Why do I read these threads?

@TexasUberAlles  
But Twilight was able to use magic while rendered as this:  
 
She didn’t believe that she could, but she proved that she could before she noticed it. That’s called placebo. (Might be what you tried to say? I’m confused.)

@CronoM  
If we saw poison joke on those vines, that would explain things a little.  
Well, what would explain things a lot would be this:  
 
…But, exactly as predicted, you’ve chosen to ignore it. I still have no idea what you’re on about anyway, because so far you’re the only one who’s even brought up the idea that the Everfree itself was somehow responsible for the Plunder Vines; all the rest of us who actually watched the episode remembered the part where Discord said “Those seeds I planted should have sprouted up ages ago.” and “My plunder seeds should have stolen the magic from the Tree of Harmony and captured Princess Celestia and Princess Luna thousands of moons ago.”

@CronoM  
So when exactly is it shown or stated canonically that poison joke was the only plant capable of interfering with pony magic?
 

@TexasUberAlles  
Directly, not indirectly. I chose my words carefully because of the poison joke, a plant that grows within a certain section of the Everfree . If we saw poison joke on those vines, that would explain things a little.
 
As for the rest, you’ve already shown how petty and obsessed you are about this. You know when’s the dumbest time to play the ‘you have so much hubris’ card? When the person JUST said ‘this is just my opinion, don’t take it as fact’
 
Un-believable.

@CronoM  
Hey, remember when you said a lot of what you did was question dodging? Can’t help but notice all those points you managed to dodge here by shortcutting to insults instead, although I think I’d settle for “weak” rather than trying to assign a grade level to them.
 
I asked if you could be civil.  
…Aaannnd then you turned right around and were obnoxious about it. And then were surprised when you got obnoxiousness back. Tell me which game you’re bringing and I’ll be happy to play along.
 
I advised you to be done with it  
What you did was say, “I can’t think of anything to counter your logical arguments that doesn’t involve presenting my opinion ad infinitum as if it were provable fact, so I wish you would just let me have the last word and go away”, you just used a few less words to do it. Don’t worry, your message was loud and clear.
 
character consistency  
Like AJ not only being The Responsible One but also the one most likely to take charge of the group, and it therefore making sense that she would be the one to think of Twilight’s new strategic value and convince the others to go along with her idea? Yyyup, covered that. I could cite specific examples, if I thought you’d do anything besides ignore them in favor of falling back on your odd preoccupation with 3rd grade.
 
Has the Everfree ever directly messed with unicorn magic? No.  
 
Twilight can’t believe you just said that.
 
I don’t know what you’re even on about with this, because the Everfree Forest had nothing to do with it.
 
This happened:  

 
…because this happened:  

 
The Everfree was only involved because that’s where the Tree Of Harmony was.

@TexasUberAlles  
I asked if you could be civil. Apparently your too used to shooting down anyone’s analysis by just hurling 3rd grader insults and bs about hubris just for analyzing. If you don’t understand the character consistency is, just say so.
 
Just wow.

@TexasUberAlles  
Oh my god all you do is whine and make lame excuses. Has the Everfree ever directly messed with unicorn magic? No.
 
I advised you to be done with it, but all you did was complain more and not call any trait consistant, as if out-of-character nature didn’t exist because of fanfiction or some such nonsense. Oh vey that’s dumb..

@CronoM  
Talking about your interpretations of the episode first, then talking about your obnoxiousness.
 
Remember her phrase ’us earth ponies can’t do a thing about them’?  
Yes, and I immediately categorized it as a Worf Effect; everyone– both in Equestria and in the audience– knows Earth Ponies are the experts on any kind of plant and the first ones you’d turn to if a killer weed got out of control, so AJ pointing out that even the local weed-control badasses can’t stop these things was an easy way of acknowledging that This Is Serious Business rather than an everyday overgrowth. That makes far more sense than whatever poorly-defined conspiracy theory you didn’t quite articulate here.
 
