@tehwatever
At that point, Sombra isn’t even really a “pony”, more an animalistic manifestation of his own malice, until the end of the episode. Undead wraiths being more powerful than their living counterparts is a pretty standard convention.
As for his army, besides Starlight’s anger bottle, Twilight Sparkle easily enthralled the entirety of Ponyville waaay back when. A common monarch butterfly could hypnotize Opalescence. Fluttershy’s Stare could be amplified to effect an entire swarm of bats.
Magically controlling an army honestly doesn’t seem that big a deal, even assuming he was.
It could just be your run of the mill horde-of-darkness or fear-driven army (definitely Sombra’s style there), or technologically mind-controlled (those helmets?).
Dark magic is, again, a huge question mark. We have basically zero indication what it can do or how it differs from normal magic.
Yeah that bothers me too. Sombra is freaking RIDICULOUS. He conjures up a city size storm clouds like nothing. AND his infamous “dark magic” is very powerful. It is perhaps THE strongest Manipulation-Type magic the show’s got so far. In the alternate timeline, Sombra actually controlled a WHOLE ARMY with mind control. Not even Starlight Glimmer has done anything of that scale, and she’s really good with Manipulation spells.
Though, if left unchecked, Starlight COULD probably do something similar. Her “anger bottle” spell infects nearby ponies and made them a proxy of her anger. She literally made them agents of her will.
I’d rank him Sombra > Twilight >= Starlight. Now SOMBRA…I think HE can solo Pony of Shadow…
@AC97
Discord, Tirek(Equestria absorbed), Goddess-Princesses, Sombra, PoS and Chrysalis (fully fed) are the strongest ones out there.
If you’re just going with “just ponies.” You have Starswirl >= Twilight >= Starlight. Then you have the upper-mid tier like Cadence Armor and Sunset.
“Raising the sun every morning was so hard, it took five great sorcerers plus Star Swirl the Bearded to do it.” - Horse Play
How the hell is Star Swirl so far above Celestia, or even above her in the first place? Also, Twilight is, to quote the PoS, “almost” as strong as Star Swirl, presumably because she hasn’t been an alicorn for that long, Star Swirl being a much more experienced mage, and/or her being a bit weakened.
Starlight being up there with Tirek in terms of raw power really doesn’t add up either, Chrysalis’ power really depends on a few factors, and Shining Armor should probably be higher too, so in conclusion, this tier list is nonsense.
Out of curiosity, what’s the basis for Twilight>Sombra>Celestia?
Sombra I would say is ambiguous;
On one hand, both Celestia and Luna went to take care of him - but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s stronger than either of thek, just that they’d rather not solo him (and risk unnecessary injury).
Also, Sombra nearly won in his episode by sheer virtue of traps and planning, with hardly any personal involvement. Attacking him directly, on his own turf, at the peak of his power on the basis of a power level advantage would be absurd. Sombra’s kind of a huge question mark, beyond “at least very high level unicorn, likely superequestrian”.
And unless this is tetra-Princess Twilight (in which case, where’s normal Twilicorn and why are Starlight and Starswirl so high?), I don’t know any basis whatsoever for ranking her above Celestia, and certainly not Shining Love Chrysalis.
@Backgroundpony
Yes i agree. Sunset is OP in the meta. She best girl and wins every single popularity poll she enters, but in magic power level she’s not there with Twi and Starlight. Twi and Starlight practice everyday and keep each other sharp (at least in S6 and S7). To have Sunset be at their level without training just because she’s “Sunset Shimmer aka Best Girl and Celestia’s other top student”, would be disservice to BOTH Starlight and Twilight.
But you’re really downplaying the stuff that Sunset has faced. If you count how many villains Sunset has taken down (admittedly with transformation and other hax) then she pretty much fought more villains with magic than Starlight ever did. Starlight vs Chrysalis? Starlight nerfed. Hard. Starlight vs Juniper? No magic. Nerfed. Starlight vs Maulworf? Maulworf immune, admittedly Starlight coulda done something but it wasn’t her “time to shine.” NERFED
Starlight vs PoS? She wasn’t being serious, PoS weakened, it was 2v1. Unsatisfying conclusion. For someone who is amazing at offensive magic, Starlight NEVER conclusively won a single battle with her magic. Ever. That is freaking bullshit.
