Continuation of the Topic of What Archival Means.

@Northern  
No one is disputing that we said ‘archive’ a couple of times. And we have listened to your words. But your calls for action are not ‘righteous’ and your claims of our obligation to your vision of an archive do not hold water.
 
I don’t know anyone on staff who agrees with contention that we every claimed to be the kind of archive you are insisting that we should become, or - frankly - can even figure out where you’re coming from. Nor do I know anyone who wants to create an archive like you have described.
 
Maybe that kind of archive should be created - but I have no idea how it would be able to operate without screwing over artists and violating international laws.
 
That’s not something we want to try to become. It’s not something we ever meant to be perceived as.

@Derpy Whooves  
You. Yourself. Gave me. The definition. Of ‘Archive’. I’ve been using.
 
You yourself gave me the definition and now you’re refusing to stick to it. This is YOUR wording biting you, not mine. YOU set up this expectation for yourself in your own argumentation and now that you’re being called to live up )to your own standard, you reject ever having said it. That is a bald-faced lie.
 
I have no problem with honoring DNPs, I’ve even stated I have no problem with banning content that is explicitly racist, but the site policies as they’re being presented right now ban a whole, WHOLE lot more than that and definitively, provably so from the stated actions of staff in the other thread.
 
If it’s something you were never meant to become or be perceived as, you should not have purported to be this exact thing to me. You should not have lied to me about what your definition of what the site is doing is. You were either lying then or you’re lying now. Pick your poison.

@Northern  
Let’s unwrap that quote:
 

 
Yeah, I still stand by that. If you think that I’m not standing by that, then give me an example of how I am not standing by that. I’m pretty sure it’s going to involve your definition of ‘completely racist’.

@Derpy Whooves  
This entire thread already answers that question. The quote is fundamentally incompatible with the rejection of being an archive you just stated. You have been caught in a lie. One way or another. There’s no way out of this one.

@Derpy Whooves  

 
If i’m correct Northern’s definition of an archive was created. With the co-owner being a current mod here. Anything related to mlp is archived, the only things not allowed are irl cp, irl animal cruelty, and irl animal gore.

@Northern  
I don’t believe the images that we deleted so far should be a part of the “snapshot”. They are fundamentally incompatible with the core values of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic. They are fundamentally incompatible with our Rule #0: Be Excellent To Each Other.
 
@Background Pony #87E6  
I don’t remember Clover The Clever or Carcer talking about wanting to preserve racist images or images that broke Rule #0. In fact, I recall Carcer talking about how much those kinds of images were not welcome. I mean - why would they create Rule #0 if they thought we should host images that broke Rule #0?

@Derpy Whooves  
The co-owner of the archive is a mod here, not the co-owner of here is a mod on the archive site.

@Background Pony #87E6  
And in fact on the archive rule 0# does not exist.

@Background Pony #87E6  
Now I have no idea who you are talking about.
 
@Northern  

 
Ok, if you’re just going to repeatedly tell me I am lying about what I said and what I meant when I said it, then I don’t see any point in continuing to attempt to have a discussion with you.

@Derpy Whooves  
He’s talking about twibooru ^:)

@Derpy Whooves  

 
I wasn’t going to say who it is, he’s said he’s told the admins here, I was saying that Northern’s wished archive did exist, and that you didn’t think anyone would want to make an archive like that, when a staff member here did just that.

So if i was to make a pony version of the ““bleach”” fetish like a pony raping a zebra would that be againts rule 0?

@Northern  
So, this whole thread was a way for you to construct a giant strawman with your rigid definition of what an archive is, demand derpibooru adhere to this definition completely, then go “GOTCHA!” when you exhaust staff with your walls of text.
 
A trap, instead of a discussion. Very Cathy Newman of you mate.

@ArmadilloEater  
Nonsense. It’s a simple contradiction in terms and I’ll explain below.
 
 
@Derpy Whooves  
@Derpy Whooves  
“The site has not ‘consistently’ advertised itself as an archive. It has never advertised itself as being the kind of archive that you claim that it has. And we have responded to your claims about that tweet several times.”
 
“Honestly, I think it would be unethical if we all of a sudden decided that we were going to become the kind of archive that you are arguing that we should become…”
 
“I don’t know anyone on staff who agrees with contention that we every claimed to be the kind of archive you are insisting that we should become, or — frankly — can even figure out where you’re coming from. Nor do I know anyone who wants to create an archive like you have described.”
 
For every single one of those quotes from you I was using the definition you provided for what you thought the site was and why you thought you should keep using the term archive. Regardless of what has been specifically deleted the fact that you said you never claimed to be the kind of archive I was insinuating, when the only kind of archive I was insinuating was the archive definition you provided to me… Then you absolutely cannot be telling the truth because earlier in this same conversation you yourself advocated that the site be an archive under a definition. You purported to be following the rules of being an archive such as that and you yourself expressed that the site is in fact that kind of archive, as a member of staff, putting that out there as the image of the site.
 
This blatantly and perfectly contradicts, all three of these statements do, what you said before;
 
To establish your definition of an archive that this site uses;  
“My definition is that this site is trying to archive a snapshot representative of what this generation, and hopefully future generations, of fans of My Little Pony create. That doesn’t mean we have to keep every iteration of a meme, or every image made by any particular artist. We just need to capture a representative snapshot.”
 
