I agree, however I wont disparage poochie as I am aware that it’s a capital offense here.

shrugs Still liked the episode.

@Background Pony #5396  
Luna eclipsed was a twilight episode that featured luna, and DPDOMS was an ensemble episode. Your comment makes no sense.

This is spot-on.
 
This is not Celstia’s own “Luna Eclipsed” or “Do Princesses Dream of Magical Sheep”.
 
It’s a fake Celestia episode.

@Hory_Shet  
So, it was like when she was Stalking

Celestia and Luna made this episode good. Starlight neither added or detracted from it.

@Ryodraco  
Yes, you’re right. I just checked the transcript for Lesson Zero. I just still feel like I’m justified saying that the episode did a poor job of showing Celestia’s job as a ruler. But that is beyond the point now. And it doesn’t change the fact that being Equestria’s ruler means nothing as far as the cartoon is concerned. It’s writing the character into a corner.
 
That we can’t say anything about Celestia’s magic is kind of my point. You can’t say that Luna didn’t get anything as much as you can’t say that she did. It remains that if there was something the episode didn’t show it. Considering what the point of the episode was, there should’ve been something, if all Celestia’s good for is running the country. To me it’s a glass they didn’t bother to fill, at least until they touch this again, which I actually doubt will happen.
 
About what magic they could’ve given Celestia, I can think of several things related to the sun and to being a ruler in a magical kingdom, but it’s pointless to talk about what I could come up. The problem is that the producers didn’t come up with anything and not that they “didn’t meet expectations”.
 
Like a good, faithful Celestia fan, I bought a digital version of the journal the day it came out. I just didn’t like it and think it doesn’t fit canon. According to it, the point of being Celestia is moving the sun around and that is it. Actually, according to it, the two ruling Equestria is just because they have wings and horns, so it doesn’t fix the problem. Regardless of all that, the book doesn’t sit right with canon for me because Hearth Warming Eve didn’t mention the unicorns suffering from loss of magic because of dealing with the sun and the moon, which should be a big thing in the episode if there was an effort to unify canons. Or, more likely, the book should’ve gone somewhere different. It just felt like a lazy excuse not to have to think of anything real about the sisters. Which is the problem that I have with all this, anyway.
 
Flurry Heart isn’t adult, like Twilight was when she became one and we don’t know anything about Celestia and Luna’s childhoods. Yes, I’m being pedantic, but the cartoon just doesn’t care about their past as much as it doesn’t care about making any sense about Flurry Heart or the fact that Twilight had to grow and learn to become an alicorn. People just excuse the cartoon and suddenly you can breed then as much as you can groom them. That isn’t really a problem, but it tells me that production just doesn’t care about being consistent. But agreeing to your own argument, she may end up developing some sort of magic. And doesn’t change the problem with Celestia anyway.

@moonlightaveger  
Celestia was explicitly called the “ruler of all Equestria” (I think it was in the infamous Twilight freakout episode of season 2), so no, her being a ruler is what the cartoon says even if what is shown does not fit what you expect to see of a ruler. Course one can theorize there are ponies in lower government positions that decide a number of things (indeed I think we have seen a fair number of them), but all the same Celestia is still the ruler according to the cartoon. Likewise the second episode of the series has Celestia tell Luna they were meant to rule together, ergo they are both rulers.
 
We can’t say with certainty that Luna didn’t get anything from Celestia’s mark, as nothing we saw her do that day required special magic. I just choose to see the glass as half full in this case and leave open the possibility that she does have a special magic for certain situations. But really what special magic did you imagine her having that could be used in her day-to-day work? Luna needs special magic to make what she does even possible to begin with, but said magic is used for helping ponies in their dreams, not for ruling a nation.
 
And you really should look into the Journal of the Two Sisters to some degree at least. Its existence is mentioned and shown in the series, and Amy Keating Rogers (one of the more famous episode writers over the course of the series) wrote the journal itself.
 
And even if you ignore the journals’ stated origins of Luna and Celestia as natural born alicorns, Flurry Heart’s existence proves that a cutie mark isn’t needed to be an alicorn (as she has no mark yet).

@Ryodraco  
“I feel I should clarify that governing by guiding rather than commanding seems to be more a choice/preference rather than a limitation of their position. The princesses are certainly capable of commanding/dictating, they just prefer not to when its possible to suggest or guide. Not to mention that most ponies are so obedient to the princesses that a lot of the time they have no need to give outright commands, their wishes will be carried out just as well if they politely ask and everyone will be happier for it.”  
“Celestia could dictate, but chooses not to.” But then how can you say that she can, when she never does and the cartoon makes no statement about that? I would certainly like the idea, but you can’t say otherwise because the cartoon doesn’t go into that. You also can’t say that most ponies are so obedient that they just do whatever they ask without need for the princesses to dictate anything, because the cartoon, again, doesn’t meddle in that and you can’t say that the princesses have ever pulled that. Or at least I can’t remember that. As far the cartoon says, it’s possible that there’s a congress that decides things and Celestia doesn’t even hears of what they do. It’s not the consensus in the fandom, but it’s as likely as the other possibility.
 