Conclusion: Sunset is good, but Starlight and Twilight are TOP TIER elites. Maybe Sunset was there at one point in her life, but right now she’s probably lost some of her edge.
@UntiltheBalloons
I buy that. Your lifting analogy sold me that argmument. I changed my mind; Starlight isn’t necessarily stronger than Twi, she’s just better at beam, manipulation and destructive spells because she practices them a lot.
@Backgroundpony
I agree with genervt. She won’t just lie on her back even if she got magic drained when her friends are in trouble.
But it still wouldn’t make her Twilight level or Starlight level even. I guess the lifting analogy works the same; Sunset has lost a lot of muscle mass and even gained some fat because she’s not training, so even if she’s got the genetics she shouldn’t stand a chance against any of those two.
Re: Starlight & Twilight vs Shadow
Try bench pressing as much as you can before you get to “clearly struggling” weight.
Now, don’t try bench pressing twice that amount, ‘cause you’ll be lucky to get the bar up before dropping it on your neck.
Point is, that last 20% makes a big difference and can be enough to separate “barely struggling” from catastrophic failure. Starlight Glimmer only needs to be 20% as strong, by that (admittedly yay -pulled) number, as pre-weakened Twilight to make the difference.
Additionally, Starlight specifically mentioned that she’s “studied” her offensive beam spell for years, in her introductory episode. Her comment is only relevant if practicing said beam increases output efficiency, in which case hers is likely higher than Twilight’s, given that Twilight’s never been the violent type. She doesn’t need to be as strong to carry equal weight in a beam fight.
@tehwatever
Celestia said Twilight has the most raw magical power she has ever seen. That alone puts Sunset below Twilight and Starlight. Rating her at Mi Amore Cadenza´s level looks fine because she did not got what she wanted (Becoming an alicorn to stand next to Celestia) as fast as she wanted before she ran away to the human world.
In Sunset´s world she was Nr. 2 in the power hierachy under Celestia. She prepared to overthrow Celestia. (Heck if she saw Twilight with Tirek she probably died of panic)
@genervt
Compared to the stuff Twilight and Starlight are “not the best at,” Sunset’s “flaws” are nothing–adorable even.
No. I won’t accept Sunset being equally as powerful as Starlight and Twilight (who are top tier casters) unless she starts practicing again. Sunset’s already objectively the best girl in the eyes of the brony fandom. Having her be magically at Twilight level without much practice is Overpowered.
Could Gohan be stronger than both Goku and Vegeta? It’s implied that he could. But Gohan decides to just settle with a normal human life, be an academic and not train at all. Is he strong? Yes, he is still top 5 strongest fighter of his universe. But he’s he’s not at the level of Goku and Vegeta.
@Paradox_Brony
Sunset on the same level as Starlight and Twilight is very possible and may even be the case but PLEASE DON’T. She’s already best girl at literally EVERYTHING so having her be equivalent to BOTH Starlight or Twilight would rob them of their only edge against Sunset: which is their high magical skills.
Starlight and Twilight spend their waking hours practicing their art, while Sunset spend her time building back her reputation and climbing social ladders. To have Sunset be their magical equal would imply that Sunset could easily surpass both of them if she had been practicing. Also Sunset already has the best transformation in the whole show.
Unless you’re saying that Sunset has more or less the same talent as both Starlight and Twilight–which I agree. But if “out of practice Sunset” is equal to current Twilight or Starlight then that’s going to be a problem.
This is reasonable, though I would like to see the missing villains added. Nightmare, Daybreaker, Discord, Demon Shimmer, the Sirens.
And even though we haven’t really seen her use her magic, and she might be out of practice, I still say Sunset is on an even power level of Starlight and Twilight.
Daybraker also happens to be a figment of Starlight’s imagination.
Daybreaker also had too much insight into Celestia’s psyche to realistically be a mere figment of Starlight’s imagination, since Starlight couldn’t have known her so well (Celestia seemed to be taking the things she was saying quite personally). I think Celestia genuinely does fear that she is powerful enough that if she went off the deep end, Nightmare Moon couldn’t take her in a straight fight, and Daybreaker was a manifestation of her fears bleeding into the dream.
At that point, Sombra isn’t even really a “pony”, more an animalistic manifestation of his own malice, until the end of the episode. Undead wraiths being more powerful than their living counterparts is a pretty standard convention.
