Of course context matters! Duh. Unfortunately, the Leftists think context means “Whatever the left wants it to mean”. That’s why they’re willing to celebrate when people are arrested and deplatformed for making Anti-Nazi Pug videos. They’re willing to pretend anti-nazi videos are pro-nazi, they’re willing to pretend their own Fascism is anti-fascism, and they’re willing to pretend they’re good people and everyone they hate is a bad person.
 
I will repeat this right here as many times as it needs to be said. You can intentionally misread and misinterpret my post as many times as you want, because my stance will never change. Once again, I repeat for the sake of you: I understand your lie, and I see right through it. You are not the teacher here, you are a brainwashed pawn of SJWism. You want your side to be the authoritarian censor police because you crave power, and I don’t think you’re mentally or morally qualified to serve in that role. And not just because the left thinks child sexualization, child exploitation, and blatant lies(Muh Russia!) are okay but conservative speech isn’t.
 
I know this is like asking a brick wall to stop being made of bricks, but stop being dishonest. You’re throwing around these “Your posts are just rage/hate!” and “You’ve been a baaaaad boy on other sites!” and “You just don’t understaaaaaand!” lies to attack me. Why? Because you can’t formulate a good defense of SJWism’s many failings, so you’re attacking someone willing to point them out. A cheap tactic. An old and tired trick. It’s a good thing you’re so bad at lying, eh?
 
Look, I really can’t see an anonymous troll adding anything constructive to the thread. Every lie you throw at me will be debunked. You will be embarassed every time you attack me. If you don’t have anything better to do, consider taking up music.
 
 
@Commune  
Poker and Blackjack are games, but not video games. Bingo is still a game, even though it’s purely luck-based and has no true interactivity to speak of. A Choose Your Own Adventure book isn’t a game unless it’s good and comes in video game format. But Depression Quest is just a bad Choose Your Own Adventure book.
 
Depression Quest is such an objectively bad “Game” that I hesitate to call it a game. The Megaman-knockoff platformers I made as a child using Game Maker are better games than this. And I’m pretty sure I understood more about coding back then than she understands now, considering her choice of engine was literally just HTML for that game. What a joke. If Depression Quest is a game, so is the Homestuck comic.

@SilverStarApple7  
“drop the ’If you won’t say I’m right on all issues you just don’t get the issues’ tone already, it’s dishonest.”

@Background Pony #94DF  
Yes, that tone. That’s the tone you should drop. I understand the “But huwty wowds are huwty!” argument, I understand the “But what about baaaad speech?” argument, and I understand the “Comtext! Comtext comtext comtext, business business business, math math math!” non-argument. I see through all of them. We don’t have free speech so we can talk about the weather, we have it so we can speak out against tyrants big and small.

@Commune  
We all have opinions. Mine is no less valid than your own and you know that. I define successful video games that fulfill two conditions; a “win/lose” condition and whether or not it’s engaging. Note the quotations.
 
Win/lose conditions don’t necessarily mean exactly as it says on the tin. It’s open to interpretation. Let’s say; Minecraft. You win by beating the Ender Dragon, lose by dying. That is, for the recent models. When it first released, it was just a voxel simulator. One that I played even when it was still in beta, mind you. Back then, Survival Mode only had a lose condition aka dying but no define win condition. That’s because it’s how the game was designed; You make your own fun. You set the bar of what counts as winning and losing in that game.
 
The win/lose conditions aren’t just there to give the player some reward for their hard work. It also acts as a definite end to a game. By winning one way, you “lose” the other possible routes. It doesn’t necessarily mean a game over.
 
I love video games. Not just as a medium but also as an art form. Which is why I put up at least a minimum standard to it. Call it gatekeeping or whatever but in all honesty, I don’t actually have to do anything. If a game is bad or stupid enough, it’ll be crushed by the other better games and fall into obscurity or be laughed at. Which is fine since we’ll need some grinded up failures to burn and last through the winter.
 
Also, David Cage games are still shit and there is no force on the planet that can change my mind on that.

@SilverStarApple7  
Dude, stop. You’re embarrassing yourself. Not everything is about hurty words being said. Sometimes it’s about the tone of someone’s argument makes them less likely to be taken seriously or their argument itself is bad while also containing those words. And your spasming on your keyboard about “hurty words” and “muh free speech” is getting to the point where it’s hard to take you seriously.
 
I see so many people uppity about free speech these days because some YouTube personality should be able to say the N word or call someone a queer and “how dare you word police” them, but it seems most are so drunk on the concept of free speech that they only asked if they could, not if they should, if you get me. You’re equating Steven Crowder calling some dude a queer in a derogatory manner to standing up against tyranny because you happen to not like the gay dude he insulted. Not because it’s moral or fighting against the tyranny of Big Vox. It’s an internet squabble between two internet pseudo pundits and you’re treating it like defcon five.
 
That’s not free speech, that’s just Steven being a douche for the sake of it. His argument could have easily been made without it so that’s why he’s a douche.

@Kamikakushi  
lad get ready, because you’re about to get DESTROYED by his FACTS and LOGIC.

@The Frowning Pony  
Amazing you manage to type that with such disdain.