To establish you are referring to the word archive here;  
“We — representing the site — answer your questions and try to explain that you have misunderstood how we are using that word and why we chose it. You reject our replies and insist that we have to live by your original misinterpretation. The site — I and other staff representing the site — have repeatedly answered your questions about what we mean when we call ourselves an archive, and we’ve agreed to consider other terms for ourselves in the future.”
 
These two combinations of sentiments are mutually exclusive. One of them necessarily precludes the other, so which is it? Either you do believe the site is an archive that follows the definition you gave me or you think the site never calls itself an archive and never said it was supposed to adhere to the rules of being that type of archive. It’s one or the other and they cannot both be true. Deletions and the record thereof is meaningless here, it’s entirely about two things that you said that run directly against each other. One of them must have been a lie, so which one is it?

even if derpibooru would consider itself an archive, i think we can agree that even then some rules and limits must be in place. if people not want things archived derpibooru should for example remove it. if it goes against rule 0, or goes against laws of the country the site is hosted, it also has to do something. if it has content uploaded that the site or team not really agrees with and probably have a risk that the site could lose hosters, its platform and users because of it, it should probably also not just stand there and do nothing. do i think dp should have very agressive limits? should derpibooru ban aryanne completely? probably not, but we can also agree that some pictures probably should and if it depicts tragedies like the church shooting or similar, it should be removed.  
i think derpibooru can be an archive site, and it have proven itself over many years as a reliable site.  
placing some not so agressive limits will not change that, and its something i expect from a site like derpibooru.  
it basically can’t run without some certain limits. archive or not.

@mrx1983  
The problem is that they remove art at random based on their own bias and then basically go “oops” each time they are caught red-handed. Hell, these days they do not even do that cause they know they do not have to anymore.
 
An archive will archive all there is to archive.  
A publisher chooses what is on the site and whatever policies it has to fall under.
 
The fact people even defend this kinda boggles my mind and shows just how far we have fallen as a fandom and mankind in itself.

@mrx1983  

 
The problem is that most archives have binary rules and limits that dont have much interpretation except in edge cases.  
“Is it related to our topic.”  
“Is it legal for us to host it.”  
Things that have a definite “Yes” or “No” answer.  
An archive dedicated towards preserving every colour of the rainbow cant decide to exclude the colour red without ceasing to be an archive.

Derpibooru is high school with extra steps. It’s not an archive. It’s not a gallery. It doesn’t fit the definition or professionalism of either. It’s a place where people hang out and share art they’ve found with whatever clique they’ve associated themselves with. If it wanted to be taken seriously as a gallery it would ditch the porn and if it wanted to be an archive it would ditch the social aspect of it (and most of the art since only 5% of the content posted on this site counts as ‘art’). Instead you’ve got this popularity contest-fueled hot mess.
 
Let’s face it-if the mods actually gave a shit about things like Black Lives Matter and anything related to being ethical and socially-conscious they’d ban anything Nazi, pedo, rape and anything like that related and make it a safe space where that kind of art isn’t allowed. It wouldn’t be censorship as anyone who likes that kind of art can make their own website wherever they’re legally allowed to. As of right now what we have is a bunch of people trying to maintain the status quo while trying to appease a movement they don’t really believe in otherwise they’d have more balls and be more strict in what people are allowed to upload.
 
You can’t have your cake and eat it, too. You can’t please the socially conscious crowd AND please the crowd who love fucked up/racist content. Either you ban anything problematic and accept you’re going to lose the racist/pedo/edgelord crowd OR you accept that people are going to think you’re OK with racists/pedo/s and edgelords and brand your website a disgrace to the community. Make up your freaking minds.

@Background Pony #6439  
So go start your own website that isn’t a disgrace to the community.

@Background Pony #6439  
This is one of the more rational things anyone’s said during this whole nightmare.

@Background Pony #16B3  
I never said I took people calling it a disgrace to the community seriously. It’s fucking art. There are real issues out there hurting real people. If you or anyone else thinks thought policing people is going to make the world a better place you seriously need to study history. Censorship has ALWAYS been the tool of despots, dictators and anyone else looking to force others to think & act the way they do. I say that as someone who finds REAL racism, hate, pedophilia and anything that causes people harm abhorrent. It’s just that freedom of expression is important. It’s one of the most important if not the most important concept anyone’s ever come up with. Do I think Derpibooru needs to harbor content the majority of the community finds reprehensible, though? Of course not. It’s their website, their rules.
 
I just find the site owners inconsistent, arbitrary and ultimately meaningless moral stance laughable and think that ultimately it’s a case of the pony trying to close the barn door long after any semblance of moral authority has left the stable. Why? Well for one thing I constantly see mods showing approval of foalcon content. Many of the same mods who drool over hot fillies are acting like, “Oh racism bad”. Come on, now. It’s disingenuous to pretend like they’re standing behind the oppressed when they’re celebrating the idea of Underage characters being abused.
 
Just own up to being degenerates. It’s OK. Nobody real is being hurt. The only thing Derpibooru is doing by white knighting BLM is making a mockery of themselves.