“And yes this does lead to the question of what unique power comes with the sun cutie mark, but we can’t answer that with any certainty until the series gives us more information. If I were to speculate perhaps it gives Celestia visions (the symbolic connection being how the sun illuminates/reveals things, just as the power over dreams connects symbolically with the moon that appears at night and the dreams that occur at night).”  
The problem is that Luna didn’t get anything for changing her cutie mark with Celestia. The cartoon did “go there” and showed us nothing. The way the episode portrayed it, the whole thing about Celestia is that she can deal with social stuff and that is not even “her magic”. It undermines the resolution of the conflict where Luna thought that Celestia’s job was just smiling and waving, yet that is pretty much what Luna did while doing Celestia’s job, but it gives some weight to Celestia as a character, but it’s also pointless, because as far as we know, you could replace Celestia with a watermelon and it wouldn’t make a difference.
 
Come to think of it, I can’t remember if the episode even defined that Celestia’s job is ruling the nation in the same way it defined that Luna’s job is care for ponies’ dreams and protect their mental health. The reason this is a problem to me is that the cartoon says that Celestia’s thing is “rulling the nation”. But it never really showed that. If the story won’t ever go there, and that is all there is to the character, they just wrote the character into a corner until they do the same they did to Luna: actually come up with something for her to do. Actually, I’d be satisfied if the cartoon just mentioned that she does such a damn good job at it, and that is her talent. The key word is “talent”, or “destiny” and their place in the whole. Celestia is just there in a world where these things are so important there was a season opener about violating that.
 
“And about Luna’s power over dreams, my assumption has long been that it has to do with her cutie mark rather than being an alicorn (the fact that Celestia took over moving the moon for a thousand years suggests that moving celestial bodies is a general power available to both the sun/moon cutie marks rather than a unique power to just the sun or moon mark, not to mention that before they did it groups of unicorns were able to do it). When Luna first reveals her dreamwalking power in the series she states she does it because she is “princess of the night” but it sounded to me like she was saying that is the reason she uses the power the way she does, rather than the title being the source of the power.”  
Actually, the cartoon never mentions how many unicorns you needed to move the sun/moon. And, well, considering that her power went to Celestia when they changed their cutie marks, I suppose it has to do with her cutie mark. But that doesn’t mean that it also doesn’t have anything to do with her being an alicorn either, since being an alicorn, cutie mark, talent and her destiny are intertwined. Supposing they became alicorns in the same way Twilight became one.
 
But either way, Celestia just seems lacking, except in the fact that she manages her job, whatever it is, without some magic to help her. But we’re not talking about a realistic drama about realistic “everyday heroes”, we’re talking about a world of entering dreams, manipulating love, friendship as catalyst for magic, dragons, unicorns… In that world, this Celestia becomes just a boring, undefined politician. You can’t even clearly say that she’s THE ruler.

@moonlightaveger  

 
I feel I should clarify that governing by guiding rather than commanding seems to be more a choice/preference rather than a limitation of their position. The princesses are certainly capable of commanding/dictating, they just prefer not to when its possible to suggest or guide. Not to mention that most ponies are so obedient to the princesses that a lot of the time they have no need to give outright commands, their wishes will be carried out just as well if they politely ask and everyone will be happier for it.
 
And about Luna’s power over dreams, my assumption has long been that it has to do with her cutie mark rather than being an alicorn (the fact that Celestia took over moving the moon for a thousand years suggests that moving celestial bodies is a general power available to both the sun/moon cutie marks rather than a unique power to just the sun or moon mark, not to mention that before they did it groups of unicorns were able to do it). When Luna first reveals her dreamwalking power in the series she states she does it because she is “princess of the night” but it sounded to me like she was saying that is the reason she uses the power the way she does, rather than the title being the source of the power.
 
And yes this does lead to the question of what unique power comes with the sun cutie mark, but we can’t answer that with any certainty until the series gives us more information. If I were to speculate perhaps it gives Celestia visions (the symbolic connection being how the sun illuminates/reveals things, just as the power over dreams connects symbolically with the moon that appears at night and the dreams that occur at night).

@Ryodraco  
But if they don’t rule, instead guide, they aren’t rulers, they’re guides. These too broad definitions create these confusions. If words can mean anything, there’s not point to try and define anything.
 
I don’t care for the books or comics. I only watch the cartoon.
 