@PonyPon  
I know it’s just shitposting, but the guy’s not going to listen to anyone and’ll just respond with nonsense, so why bother pretending to dialogue?

@PonyPon  

 
He has disdain for gamers, too.
 
I don’t know how this non-moderate became a site moderator, or what he’s doing trying to troll this thread.
 
@Kamikakushi  

 
I started skimming when you said “muh tone”.
 
Do you realize you’re fighting on the side of terrorists right now?
 
You want this to devolve into a tone argument, because I’m right and you’re afraid people might realize this. Stop wasting everyone’s time by repeating lies.
 
I don’t really like repeating myself. But yet again, for your benefit, I repeat myself: I understand the Liberal “But huwty wowds are huwty! And huwty tones are huwwwwtyyyyyyy!” non-argument. I see through it, you don’t, and I wish you did. I understand that huwty things are huwty, and I wish you understood this issue as well as you think you do.
 
We aren’t talking about huwty wowds or huwty tones right now.
 
Carlos Maza used his industry connections and position of power as a mainstream media journalist to cause a new Adpocalypse during Pride Month because he didn’t like that earlier on in the year, Crowder put out a video debunking a video Maza made.
 
Maza used his industry connections to pressure a private company into changing their terms of service and damaging the incomes of over tens of thousands of Youtubers, all because he couldn’t handle being ridiculed over his lisp, or being called what he regularly calls himself(Queer), or having his lie-filled video debunked.
 
Maza released this Antifa-defending video right after Crowder put out a video exposing Antifa as a violent terrorist organization that operates with the aid and protection of mainstream leftist media.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmNz2jGzsDA
 
What did Maza do in the video Crowder debunked, you might be wondering? Maza made a video in which he PLAYED DAMAGE CONTROL FOR A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, making bad excuses for their violence and begging everyone to ignore their violence, vandalism, lies and habit of attacking the elderly.
 
Don’t believe me? Take a look for yourself.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwIJccMH1Wg
 
That’s the issue here.
 
The Terrorist Left is abusing its institutional power and censoring discussion of its own fascism, terrorism, and dishonesty.
 
Doesn’t matter how many times someone says “But comtext of queer means only queers can say it and those fucking Straights can only say it in a nice way!” because that is not the issue here, and you can’t fool anyone into thinking that is the issue here.
 
The Terrorist Left is abusing its institutional power and censoring discussion of its own fascism, terrorism, and dishonesty.
 
If you don’t understand why that’s wrong then just post “Hurr durr I didn’t read any of that go back to breitbart” like the other leftist did when it wanted to admit defeat. Throw an “Orange man bad” in there, too. Haven’t heard that in a while. Feel free to call me a “Fucking white male” who’s “Blinded by white privilege” while you’re at it, for all the skin it won’t take off my nose.
 
Maza aids terrorists by lying to cover their tracks. You might not realize that this is the terrorist left you’re fighting for when you try and justify the left’s Jihad on Free Speech, but it is.
 
It doesn’t matter how many times you or anyone else yells “But comtext comtext comtext!” in this thread while ignoring the “Count Dankula got arrested, prosecuted, harassed by leftists and the state, and eventually fined for making an anti-nazi pug video leftists decided was actually pro-nazi” example I’ve brought up multiple times now. The left thinks it is qualified to ignore context, redefine what has been said, police speech, and criminalize conservativism. I don’t think it’s intellectually or morally qualified to serve as the judge, jury, and banhammer-wielder.
 
Would it kill you to read all of a conversation before you try and talk down to me? It’ll result in you getting embarassed less often.

@SilverStarApple7  
Keep claiming your right. Maybe one day you’ll actually manage to convince yourself you are. The funny thing is, people who are right often don’t feel the need to keep repeating how right they are. Specifically because, again, you resorted to talking about something unrelated to the issue of the argument. That’s a bait and switch their, friendo, where you started on Crowder’s comments about calling a dude a queer, but you don’t like that guy so quick, to the fallacy mobile to switch the topic to one you feel is easier to defend. Like, oh! He supports terrorism somehow so therefore Crowder is justified in calling him a queer? And therefore you support terrorism by extension because you think it’s not okay to call someone a queer? That’ll work!
 
But whatever. You were saying because someone thinks Crowder is a homophobe they intrinsically support the other dude and therefore also support terrorism? Poisoning the well? Guilt by association? False dilemma fallacy you just brought up earlier? Real top-notch debate skills. You’re slaying those leftist with these 1337 skills, bro. 360 no scoping fools.
 
Because one can’t think Crowder’s a piece of shit and the Vice dudes a piece of shit, right? But also think it’s a low blow to insult him for his sexuality. That’d be too complicated for the left-right dichotomy you’re pushing where if you’re not with us, you’re against us. Bash down the non-group thinkers and seize the means of production from the capitalist journalism swine, comrade. All that.
 
You see, looking at this shit from the outside, you see the horseshoe in full effect. And you’re a great example of how you are what you hate.

@Kamikakushi  
Why are you even reading all that drivel? Responding as if he actually managed to put together a coherent argument just fuels his little fantasy and subjects the rest of humanity to another 16yo that thinks he cracked the code.