Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)
Latecomer
@Background Pony #7E8D
OK, first, while I love a good overblown run-on with lots of synonyms, digressions and specifications more than most, even I have trouble reading that paragraph. Maybe tone it down just a bit?
Secondly, it took me a while to figure out what word you meant, but I guess it’s “white supremacy”? (FYI, actually a phrase.) It seems to me the meaning is fairly clear - “whites” being superior and on top. What are they trying to redefine it to?
OK, first, while I love a good overblown run-on with lots of synonyms, digressions and specifications more than most, even I have trouble reading that paragraph. Maybe tone it down just a bit?
Secondly, it took me a while to figure out what word you meant, but I guess it’s “white supremacy”? (FYI, actually a phrase.) It seems to me the meaning is fairly clear - “whites” being superior and on top. What are they trying to redefine it to?
CaptainXtra 
I understand that the populations from nations with Iron Fisted Dictators or Religious Fanatic Leaders don’t have the luxury of choice but what’s the excuse for Democratic Nations not having peaceful separations?
I’m not giving up.
@CaptainXtra
I’m not sure about the beneficial aspect, but AFAIK the dissolution of Czechoslovakia in 1993 happened with relatively little drama and no violence (even if, to this day, a significant part of the Czech and Slovak populations still consider it was a mistake).
I understand that the populations from nations with Iron Fisted Dictators or Religious Fanatic Leaders don’t have the luxury of choice but what’s the excuse for Democratic Nations not having peaceful separations?
Background Pony #7E8D
Ignore the above post, please. I accidentally posted it before finishing it.
Background Pony #7E8D
In addition, I seriously find it to be absolutely disturbing and almost unbelievable that seemingly no one else—as in, anyone who is neither an absolute centrist, moderate, conservative, right winger, reactionary, far-right-winger, nor a right-wing extremist—but me has ever thought about, had great concerns over, or has ever spoken up over the past nearly 12 long months about how serious, fundamentally dangerous, and morally and ethically wrong and irresponsible that the idea and actions of trying to redefine such a supposedly gravely serious word like ‘white supremacy’ are.
…How the HELL is this okay, rational, and/or reasonable in any way?!?
This New York Times article —along with all the other articles linked in this post, here —both amazingly and inadvertently encapsulates just why, exactly, trying to redefine the meaning/definition of a word that is as dire and is as fundamentally serious as ‘white supremacy’ is absolutely NOTHING but a phenomenally awe-inspiring, landfill-sized agglomeration of complete and utter bullshit.
In addition, I seriously find it to be absolutely disturbing and almost unbelievable that seemingly no one else—as in, anyone who is neither an absolute centrist, moderate, conservative, right winger, reactionary, far-right-winger, nor a right-wing extremist—but me has ever thought about, had great concerns over, or has ever spoken up over the past nearly 12 long months about how serious, fundamentally dangerous, and morally and ethically wrong and irresponsible that the idea and actions of trying to redefine such a supposedly gravely serious word like ‘white supremacy’ are.
…How the HELL is this okay, rational, and/or reasonable in any way?!?
Background Pony #7E8D
And if it needs to be explained to anyone in plain English just why, exactly all of that is absolutely, fundamentally wrong, then consider this: According to the logic of the people who are trying to re-define the word white supremacy, anything and everything like all of these things, linked here, are forms/instances of ‘white supremacy’ being perpetrated and/or perpetuated, along with shit like this that isn’t/wasn’t necessarily absolutely ANYTHING BUT white supremacy and/or “white supremacy”, even though ACTUAL white supremacy DID exist, had proliferated, was institutionalized (mainly in the Southern US States) and was systemic, back then.
And to top it all off, assumption-based, generalization-based, and heavily-flawed/problematic assertion-based articles like this one and this one are NOT helping the situation in any way, shape, or form at all, whatsoever—+@especially@+ when considering that the two absolutely look like they should be labeled as opinion pieces—of which somehow, they are not.
Now the people who are trying to redefine that word—AND are insanely idiotic and monumentally delusional for doing so—are potentially going to deliberately gaslight, browbeat, indoctrinate, condition, and deceive anyone and everyone under the sun from ages 0 to death (ESPECIALLY people who just so happen to be white or “white-passing”) who does not and/or will not agree in any way (or in any one particular single respect) with the promoters of this insane push for redefinition—as well as anyone and everyone who is/was initially unaware of this shit, to begin with—that essentially everything and every_one_ that has even remotely ANYTHING to do with white people as a collective, “white culture”, and/or “whiteness”—even if any one or more of them happen(s) to NOT be a white person—is/are “white supremacy” (or is/are “*perpetuating” forms of “white supremacy”), and/or *is (or are) “white supremacist(s).” This is beyond sickening.