Everfree, non-canon by the way, messed with unicorn magic while spreading  
It is a thing that happened, onscreen, and you are actually trying to call it “non-canon”. Wow. I’m a Texan, an’ I ain’t got hubris like that. Since you’re congratulating yourself on predicting… something, as soon as dust from one of the Plunder Vines made Rarity’s horn start bouncing the teapot and tea around, I remembered Discord’s fondness for dancing tableware and beverages and correctly called him as the true source of all the calamity. So no, the Everfree Forest wasn’t OOC either.
 
the AJ orphan part  
You talk a lot about characterization, but don’t seem to actually pay much attention to it; since when has AJ ever treated Granny and Big Mac like parental figures? Mac is a Big Brother and Granny is a Respected Elder. AJ is the one who acts like a parent in that fissioned nuclear family, and has always been presented as the one who’s in charge of the farm. The extended Apple Family is just that: an extended family; kinfolk ain’t the same as parents, and having your parents die and leave you to be the one to hold everything together when you’re barely a teenager is the sort of thing that tends to damage a person’s ability to cope with loss. Responsibility is a new concept for Rainbow Dash– and her obsession with the Equestrian Games was selfish, not from any sense of duty– but AJ has always been The Responsible One.
 
you have a severe lack of patience for people who don’t agree with your view on things. I’f you’d ask me, I’d advise you to just drop it.  
You honestly do not even see the irony here, do you.
 
I have a lack of patience for people who seem to think that whatever fanfic they’re writing in their own head is more canon than the show itself. Tell me, on your gradeschool-based scale of maturity, where does “Refuses to accept that what appears onscreen takes precedence over personal headcanon” rate? Because that is exactly what you and all the other “THAT’S OOC!” people are doing every time you insist that your personal interpretation of the characters is more correct than their actions in the actual show.
 
…And seriously, learn the difference between “could have” and “could of” before you try to be patronizing to someone else.
 
try not to go off onto wild assumptions and tangents to make excuses for the characters  
The characters don’t need me to “make excuses” for them, because they are the characters on the show. How they act is how those characters act; whether you like it or nor is irrelevant. Your insistence on OOC!!1! is based on your personal interpretation of broad general aspects of the characters; my Occam’s Razor explanations for why they might be acting that way are based on specific things they have done or said or had revealed about them in other episodes.
 
Your answers had too many holes in them, and a lot of what you did was question dodging  
What is this called, “begging the question”? Making an assertion and proceeding as if it were just given fact without bothering to provide any examples or counterarguments isn’t quite the same thing as actually making a coherent argument.
 
assumptions you didn’t need to use before but are now  
Your initial comment was two sentences long, and contained three points: OOC!!1!, you agree with Discord, and you think Twilight is becoming self-centered. By this new standard of yours– which you didn’t need to use before but are now– everything else you’ve said on this page is now invalid.
 
You don’t appear to understand how debate and/or argument works; if I disagree with your assertions, I will explain why I disagree, and if you disagree with my reasoning you explain why, so on and so forth. The term you’re looking for is “elaboration”, which is not the same as whatever weak attempt at accusations of circular logic you’re trying to make.

@Xhao  
Not really. It was a rather boring insult.
 
Anyway, I’m off.
 
 
@TexasUberAlles  
You don’t need to take my analysis as fact, but try not to go off onto wild assumptions and tangents to make excuses for the characters. Most likely, they just want to hammer in the idea that Twilight is a princess to the idiot kids, and AJ was just chosen at random to be ‘the voice of the author’. Remember her phrase ‘us earth ponies can’t do a thing about them’?
 
At that very second, I facepalmed and realized she was had to say that to setup a forced plotpoint…and then came Zecora’s potion which I already guessed needed Alicorn magic. I hate to use the ‘saw it coming’ card, honestly I do, but when she used the word ‘earth pony’, I knew the B-writers were setting up a plot point(if you want to defend the B-writers, try the OOC-ness in the decade long friends in EG simply disbanding their friendship over one text-based supposed betrayal), and the same for the elements of Harmony being moved into place with simple telekinesis, something Rarity could of done with gems easily if it wasn’t for the fact Everfree, non-canon by the way, messed with unicorn magic while spreading. :/
 
What hurt most about this episode was outside of Nightmare Moon and Discord’s awesome scenes, everything and everyone were so transparent in how the plot was in control, not the characters.

