The great GamerGate discussion. (Stuff and things)

@Zendigo  
Maybe I was wrong; Wouldn’t be the first time, really.
 
But like I said, America takes it’s national security very seriously these days, you can thank 9/11 for that, and these people are essentially breaking into the country. The question shouldn’t be “How can we stop Trump from detaining them”, but “How can we stop this from happening”, and if the solution includes make it simpler (Not easier, there’s a certain standard countries have to adhere to) then so be it, but they can’t just let criminals go free because of the moral implications of their jailing.

@Zendigo  
I have a serious question, do you believe that everyone has the right and can go to your property and live there, maybe make a tent or start building his own house there?
 
I mean, as long as they dont do something “actually” illegal like steal from you or murder you they arent commiting any “real” crimes, right?
 
The realistic alternatives are simple, detain both the children and the parents in the same spot (along with countless other adults) or separate them and put the kids in the shelters like they did. Now with the backlash unless im wrong they are all held together, yay nice for us, lets pat ourselves on the back while the kids might end up in danger.
 
I mean yeah, they look like terrible places. I mean the actual ones, not the images of the processing centers when they wait to be transfered (where even in the images you can see adults there even though everyone screams how its supposed to be the children one)
 

 
 
What i found to be the children ones actually look pretty decent, what they should considering the children arent really to blame for their parents decision to try to “break” into the US hoping to get a better life.
 

 

 

 

@Twilestia
 
The photos you’re showing aren’t representative of all the holding camps. The “tent cities” Trump is approving are just that; tents. Even the brick-and-mortar building detention camps still run into the issue of family separation for children who are sometimes extremely young and aren’t able to deal with being tossed into a room with a bunch of strange children they don’t know, all while dealing with the trauma of being forcibly removed from their families.
 
Of course, Trump’s recent order is ostensibly trying to end family separation, but it comes with a sinister hidden caveat: changing the time limit on detention. The biggest problem with Trump’s recent order is indefinite detention. Previously, detention was limited to 20 days. Removing that time limit sets a terrible precedent, and would allow the government to just toss migrants into prison camps and forget about them.
 
Without a time limit on detention, these people have no guarantee of freedom. The order needs to be rewritten to address this fatal flaw.

@Zendigo
 
Of course they are not, but neither is the claims you made a representation of what it is or would be.
 
Before, what happened after the 20 days were over? They were forcefully deported back or? I miagine there is supposed to be some process and cant imagine that 20 days is a time by which it can be done considering what seems to be a large number of illegal immigrants.
 
What would be a viable timeframe though? a month or two? Yeah a “no limit” is bs.
 
 
Although your claim of “no guarantee” of freedom also sounds pretty bs, on more then one level. The biggest one being that the whole point of detaining them is to deport them back if they arent actual assylum seekers, no?
 
You realize that just keeping them (especially indefinetly) has a cost of its own? I remember a while back there was some talk about some some group of 2500 or so immigrants who wanted to cross the US border, and how the cost of detaining (providing a place, feeding and all that stuff) them would be over 200 million.

@Twilestia
 
The problem is that without a clear timeframe, there’s no guarantee of when they’ll be processed. The migrants therefore have no control over the time of their release, nor are they given any clear idea of when they’ll be free to go.
 
This is a problem. We give prisoners in this country definitive sentences down to the exact day; as we should. But undocumented immigrants - under Trump’s new order - are no longer given an exact timeframe and therefore have nothing they can legally rely on to be released in a timely manner.
 
As for what happens, that depends on their court hearing; If they’re determined to be legitimately seeking asylum, then then should be granted it. That is, after all, why a good bulk of these people are here.
 
It doesn’t help that Trump’s saying he wants to get rid of their right to a fair trial altogether, which isn’t the first time he’s suggested sidestepping due process, and likely won’t be the last.

@Zendigo
 
Again, it costs money and resources to keep them detained. Especially indefinetly. So while i agree with you that the indefinetly part is a terrible idea, i doubt that its actually in practice going to be indefinetly, the whole idea of them detaining hundreds of thousands illeglas every year, keeping them (so adding up hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands over the coming years) sounds insane along with the notion that they would do it just for the sake of doing it when it would be in their best interest to finish the process asap.
 
But a timeframe should definetly be established just for the sake of avoiding anyone falling between the cracks. But what is the “timely manner” that you worry they are deprived of? Thats certainly more then the old 20 days limit.
 

 
Do you actually believe that or are you just saying it for the sake of not coming of as “racists” or whatever and admtiting that the vast majority of them are just opportunists seeking a better life?
 
From some stats i found , the number of asylum seekers granted asylum in the US per year is several tenthousand while the number of illegal immigrants coming to the country is believed to be several hundredthousand. That seems to contradict your words.
 