And if it needs to be explained to anyone in plain English just why, exactly all of that is absolutely, fundamentally wrong, then consider this: According to the logic of the people who are trying to re-define the word white supremacy, anything and everything like all of these things, linked here, are forms/instances of ‘white supremacy’ being perpetrated and/or perpetuated, along with shit like this that isn’t/wasn’t necessarily absolutely ANYTHING BUT white supremacy and/or “white supremacy”, even though ACTUAL white supremacy DID exist, had proliferated, was institutionalized (mainly in the Southern US States) and was systemic, back then.
And to top it all off, assumption-based, generalization-based, and heavily-flawed/problematic assertion-based articles like this one and this one are NOT helping the situation in any way, shape, or form at all, whatsoever—+@especially@+ when considering that the two absolutely look like they should be labeled as opinion pieces—of which somehow, they are not.
CaptainXtra
I’m not giving up.
@Background Pony #7E8D
Could you at least condense these all into fewer posts?
Could you at least condense these all into fewer posts?
Zincy 
On that note, I don’t inherently disagree with you. I have noticed that, on several occasions, some people will label any pride or celebration from white heritage as white supremacy at worst, or at the very least as somehow being inherently racist.
It tends to be a vocal minority, with most people being smart enough to distinguish between the two, but I’ve seen it happen personally. I’m rather proud of my Irish and German heritage, and of my adherence to indoeuropean Pagan traditions, both of which has earned me some ire from extreme radicals.
In Vino Veritas
@Background Pony #7E8D
@Background Pony #7E8D
Lad, word of advice, brevity is a virtue. You use so many filler words that it borders on purple prose levels and distracts from your main point. It’s hard to take you seriously when you’re doing the Daffy Duck thing of sticking more and more descriptors on your statement.
You could have said everything you intended to say with 1/3rd the words and not lost any of the needed information.
@Background Pony #7E8D
Lad, word of advice, brevity is a virtue. You use so many filler words that it borders on purple prose levels and distracts from your main point. It’s hard to take you seriously when you’re doing the Daffy Duck thing of sticking more and more descriptors on your statement.
You could have said everything you intended to say with 1/3rd the words and not lost any of the needed information.
On that note, I don’t inherently disagree with you. I have noticed that, on several occasions, some people will label any pride or celebration from white heritage as white supremacy at worst, or at the very least as somehow being inherently racist.
It tends to be a vocal minority, with most people being smart enough to distinguish between the two, but I’ve seen it happen personally. I’m rather proud of my Irish and German heritage, and of my adherence to indoeuropean Pagan traditions, both of which has earned me some ire from extreme radicals.
CaptainXtra
I’m not giving up.
I’m just saying people that after something like Jan 6th maybe the choice for states to secede if they’re truly unhappy with the Union wouldn’t be the worst thing ever.
Like the folks who support state voter suppression laws probably aren’t going to be redeemed into being content with Federal standards.
You know, trim off the fat…
Like the folks who support state voter suppression laws probably aren’t going to be redeemed into being content with Federal standards.
You know, trim off the fat…
Egil 
screaming forever
@Penguin Dragneel
Yeah but that requires one or both to admit they each have faults. And I will find ten billion dollars in my backyard before that ever happens.
Yeah but that requires one or both to admit they each have faults. And I will find ten billion dollars in my backyard before that ever happens.
Background Pony #7E8D
Welcome to Hell World, Est. 2012 or 2016. We’ve never left.
Unquestionably the worst part about all of this is the fact that there are so many people, out there, who are just blindly buying into this bullshit, without even QUESTIONING it.
And to be honest, this particularly seemingly unprecedented, insidious, and fatally-flawed trash heap of bullshit has been ceaselessly gnawing away at my mind, even before when George Floyd was killed. It’s only after that event happened that it has become one of the main things that continues to sit the forefront of what I think about, because of the absolutely disastrous and potentially dangerous consequences of it, the completely unnecessary, unwarranted, immensely disingenuous, assumption, generalization, and sophistry-based rationale behind it, and the dire potential effects that it will have on not just the future of political discourse, but potentially ALL discourse, as well.
And to be honest, this particularly seemingly unprecedented, insidious, and fatally-flawed trash heap of bullshit has been ceaselessly gnawing away at my mind, even before when George Floyd was killed. It’s only after that event happened that it has become one of the main things that continues to sit the forefront of what I think about, because of the absolutely disastrous and potentially dangerous consequences of it, the completely unnecessary, unwarranted, immensely disingenuous, assumption, generalization, and sophistry-based rationale behind it, and the dire potential effects that it will have on not just the future of political discourse, but potentially ALL discourse, as well.