@TexasUberAlles  
Your answers had too many holes in them, and a lot of what you did was question dodging and assumptions you didn’t need to use before but are now. (If its a running gag, then its a gag that takes humor over personality so far. Kudos for them /sarcasm.) Especially the AJ orphan part. She was raised by her big brother and grandmother, and has more family then she can count. As such, she has never displayed the traits akin to an orphan you are attatching to her but never developed. The only one who developed the psychological profile of an orphan is RD, (many examples, think along the line of Aladdin as a character example) but she’s too much of a realist to put stock in magical items or a princess title. So is AJ in fact. Also, I think your confusing AJ for RD in the responsible ‘national’ catagory. Things like national security go way over the most of the group’s head. Twi sees it through Celestia’s eyes, but RD’s the one who on many occasions has concerns on a more worldly view on her own (Her Wonderbolt sacrifice, Discord’s nightmare, her reason for helping the Crystal Empire, etc)
 
I was being civil. That doesn’t mean I can’t pity you. The fact that you were using the 3rd grader insults before shows you have a severe lack of patience for people who don’t agree with your view on things. I’f you’d ask me, I’d advise you to just drop it.

@CronoM  
AJ wouldn’t put stock in some physical magical artifacts  
It didn’t come across to me that she actually cared about the Elements themselves; they were just a thing she could use as an example that was easier than listing all of their adventures over the last three years. You’d have to ask M.McC, but from a writing standpoint, that’s almost certainly all it was: script shorthand. In-universe, for all we know she might have latched on to that because Twilight puts such an emphasis on the Elements that AJ reckoned that’s what was most important to her.
 
Hell what about Zecora? Why did she call Twi princess?  
Because… she’s a princess? I expect everyone to call her Princess until she explicitly tells them to cut it out (and The Cakes to keep doing it anyway). McCarthy has implied that it will be a running gag throughout the season.
 
The guards were pretty clear that Cadence has the Crystal Empire to run; if she showed up– which would probably take a while, since it’s not right next door like Canterlot occasionally is– all that would do is change which empire was leaderless. Aside from the guards, we don’t know if Ponies would even accept the rule of a prince, so Shining Armor wouldn’t be much help.
 
The psychological match you are refering to is a shutin who never developed connections with people  
Noooooo, not even remotely. It’s the psychology of an orphan, someone who had the whole world pulled out from under her during her adolescence and was left to be the one in charge of a family and a farm that’s (apparently) always on the thin edge of going under. That’s why it was AJ who was grasping at straws to find a way to keep Twilight close, even to the point of focusing on powerbaubles; she has the most reason of any of them to fear a loss of family. We still don’t know anything about any other parents than Rarity’s and Pinkie’s, so anything there is just conjecture, but AJ, AB, and Big Mac are orphans, and that changes how you deal with the threat of loss.
 
Fluttershy is the shut-in. If it weren’t for her cutie mark, she’d be the town’s Crazy Cat Lady. (…give her time)
 
The difference between how the populace would see you after you became a princess and how a down-to-earth friend like AJ would see you after you became a princess is so many worlds apart, its a pity you don’t see it.  
…So much for “civil”. 6_o
 
AJ is The Responsible One; she has to consider the serious and practical effects of things like Twilight being a princess now. She might personally still think of Sparklehorse as a nerdy pal, but she’s had to be The Grownup longer than any of her friends have, so she understands that it’s not just about what she thinks any more, it’s about the entire nation. She sees Twilight getting pulled away by national duty… and that’s another good reason in her mind to emphasize something with national security implications that ties herself and the others to Twilight.

@SeraphimDawn  
Lmao good one xD

If you agree to be more civil like now then you were before, I’ll address your points. Agreed?
 
“but has it occurred to you that maybe she was just desperate to have something concrete and definitive she could point to as a way that they were all connected, and would remain so even though Twilight had a new job and wouldn’t be able to be around as much?”
 