Suppose Luna’s power has nothing to do with being an alicorn in your opinion, then? No offense, but to me, it feels like you’ve missed the point of the question intentionally, in the context of the conversation.
 
And no. If Twilight takes that position in a certain situation (namely, when the actual ruler is missing) she’s not a ruler. It would be the same as calling the Secretary of State “President” because he’s part of the chain of succession.
 
About the rest with Twilight and Cadance, I really don’t know what to say. The cartoon doesn’t really care about this stuff to clarify and maybe you’re right, after all.

@moonlightaveger  
Indeed, I am using a broad definition, since overall ponies seem to govern themselves pretty well. Their rulers mostly guide rather than command, and act as caretakers, motivators, guardians, etc.
 
As for what I said about how Celestia and Luna became rulers, that is based on the Journal of the Two Sisters, which the show writers still regard as canon despite the confusion over Celestia and Luna’s words at the start of season six (in contrast they haven’t to my knowledge offered any defenses for the canon differences from the comics). Said journal states that the founders of Equestria approached the sisters and asked them to be their rulers, as they saw alicorns as a uniting force due to them embodying the three races’ powers and what Equestria stood for, and that they could decide things without being biased toward any one pony race.
 
Cadance being asked to rule the Crystal Empire is I think the only reasonable conclusion since I doubt the crystal ponies forced her to be their ruler or that she set herself up as their ruler (both would be out of character). All we really see of it is the ponies immediately call her “the crystal princess,” upon first seeing her.
 
The power that came to Celestia with being an alicorn is the same as with every alicorn, namely the abilities of all three main pony races.
 
And emergency or not, it still makes Twilight a ruler, just not one that usually exercises any ruling power (unless it has to do with her role in spreading friendship). Again, her position also seems to come with some inherent authority, as seen when she judged over that pony swap event, or when Pinkie asked her for an official position as a diplomat to the yaks (yes it was played as a joke but Twilight still didn’t claim that she lacked the authority to give Pinkie such a position). Then of course there was Twilight’s decision to pardon Starlight’s actions and make her her pupil.

@Ryodraco  
You’re talking about an emergency. I’m talking about a normal situation. Then you’re talking about special situations. In the daily routine, Twilight doesn’t bother with ruling anything. Diplomacy isn’t ruling, it’s representing (which I believe is something that Celestia also does, outside of ruling the country. I can’t remember if this is from the comics or the cartoon has also mentioned this).
 
How do you know that Celestia was given her position due to being an alicorn? Also, I can’t remember the quote where it says that Cadance was asked to rule the Crystal Empire by the crystal ponies. I can’t also remember the one that says the ponies wanted ponies who embodied the three tribes to rule them.
 
About Twilight, yeah. I kinda agree. We see her involved in that all the time the cutie map is involved. But she’s not really making decisions. It’s not “ruling”. The same about Luna. She doesn’t really “rule” anything, she goes around solving problems (ignoring the joke about government CREATING problems), but she doesn’t make decisions. So I guess that your definition of “ruling” is broader than mine.
 
By the way, what is the power that came with being an alicorn for Celestia?

@IceKitsune  
Is there any reason why it shouldn’t? Because every time I bring this up, people start (people who call themselves “Celestia fans”) defending that the cartoon doesn’t have to. It’s true that it doesn’t have to, but would it be bad if it did? And then, is there any problem in “asking”?
 
About why I need it, is because if it doesn’t, it’s headcanon and headcanon is fine, but it doesn’t really add to the character. For example, saying that she would’ve outed from the throne if she wasn’t making a good job makes some sense, but the information comes from you, not the canon. It is to me because it adds to the character and it’s an important part of the character considering Twilight seems to have in her such high regard, but at the same time, the cartoon says that her opinion of the princesses is exaggerated. Also, the episode implied that Celestia kept a facade of perfection in front of others. If she’s just another politician, I’d care less about her, but if she’s “worth it”, because she does something that would be missing without her, then I’d like her more.
 
If it doesn’t matter to you, then ok. You don’t need to bother with me.

@moonlightaveger  
Twilight’s princess status does carry some authority given that in the absence of the other princesses the guards deferred to her as a ruler, plus she is required/asked to be present for certain events involving rulers and has the authority to preside over and decide certain things (in particular she seems to have some diplomatic authority given how she was the one who restarted contact with the yaks). That she isn’t a primary ruler of a given area seems to be more due to how it would interfere with her role in Equestria (fostering friendships within it and the lands beyond) and how there aren’t really any areas in Equestria that need rulers right now that don’t already have them.
 