Welcome to Hell World, Est. 2012 or 2016. We’ve never left.
Background Pony #7E8D
@CaptainXtra
I would normally attempt to do so, but to avoid the prospect of having my entire post deleted because of any one part of it potentially violating rule #0, I decided to divide it up into different big chunks, based on what is information and what mostly just contains scathing rhetoric (that hopefully doesn’t violate rule #0) so that all the main, vital bits of information that I wanted to get across don’t run the risk of getting deleted.
I would normally attempt to do so, but to avoid the prospect of having my entire post deleted because of any one part of it potentially violating rule #0, I decided to divide it up into different big chunks, based on what is information and what mostly just contains scathing rhetoric (that hopefully doesn’t violate rule #0) so that all the main, vital bits of information that I wanted to get across don’t run the risk of getting deleted.
CaptainXtra
I’m not giving up.
How Democratic was the Confederacy?
It’s obvious that minorities were treated as slaves but how much freedom did the average non-slave citizen have?
Was Jefferson Davis an outright iron-fist Dictator or what?
Believe it or not but typing “were the Confederate States authoritarian” in Google doesn’t give anything informative.
It’s obvious that minorities were treated as slaves but how much freedom did the average non-slave citizen have?
Was Jefferson Davis an outright iron-fist Dictator or what?
Believe it or not but typing “were the Confederate States authoritarian” in Google doesn’t give anything informative.
AaronMk 
Zero. None. The only people with political power were people that owned slaves. I think you had to have a minimum. The confederacy was kind and gentle in fact that from the beginning it was rocked by bread riots because fuck the non-slave owning poor. The confederacy also ran into immediate problems with any region of the confederacy who was not plugged into the slave economy revolting against the revolt. The Free State of Jones is a pretty widely praised anti-confederate movement within the confederacy.
At the heart, the Confederate project was a Jeffersonian experiment of aristocratic planter power, placing the title of the free yeoman into the slave holder. Had none? Congratulations, you’re conscripted into the army and paying a pretty penny for bread.
EDIT - If you want to go more, or to get a lead Matt Christman did a vlog series where he held a book club on Eric Forner’s Reconstruction, which is a fairly comprehensive examination of Reconstruction. But in particular, in the linked video at least he immediately goes into the pre-Civil War and early Civil War conditions of the Confederate States, at least after a ironically bad rendition of Goober Peas.
Sky funeral
How Democratic was the Confederacy?It’s obvious that minorities were treated as slaves but how much freedom did the average non-slave citizen have?Was Jefferson Davis an outright iron-fist Dictator or what?Believe it or not but typing “were the Confederate States authoritarian” in Google doesn’t give anything informative.
Zero. None. The only people with political power were people that owned slaves. I think you had to have a minimum. The confederacy was kind and gentle in fact that from the beginning it was rocked by bread riots because fuck the non-slave owning poor. The confederacy also ran into immediate problems with any region of the confederacy who was not plugged into the slave economy revolting against the revolt. The Free State of Jones is a pretty widely praised anti-confederate movement within the confederacy.
At the heart, the Confederate project was a Jeffersonian experiment of aristocratic planter power, placing the title of the free yeoman into the slave holder. Had none? Congratulations, you’re conscripted into the army and paying a pretty penny for bread.
EDIT - If you want to go more, or to get a lead Matt Christman did a vlog series where he held a book club on Eric Forner’s Reconstruction, which is a fairly comprehensive examination of Reconstruction. But in particular, in the linked video at least he immediately goes into the pre-Civil War and early Civil War conditions of the Confederate States, at least after a ironically bad rendition of Goober Peas.
Latecomer
@Background Pony #7E8D
OK, a bit clearer now, but still way too hostile. You do have something of a point there - I particularly like Sam Keillerman’s article - but while things may be getting a little out of hand, the efforts involved are well-meaning and deserve correction, not condemnation.
(Obviously it would be ideal if said correction was done by people other than white cis males, but I can’t turn into anything else.)
@CaptainXtra
Can you name a state that doesn’t contain at the minimum thousands of liberals and minorities, though? Many of whom couldn’t nescessarily afford to migrate even if they wanted too?
OK, a bit clearer now, but still way too hostile. You do have something of a point there - I particularly like Sam Keillerman’s article - but while things may be getting a little out of hand, the efforts involved are well-meaning and deserve correction, not condemnation.