Yes I DID consider that and the answer is NO. Of course not. AJ wouldn’t put stock in some physical magical artifacts, she’d put stock in their shared memories! Especially not enough to mention it 3 times. They’ve only had the elements in their sole possession over the last month or so.
 
(Hell what about Zecora? Why did she call Twi princess? She’s not even native to central Equestria and Celestia’s rule. You expect the SPIRITUALIST to see Twilight differently or feel scared of losing something special just because of a status increase? Heck that’s not even mentioning all the willpower decreases and self-dependency the plot forced on the other 6…but lets stick on AJ, the OOC-ness of all of them in this episode is too much to list all at once, even if AJ was the biggest case. Not even to mention Cadense is next in line and would simply have to give up ruling her city-state and come immediately to rule Equestria in Canterlot…by law even!! She was declared the 4th princess, right from Celestia’s mouth.)
 
“Her “Princess this an’ that” delivery in the opening act sounded very forced to me, not like a matter of weak acting or writing or direction, but of a well-written and -acted character forcing herself to say something because she was nervous and scared of losing one of her best friends.”
 
I know the exact psychology behind the complex emotions you both describe and I’d already considered, and it points to AJ acting in the OPPOSITE direction based on AJ’s psych profile.
 
The psychological match you are refering to is a shutin who never developed connections with people before the elements of harmony came into play, and is so worried that once their removed, they’ll be separating her connection from them. That’s not even remotely close to AJ, hell that’s not even Twi anymore, not after she reread all her friendship letters in ep 28.
 
“ now she has to deal with thinking of her adorkable little library nerd pal in the same category as God Princess Sunraising Lifegiver Celestia”
 
Umm, why in the world does AJ of all people need to do that? Royalty is royalty, and friends are friends. Rarity would of been the only one who wanted to make a big deal out of Twilight being a princess out of projection. Even with Princess Luna. AJ tried to act neighborly instead of royalty-humble after getting over her initial fright of Nightmare Moon. See?
 
AJ is one of my 7 main favorites, (yes I love every single one of them for different well-written reasons), cause she is rooted to the ground and sees people how they ought to be. The only things that do get to her are her few insecurities that effect her moral code of keeping her word. (Your second paragraph only describes a conflict of personalities and a bad situation. A bad situation wouldn’t of been what was happening in her eyes. All Twi did was become more of an extension to Celestia then she already was.)  
She was going back to Ponyville after the festival anyway.
 
The difference between how the populace would see you after you became a princess and how a down-to-earth friend like AJ would see you after you became a princess is so many worlds apart, its a pity you don’t see it.

It’s been confirmed.  
Everpony is made of GAK.

@CronoM  
Her focus on the Elements was unusual, yes, but has it occurred to you that maybe she was just desperate to have something concrete and definitive she could point to as a way that they were all connected, and would remain so even though Twilight had a new job and wouldn’t be able to be around as much? We’re only disagreeing here because you just went straight to “OOC!” and never looked back when AJ showed behavior that seemed odd for her, without even considering that there might be a perfectly sensible reason for it; I thought it was odd as well, but thinking about it in context made me remember that she has a history of blurtin’ stuff out when she’s nervous or flustered. Her “Princess this an’ that” delivery in the opening act sounded very forced to me, not like a matter of weak acting or writing or direction, but of a well-written and acted character forcing herself to say something because she was nervous and scared of losing one of her best friends. AJ has always been as respectful of royalty as anyone else in Equestria, and now she has to deal with thinking of her adorkable little library nerd pal in the same category as God Princess Sunraising Lifegiver Celestia, and it’s freakin’ her out. Her characterization has always been one of a mare who has all her ducks in a row and all her plates spinning in the same direction- I’m pretty sure that’s why she’s always near the bottom of the favorites lists, because she’s the one who most has her $#!+ together– but has trouble coping with new things that, uh, upset the apple cart. Sometimes she flips her lid and starts flailin’ (Applebuck Season and Last Roundup), and sometimes she just acts like a jerk (Boast Busters and Bridle Gossip), but new and different things tend to throw her off her game.
 