As for his army, besides Starlight’s anger bottle, Twilight Sparkle easily enthralled the entirety of Ponyville waaay back when. A common monarch butterfly could hypnotize Opalescence. Fluttershy’s Stare could be amplified to effect an entire swarm of bats.
Magically controlling an army honestly doesn’t seem that big a deal, even assuming he was.
It could just be your run of the mill horde-of-darkness or fear-driven army (definitely Sombra’s style there), or technologically mind-controlled (those helmets?).
Dark magic is, again, a huge question mark. We have basically zero indication what it can do or how it differs from normal magic.
Yeah that bothers me too. Sombra is freaking RIDICULOUS. He conjures up a city size storm clouds like nothing. AND his infamous “dark magic” is very powerful. It is perhaps THE strongest Manipulation-Type magic the show’s got so far. In the alternate timeline, Sombra actually controlled a WHOLE ARMY with mind control. Not even Starlight Glimmer has done anything of that scale, and she’s really good with Manipulation spells.
Though, if left unchecked, Starlight COULD probably do something similar. Her “anger bottle” spell infects nearby ponies and made them a proxy of her anger. She literally made them agents of her will.
I’d rank him Sombra > Twilight >= Starlight. Now SOMBRA…I think HE can solo Pony of Shadow…
@AC97
Discord, Tirek(Equestria absorbed), Goddess-Princesses, Sombra, PoS and Chrysalis (fully fed) are the strongest ones out there.
If you’re just going with “just ponies.” You have Starswirl >= Twilight >= Starlight. Then you have the upper-mid tier like Cadence Armor and Sunset.
You know, that reminds me…
How the hell is Star Swirl so far above Celestia, or even above her in the first place? Also, Twilight is, to quote the PoS, “almost” as strong as Star Swirl, presumably because she hasn’t been an alicorn for that long, Star Swirl being a much more experienced mage, and/or her being a bit weakened.
Starlight being up there with Tirek in terms of raw power really doesn’t add up either, Chrysalis’ power really depends on a few factors, and Shining Armor should probably be higher too, so in conclusion, this tier list is nonsense.
@Paradox_Brony
Nah, she may not be weak, but her being rusty would hold her back a lot, if you’re being fair.
Edited
Sombra I would say is ambiguous;
On one hand, both Celestia and Luna went to take care of him - but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s stronger than either of thek, just that they’d rather not solo him (and risk unnecessary injury).
Also, Sombra nearly won in his episode by sheer virtue of traps and planning, with hardly any personal involvement. Attacking him directly, on his own turf, at the peak of his power on the basis of a power level advantage would be absurd. Sombra’s kind of a huge question mark, beyond “at least very high level unicorn, likely superequestrian”.
And unless this is tetra-Princess Twilight (in which case, where’s normal Twilicorn and why are Starlight and Starswirl so high?), I don’t know any basis whatsoever for ranking her above Celestia, and certainly not Shining Love Chrysalis.
Yes i agree. Sunset is OP in the meta. She best girl and wins every single popularity poll she enters, but in magic power level she’s not there with Twi and Starlight. Twi and Starlight practice everyday and keep each other sharp (at least in S6 and S7). To have Sunset be at their level without training just because she’s “Sunset Shimmer aka Best Girl and Celestia’s other top student”, would be disservice to BOTH Starlight and Twilight.
But you’re really downplaying the stuff that Sunset has faced. If you count how many villains Sunset has taken down (admittedly with transformation and other hax) then she pretty much fought more villains with magic than Starlight ever did. Starlight vs Chrysalis? Starlight nerfed. Hard. Starlight vs Juniper? No magic. Nerfed. Starlight vs Maulworf? Maulworf immune, admittedly Starlight coulda done something but it wasn’t her “time to shine.” NERFED
Starlight vs PoS? She wasn’t being serious, PoS weakened, it was 2v1. Unsatisfying conclusion. For someone who is amazing at offensive magic, Starlight NEVER conclusively won a single battle with her magic. Ever. That is freaking bullshit.
Conclusion: Sunset is good, but Starlight and Twilight are TOP TIER elites. Maybe Sunset was there at one point in her life, but right now she’s probably lost some of her edge.
Sunsetty is best girl, but on the magical power scale I can not put her higher.
And Shimmy has no horn there.
So they were dangerous and it took courage to stand up to them.
Don´t see the contradiction here.
“in the realm of the blind the one eyed man is king”
All of them had magic.
Dangerous in a enviorment without magic.