(Obviously it would be ideal if said correction was done by people other than white cis males, but I can’t turn into anything else.)
@CaptainXtra
Can you name a state that doesn’t contain at the minimum thousands of liberals and minorities, though? Many of whom couldn’t nescessarily afford to migrate even if they wanted too?
silbasa 
@Background Pony #7E8D
You will often find that activists of whatever kind they happen to be do this. They take a term and expand its meaning, making a problem sound much larger than it actually is to get attention and power.
In America nowadays it’s the left and their antics that I pay the most attention to. Racism is their current power project. BLM and their critical race theories are parts of it, they are aiming to create a panic over the fact that everything is racist, thus gaining power. Anything or anyone standing in their way will be labeled “racist”. It is very hard to speak up against this, you are just another bigoted racist defending your privilige no?
Political correctness is also another powerful tool used by the left. Using this they can spread their message in the media and entertainment industry. They get access. The media industry doesn’t want to be seen as racist so they willingly play along. A public narrative is formed. Accurate or not it becomes the truth in the eye of the public, even spreading to the highest levels of government. They use these tools to label and silence any sort of opposition or group they don’t like. White people as a group for instance still holds some sway in the US. A great target for propaganda. Label them as racists and you get power and concessions. Very effective. An example is the BLM leader with five houses, one in the Bahamas and one with a runway. #justice or #grifter?
An anecdote at the end of the rant: remember a few years ago when we got reports that something like 8/10 women in american colleges had been raped? I was horrified. How could this be possible? Almost all the women on campus had been raped!
As an unenlightened novice I had fallen for the left’s tactics, this time it was the feminists bringing forth the shocking statistics. Turns out they had redefined and expanded the definition of the word “rape”. It no longer just meant sexual assault on someone under threat, by force or incapaction. It meant every uncomfortable interaction a woman had with a man. An argument. A man staring at a bus stop. A bad pickup line. An offensive joke and there was even some other nonsense I cant recall, now defined as “rape”.
Lesson learned. Every time I hear such over the top claims now I look into them and see if there’s truth to them. Statistics and definitions can be manipulated and activists on both the left and the right can do this. Currently the left are in my opinion the worst offenders in the US.
Be skeptical. Where are their numbers coming from? A neutral reliable source or something like the Southern Poverty Law Center? Media covers a story where someone black was allegedly murdered by police? Wait for the bodycam footage, it usually tells a different story.
You will often find that activists of whatever kind they happen to be do this. They take a term and expand its meaning, making a problem sound much larger than it actually is to get attention and power.
In America nowadays it’s the left and their antics that I pay the most attention to. Racism is their current power project. BLM and their critical race theories are parts of it, they are aiming to create a panic over the fact that everything is racist, thus gaining power. Anything or anyone standing in their way will be labeled “racist”. It is very hard to speak up against this, you are just another bigoted racist defending your privilige no?
Political correctness is also another powerful tool used by the left. Using this they can spread their message in the media and entertainment industry. They get access. The media industry doesn’t want to be seen as racist so they willingly play along. A public narrative is formed. Accurate or not it becomes the truth in the eye of the public, even spreading to the highest levels of government. They use these tools to label and silence any sort of opposition or group they don’t like. White people as a group for instance still holds some sway in the US. A great target for propaganda. Label them as racists and you get power and concessions. Very effective. An example is the BLM leader with five houses, one in the Bahamas and one with a runway. #justice or #grifter?
An anecdote at the end of the rant: remember a few years ago when we got reports that something like 8/10 women in american colleges had been raped? I was horrified. How could this be possible? Almost all the women on campus had been raped!
As an unenlightened novice I had fallen for the left’s tactics, this time it was the feminists bringing forth the shocking statistics. Turns out they had redefined and expanded the definition of the word “rape”. It no longer just meant sexual assault on someone under threat, by force or incapaction. It meant every uncomfortable interaction a woman had with a man. An argument. A man staring at a bus stop. A bad pickup line. An offensive joke and there was even some other nonsense I cant recall, now defined as “rape”.
Lesson learned. Every time I hear such over the top claims now I look into them and see if there’s truth to them. Statistics and definitions can be manipulated and activists on both the left and the right can do this. Currently the left are in my opinion the worst offenders in the US.
Be skeptical. Where are their numbers coming from? A neutral reliable source or something like the Southern Poverty Law Center? Media covers a story where someone black was allegedly murdered by police? Wait for the bodycam footage, it usually tells a different story.