Go back to Look Before You Sleep; put in an unfamiliar situation, she freaked out and acted like a jerk, but when she realized that the situation was threatening her friendship with Rarity and Twilight, she was the first one to step back and then step up to try to find a way to mend fences, by acknowledging that there were differences between them but they all had something that held them together, and a goal they needed to work toward. That’s what she was doing here; even if the Elements were a weird way to do it, she was looking for something more than just “we’re friends, so let’s be friends” as a way to keep them together. Splitting the party may have ultimately been a bad idea in the forest, but she did have a point about it being a huge risk to have the last available royal along on a scouting mission, and to her mind she had already set the Elements up as a thing that bound them together even if Twilight was back in Canterlot Ponyville.

@Background Pony #0C57  
She cares about money, the farm and physical things to live. Things of ‘physical importance’
 
She’s never cared at all over super magic items, or something that represents their friendship which is ‘non-physical importance’, but all in the heart. AJ is all heart when it comes to friendship.
 
This is common sense.
 
What your suggesting is that AJ can’t 1) want money to help her family AND 2) be willing to give up items she’s just had for a year for their continued friendship and well being….at the same time.
 
I don’t understand what your saying as all. Its like your trying to over-simplify something as much as possible to argue.

@CronoM  
OK, let’s take one of your assertions: Applejack is OOC because she’s concerned with material things, in this case the Elements of Harmony.
 
Go back to “The Ticket Master”, and what did Applejack want? To make money, to pay for Granny Smith’s hip operation and a new barn. She was the only one of Twilight Sparkle’s friends with a material motivation for going to the Gala.
 
So, what princess were they trying to sell back then?

@CronoM  
Kind of have to agree with this.
 
Its not like were forgetting that this is a kids show, but they shouldn’t need to sacrifice character individuality and make extreme contrivances to make a plot. If they do, it needs editing and better writing. Its writing 101, the plot and the characters should go hand in hand :)

@James Rye  
In other words, saying unusual behavior has a purpose in the plot doesn’t make everything right and not OOC cause you CARE about the characters! You care about why certain characters do certain things. Who doesn’t? MLP:FiM a character driven world. When did they forget this? When they needed a princess plotline to sell.

@James Rye  
That’s a very good thesis Rye, and a lot of it I agree with…
 
…however…
 
What makes MMC and Princess Twilight Sparkle so special that it has to go to FAR HIGHER extremes to patronize and explain to the younger audiance? It doesn’t need to in most episodes…
 
..it most certainly didn’t need to in the Season 2 finale…
 
..what makes Magical Mystery Cure and Princess Twilight Sparkle so special?
 
Answer: They need to sell this.
 
If the writers had their way, they wouldn’t of shorted us 13 episodes in season 3. This was rushed, monetary motivated, and its hard to sell a plotline where you HAVE to make a character far more important then the others….because the concept of someone just becoming a princess in this day and age, even in a kids show. is fundamentally weak. The very foundations of her becoming a princess, whether you agree with them or not, were vague, rushed, and not something solid.
 
You are right in all aspects, but remember that they’ve never these badly-written liberties to this extreme before.
 
I can’t think of a SINGLE other episode then Princess Twilight Sparkle…where the plot is more important then the characters (besides Mare-do-Well which I already listed)
 
If you can’t write a plot without sacrificing the characters individual personalities, you’ve officially failed to write a plot. But that’s what you just said they had to do for this…is that right? Is it quality? These are obvious questions people naturally ask, even my littlest sister caught up on these contrivances in the plot.
 
They took too many liberties to try to convince the younger audience that the plot means something. And the bigger problem is Rye, and listen carefully….
 
….that the kids that grew up with this very clever show are already smarter then your average kids. Not everyone, but a lot of them expect very clever stuff from FiM. To suddenly pull something from one of your older sister’s old Barbie movies she grew out of years ago, (i.e. the plotline where the main character becomes a princess in the last 8 minutes), is throwing them an age regression curve ball.
 