 

 
I have a decent sallary from my job by my countries standard, but its some 3 or more times less then the US/Western minimum wage while the prices of living are around 30% higher in the west compared to my country. Do i have a right to seek asylum as a “economic refugee” as well considering the poorest (except outright homeless people) westerners live far better then even the middle classes of a good chunk of the world?
 

 
Did trump actually say he wishes to get rid of due process, or did he say something else that you/someone who told you so decided that thats the meaning of what he said?

@Twilestia  

 
I’ve never worried about “coming off as racist” simply because I’m not.
 
I’d say that, by definition, seeking asylum is also seeking a better life. Nothing wrong with that.
 
As for the people who are coming just to find work and a better life, but aren’t specifically fleeing gangs or other dangers, I believe that they should seek our nation’s legal ports of entry - however, if they do cross illegally, they still should be processed in a humane and timely manner, and then told to go get in line at the legal port of entry.
 
Trump said, in this very tweet , that he doesn’t think these people should even get a trial. He calls for “no judges or court cases,” only deportation. This sets a bad precedent, as ICE could wrongfully accuse legal permanent residents or even citizens - and, without a trial, how would those people prove their legal right to be here?
 
The courts are our only defense against being wrongfully accused and sentenced. Trump, the leader of our country, has called for “no judges or court cases.” I think that ought to be alarming to everyone, regardless of their political party.

@Zendigo  
If they entered illegaly, they have no legal right to be in the US, but yeah due process should certainly be held regardless of that. ž
 
But from a practical standpoint imediate deportation could be a good solution.  
Just need safeguards against missue and probably only be aplicable at the border when you immediately catch someone crossing illegaly. Certainly not random people inside US. The justified backlash from some idiot deporting a legit citizen would be righfully huge. I see his tweet as him saying just that though, talking about people caught coming in illegaly. Still just dropping due process for those already part of the process would be a terrible idea even if he were to do someting like that.
 

 
You do realize that they can (and should) seek asylum in the US embassys of their own country (or maybe a neighboring country if they dont have one?) like the majority of actual asylum seekers do? Its a small minority that does it upon entering the US illgelally, and even then its mostly because they were caught and they end up just deported anyway with some delay from what i found.

Lets get back on topic!

@Lord Seraph  
Polygon is lying about VidCon 2017
 
I can’t figure out how to archive….
 
Anyways, as you can see they’re choice of langue is disingenuous as watching any of the videos from the event in question shows the contrary and it was Anita that antagonized with Sargon replying;  
“Why don’t we just talk?” and she response “Whatever dude.” there goes that ‘conversation’ she is goes on about.
 
And I know some that wonder why Polygon isn’t taken seriously to the majority in gaming. This is why.

@Cyborg_pony  

Archive.is, my dude.  
Here’s an archive from June 19, while we’re at it.

@Cyborg_pony  
But if they don’t lie about it, people might not form the right opinion!

@Exhumed Legume  
Yeah, I tried. It just gets an error.
 
 
@Plain Pony  
Gasp! We can’t have that! D:

@Cyborg_pony  
Hmm. Weird.  
What kind of error?

@Exhumed Legume  
Dunno. Just didn’t want to do it.
 
I think most of the time I used it, the articles were already archived.

I tried it myself a little while back with another Polygon article. Gave me an error.  
It seems to happen on some news sites. Perhaps they caught on with our archiving antics.

@Lord Seraph  
Is it the “not available in your region” one that people from EU countries get on some American sites?  
‘Cause some American sites straight-up blocked access from EU countries due to the new “copyright” legislation that’s about to be passed.

@Lord Seraph  
I remember some news sites like vice and such blocking archiving services since people used it against them when they would stealth edit articles after being called out on the idiotic stuff they write in them.
 

@Twilestia  
Since when is archive.is a “right wing” site?  
It’s completely non-partisan an can be as easily used by so called leftists against us. Most who use those archiving sites probably aren’t even politically minded.
 
Look at them, acting all high and mighty, infallible they are not.
 
They’re the ones to talk about “ethical journalism” when they edit articles to how they see fit, constantly misreport issues, and shut down critics.  
Trying to rewrite histories and events to their liking. This is as 1984 as it gets.

@Lord Seraph  
Thats why people say they believe everyone to the right of Stalin, Mao and others like that are “right wing” to this people. Because thats pretty much their stance as it is judging by their own words and actions.

@Twilestia  
These archives are rarely if ever partisan.

@Lord Seraph  
I meant news sites like vice and such not archive sites.

@Lord Seraph  
IDW wont be around if they keep like this.
 
The editor-in-chief Chris Ryan quit after being there for 14 years.

@Lord Seraph  
It doesn’t even matter if they are partisan. A webpage can only be archived if it existed at the time it was archived. No political leaning changes that fact, and it’s sad that some people will try and deflect with a call to tribalism to hide this fact.