Penguin Dragneel 
The Lady Lightbringer
@Egil
The only time you’d see any political party admit that they were wrong is if they REALLY ####ed up (unless you’re Trump, then you just handwave it as “fake news”).
The only time you’d see any political party admit that they were wrong is if they REALLY ####ed up (unless you’re Trump, then you just handwave it as “fake news”).
CaptainXtra
It ran on feudalism then.
And people still have such fond memories of the CSA?
I’m not giving up.
How Democratic was the Confederacy?It’s obvious that minorities were treated as slaves but how much freedom did the average non-slave citizen have?Was Jefferson Davis an outright iron-fist Dictator or what?Believe it or not but typing “were the Confederate States authoritarian” in Google doesn’t give anything informative.Zero. None. The only people with political power were people that owned slaves. I think you had to have a minimum. The confederacy was kind and gentle in fact that from the beginning it was rocked by bread riots because fuck the non-slave owning poor. The confederacy also ran into immediate problems with any region of the confederacy who was not plugged into the slave economy revolting against the revolt. The Free State of Jones is a pretty widely praised anti-confederate movement within the confederacy.At the heart, the Confederate project was a Jeffersonian experiment of aristocratic planter power, placing the title of the free yeoman into the slave holder. Had none? Congratulations, you’re conscripted into the army and paying a pretty penny for bread.EDIT - If you want to go more, or to get a lead Matt Christman did a vlog series where he held a book club on Eric Forner’s Reconstruction, which is a fairly comprehensive examination of Reconstruction. But in particular, in the linked video at least he immediately goes into the pre-Civil War and early Civil War conditions of the Confederate States, at least after a ironically bad rendition of Goober Peas.
It ran on feudalism then.
And people still have such fond memories of the CSA?
Ereiam 
Monde de merde
@CaptainXtra
Only the Lost Cause revisionists and the Southern “patriots” ignorant of their own history.
Only the Lost Cause revisionists and the Southern “patriots” ignorant of their own history.
NitroFury 
Nitro Cat still livin’
Rockets kill 2 Israelis; 28 die in Gaza as Israel hits Hamas [AP News]
TL;DR: So the confrontation between Israel and Palestine is getting worse, two Israeli women were killed by a rockets fired from Gaza, while 28 Palestinians, including 10 children, were in Gaza; most from airstrikes.
TL;DR: So the confrontation between Israel and Palestine is getting worse, two Israeli women were killed by a rockets fired from Gaza, while 28 Palestinians, including 10 children, were in Gaza; most from airstrikes.
AaronMk
You had a lot of work done after the war to turn over perceptions of the south. And in many ways Reconstruction wasn’t as planned. If you continue along with Matt’s Reconstruction Junction he delves into the origins, the historical possibilities of Reconstruction as it happened, and how it finally turned out. The short of it is that Andrew Johnson did some significant damage to the program out of spite for his northerner rivals and restored a lot of Southern power holders to power.
Sky funeral
How Democratic was the Confederacy?It’s obvious that minorities were treated as slaves but how much freedom did the average non-slave citizen have?Was Jefferson Davis an outright iron-fist Dictator or what?Believe it or not but typing “were the Confederate States authoritarian” in Google doesn’t give anything informative.Zero. None. The only people with political power were people that owned slaves. I think you had to have a minimum. The confederacy was kind and gentle in fact that from the beginning it was rocked by bread riots because fuck the non-slave owning poor. The confederacy also ran into immediate problems with any region of the confederacy who was not plugged into the slave economy revolting against the revolt. The Free State of Jones is a pretty widely praised anti-confederate movement within the confederacy.At the heart, the Confederate project was a Jeffersonian experiment of aristocratic planter power, placing the title of the free yeoman into the slave holder. Had none? Congratulations, you’re conscripted into the army and paying a pretty penny for bread.EDIT - If you want to go more, or to get a lead Matt Christman did a vlog series where he held a book club on Eric Forner’s Reconstruction, which is a fairly comprehensive examination of Reconstruction. But in particular, in the linked video at least he immediately goes into the pre-Civil War and early Civil War conditions of the Confederate States, at least after a ironically bad rendition of Goober Peas.It ran on feudalism then.And people still have such fond memories of the CSA?
You had a lot of work done after the war to turn over perceptions of the south. And in many ways Reconstruction wasn’t as planned. If you continue along with Matt’s Reconstruction Junction he delves into the origins, the historical possibilities of Reconstruction as it happened, and how it finally turned out. The short of it is that Andrew Johnson did some significant damage to the program out of spite for his northerner rivals and restored a lot of Southern power holders to power.
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