On the other hand, do you think a 3-year old will understand a thing Discord said to Twilight near the end? Deep, moral, psychological stuff that denounces the theme of the rest of the episode?
 
No.
 
Overall, the episode was a unusual contradiction…and that contradiction exists because of Discord’s dialogue. Its like an episode where everyone is acting one way and everything’s good…but then this one supersmart guy appears and throws all that you and everyone has done in the last day upsidedown.

@James Rye  

@CronoM  
@TexasUberAlles
 
What you two, and a lot of the bronydom, seems to forget is that this show was and is made in mind for children.
 
Now before you start throwing shit at me for using the “it’s a children cartoon”-argument, please read my comment in full. Thank you very much.
 
In no way do i want to say that because it is a kid show it has lesser quality in story telling/character telling nor that it is “dumbed down” so that kids can watch it. Kids are very intelligent (most of them at least) and eager to watch/do/etc what they enjoy.
 
However if a three year old girl watches the premiere then it will have different views of what is happening than its parents of a teen brony. The teen brony will laugh at the white flashback-potion and start drawing a semen joke pic if he’s talented enough. The parents will grin at some of the jokes and if they have watched enough of the show, be interested to see where the EoH came from.  
The little girl however has over 44 minutes thrown at it with constant changes, several flashbacks, lots of dialog and much action with music and changing scenes bombarding its mind.
 
A kid can understand only so much.  
Thus “visual aids” are used to make it easier for little children to understand the gravity of a scenario even if they have no context/nothing to compare to it yet. I mean, how many three year olds can imagine what a “nation” is and why it is such a big thing when the “leader”, here the princesses, is missing. Having Spike, a well-known and liked character by kids, faint when he hears about the princesses missing and screms “THEY’REMISSING!” with the others gasping in shock at it, makes it easier for kids to understand than any explanation/dialog could have done,
 
So this wasn’t done as an OC move, but to inform little children of the gravity of the situation.
 
Same with AJ’s explanation. Again, many litle children will not understand why Twi gets sent back because she’s a princess. They do know she’s important but they also know that Twi is important as friend of the group. It’s why that particular scene is so long and we have Twi in tears and the others look sad/apologetic, all visual clues to the dialog for the kids to understand that the group of friends had a “falling apart” because five of them didn’t wanted to risk one of them six because of her new status as princess. And again, 3 years old and knowing the meaning of the word “status”, not that many will be able to do so.
 
I also think that’s why Twi flew in the S3 final, for little children to understand that this “alicorn ascenion” is a good thing which will turn out fine, after all Twi is flying without problems/worries and a smile, and that it is nothing to worry about. Well, that and that the writers hoped for a fourth season when they wrote the S3 final but couldn’t be too sure of getting it.

@TexasUberAlles  
@CronoM  
Irresistible force, meet immovable object.

@CronoM  
It’s not really a “card” so much as it is “pretty obviously what’s going on here”. You have this idea in your head of how these characters should act in a given situation, and when they turn out to act differently than that– in the actual show, which is, y’know, kindasorta the definitive version– you flip out and start ranting about “out of character”. It’s patently ridiculous, because what you’re basically doing is mewling that your personal vision of them should take precedence over what actually appears onscreen. And again, YOU ARE DEMONSTRABLY INCORRECT ABOUT THIS; when a character acts a certain way in a dozen or more episodes and you pick one scene out of the batch and insist that they were OOC in it because you wanted them to act a different way in that scene, sorry/not sorry, but the problem ain’t with the show. Get it through your head: Whether you, personally, like a given characterization or not is absolutely 100% irrelevant to how consistent that characterization is between episodes, and consistency is what defines “in character”. I didn’t particularly care for AJ going on about the Elements myself, but her flailing awkwardness in uncomfortable conversations has been well-established since the early episodes of Season 1, and her focus on practical matters is a fundamental part of who she is.
 
And there was not a single thing out of character in MMDW, either. I already have a list of examples ready of all of them acting the same way in other episodes if you’d like to be shut down on that one the same way I shut you down here on SAYS.