Basically, the other princesses have places to rule that were asked of them due to the powers that come with being alicorns, and in turn leads to them being called princesses. Celestia and Luna share to some degree the ruling of Equestria (though Celestia does most of the actual government stuff, Luna is more about morale and psychological health) and were given their positions due to being alicorns (the ponies wanted ponies who could represent all three races), and Cadance was in turn chosen by the citizens of the Crystal Empire to rule them. As for Twilight, her “kingdom” (as implied in the episodes titled that) seems to not be meant to be any individual place. Its more like she’s been made a special intermediary of the Tree of Harmony (who it could be argued is the true ruling power in Equestria, despite how hands-off it usually is).

@moonlightaveger  
Why do you need the show to tell you outright that she is good at her job exactly? She’s been doing it for over 1000 years at this point I think the fact that she hasn’t been deposed by now if proof she is good at it.

@CrassMetalHead  
Because fandoms aren’t a single solid and homogeneous block of people.
 
Why do people always have to point out the “human” side of Celestia? It’s not like she ever was a monolith of godlike perfection to begin with. I guess people disagree on that too.
 
Take me for example. I couldn’t give a damn about more Luna. I wanted more Celestia and this episode doesn’t really add anything to her and it’s frustrating as fuck that the cartoon is always so damn vague about anything related to Celestia and Celestia alone. Luna? Nah, here’s all there is to know about what she does. Celestia? Here’s Luna doing her job and you don’t even get to know if Celestia is actually good at it.

I really don’t get the problems. We got a Celestia and Luna episode and hell even before that, we have Celestial Advice where we showed the more “human” side of Celestia.
 
So why still fucking not be happ-  
Oh wait the fandom at times is unpleasable.

@Steel  
Could be.  
@Background Pony #6D9E  
The problem isn’t that idea that Celestia’s job is though or not. After all, the whole point of the two idiots arguing in the episode is that they had a wrong idea about what the other does. The problem is that the episode, at least I think, did a poor job at showing how though Celestia’s job is, when compared to Luna’s, that is objectively unique and can only be done by her. You could take anyone (that wanted) and put on Celestia’s place. It takes away from her by turning her into a generic politician in a world full of magic. They could’ve done much more with her.
 
Just saying that she rules the nation is pointless in a cartoon where she’ll never be shown ruling the nation, even though they could easily come up with something if they wanted.
 
And no, “princess” doesn’t necessarily mean “ruler”. Only of the cartoon says so and it’s a mess. Twilight, for example, is a princess and doesn’t rule anything.

@Darth Sonic
 
Wank

@moonlightaveger  
“She just sits her ass on the throne and is generally useless, because she sure as taxes doesn’t do it all by herself.”  
Episode then proceed to show she has a long-ass list of thing to do.And to drive the point further home,they show PHYSICALLY said list.Bad faith sure is funny but sure she “She just sits her ass on the throne and is generally useless, because she sure as taxes doesn’t do it all by herself”.  
“Just that she does it and Luna is too socially inept to do it”  
Gee,it’s as if NOT EVERYONE and not her fellow princess could do what she does,it’s as if it’s not” something [you] do everyday just to get actual work done”  
“Didn’t bother to explain why is it that they call Celestia a Princess”  
She’s the ruler of Equestria,sieging in the capital of Canterlot,how much obvious can you make this without venturing into Games of Thrones or Star Wars prequel theories,while kkeping in mind it’ a show for little girls,princess=ruler.End of the story

@moonlightaveger  
– Made Celestia’s job look like something I do everyday just to get actual work done.  
“I can probably do politic too in fact better than the fat cats.ME ME ME”

@moonlightaveger  
Honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me if Daybreaker is Celestia’s nightmare in more than one sense. I have little doubt that she worried over the course of 1000 years that her sister’s mental instability meant it could happen to her too. Luna has probably seen and bested this phantasm for Celestia many times since her return.

@Darth Sonic
 
I don’t really care.
 
The two finally had an episode.
 
But of course…

@Ryodraco  
Maybe the point is that Celestia doesn’t have a magic to help her and she just can do it because leading is her thing. Maybe the intention is that Celestia’s skill is leadership, that takes charisma. I can’t read the intention and that frustrates me. The same with Daybreaker.
 
I noticed something curious. Luna knows Daybreaker’s name without Celestia or the same mentioning it. With that whole thing about Daybreaker talking to Celestia, it may have been that some lines of dialogue have been cut for episode length and those would bring the whole thing together. What matters is that DHX tried making a great episode about the sisters coming together and that is what matters. They even gave Celestia some neat quirks.
 
Anyway… I tried to not be too childish, but I can be when I’m frustrated. A friend of mine said “Dude, don’t you like these ideas?”  
“Yeah.”  
“And aren’t everyone defending those ideas?”  
“Yeah.”  
“So stop being an idiot and accept it. Put it on on our RPG already.” lol