All of them were dangerous foes.
You don´t give Shimmy enough credit.
I buy that. Your lifting analogy sold me that argmument. I changed my mind; Starlight isn’t necessarily stronger than Twi, she’s just better at beam, manipulation and destructive spells because she practices them a lot.
@Backgroundpony
I agree with genervt. She won’t just lie on her back even if she got magic drained when her friends are in trouble.
But it still wouldn’t make her Twilight level or Starlight level even. I guess the lifting analogy works the same; Sunset has lost a lot of muscle mass and even gained some fat because she’s not training, so even if she’s got the genetics she shouldn’t stand a chance against any of those two.
Remember; no friendship magic hax.
Try bench pressing as much as you can before you get to “clearly struggling” weight.
Now, don’t try bench pressing twice that amount, ‘cause you’ll be lucky to get the bar up before dropping it on your neck.
Point is, that last 20% makes a big difference and can be enough to separate “barely struggling” from catastrophic failure. Starlight Glimmer only needs to be 20% as strong, by that (admittedly yay -pulled) number, as pre-weakened Twilight to make the difference.
Additionally, Starlight specifically mentioned that she’s “studied” her offensive beam spell for years, in her introductory episode. Her comment is only relevant if practicing said beam increases output efficiency, in which case hers is likely higher than Twilight’s, given that Twilight’s never been the violent type. She doesn’t need to be as strong to carry equal weight in a beam fight.
Two of the things was the same she has gone through. And the other was depowered fishmonsters in a desert.
She faced the Sirens, Midnight Sparkle and Gaea Everfree.
She also never lived in an Equestria where Celestia was not the top dog.
Before Tirek steals her magic she would rather give it to Twily.
It might even have been enough to secure Twilys victory.
Shimmy was never a coward.
More likely she would lie on the side because of magic drain.
I just meant by seeing the power gap.
It is more likely that she would support her friend.
Celestia said Twilight has the most raw magical power she has ever seen. That alone puts Sunset below Twilight and Starlight. Rating her at Mi Amore Cadenza´s level looks fine because she did not got what she wanted (Becoming an alicorn to stand next to Celestia) as fast as she wanted before she ran away to the human world.
In Sunset´s world she was Nr. 2 in the power hierachy under Celestia. She prepared to overthrow Celestia. (Heck if she saw Twilight with Tirek she probably died of panic)
Edited because: Adding
Compared to the stuff Twilight and Starlight are “not the best at,” Sunset’s “flaws” are nothing–adorable even.
No. I won’t accept Sunset being equally as powerful as Starlight and Twilight (who are top tier casters) unless she starts practicing again. Sunset’s already objectively the best girl in the eyes of the brony fandom. Having her be magically at Twilight level without much practice is Overpowered.
Could Gohan be stronger than both Goku and Vegeta? It’s implied that he could. But Gohan decides to just settle with a normal human life, be an academic and not train at all. Is he strong? Yes, he is still top 5 strongest fighter of his universe. But he’s he’s not at the level of Goku and Vegeta.
She is not the best at figuring out magic or waking up on Mondays.
Sunset on the same level as Starlight and Twilight is very possible and may even be the case but PLEASE DON’T. She’s already best girl at literally EVERYTHING so having her be equivalent to BOTH Starlight or Twilight would rob them of their only edge against Sunset: which is their high magical skills.
Starlight and Twilight spend their waking hours practicing their art, while Sunset spend her time building back her reputation and climbing social ladders. To have Sunset be their magical equal would imply that Sunset could easily surpass both of them if she had been practicing. Also Sunset already has the best transformation in the whole show.
Unless you’re saying that Sunset has more or less the same talent as both Starlight and Twilight–which I agree. But if “out of practice Sunset” is equal to current Twilight or Starlight then that’s going to be a problem.
And even though we haven’t really seen her use her magic, and she might be out of practice, I still say Sunset is on an even power level of Starlight and Twilight.
Daybreaker also had too much insight into Celestia’s psyche to realistically be a mere figment of Starlight’s imagination, since Starlight couldn’t have known her so well (Celestia seemed to be taking the things she was saying quite personally). I think Celestia genuinely does fear that she is powerful enough that if she went off the deep end, Nightmare Moon couldn’t take her in a straight fight, and Daybreaker was a manifestation of her fears bleeding into the dream.
@tehwatever
Being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian then, got it.
Edited