Season 7 Episode Discussion [Speculation, Discussion, Spoilers] (SPOILER YOUR LEAKS)

@DanielTepesKraus  
She indirectly caused them. It’s not really her (well maybe it is now) fault Equestria really sucks at defending itself.

@DanielTepesKraus  
Yeah, Starlight’s a selfish bitchcunt no matter how you slice it.

@DanielTepesKraus
 
Her selfish motive didn’t feel as consciously “selfish” to me in the light of the beginning of Crystalling. We saw inside of her head and she wasn’t thinking “Oh woe is me. Isn’t it awful that he didn’t stick around for ME?” She started hearing RINGING in her head. Her body started to shake. She was “triggered” in near the actual definition of the term just thinking about seeing Sunburst again. You don’t react like that because you’re selfish and full of yourself.
 
She wasn’t trying to destroy time for petty revenge. At any point. She was trying to ruin Twilight’s life and didn’t even conceive of the idea that Twilight would that important to Equestria.
 
I don’t even mind if someone doesn’t think what she’s done is justifyable. I just wish that people would give her credit for actually TRYING. For trying earnestly to improve herself.

@gingerninja666
 
She didn’t know the consequences of her actions. She wasn’t actively trying to “destroy time.”

@Jarkes  
So she’s an idiot savant on top of all that?
 
Perfected time travel, but unable to fathom that it would change anything.
 
And, never saw it do that somehow.
 
Really, how come she never saw the effects of her own interference?

@PonyPon
 
She thought it would ruin Twilight’s life. That was the extent of what she thought would happen.
 
Her philosophy was based around the idea that friendships born out of differences ultimately amount to nothing and are doomed to disintegrate. (Remember how Sugar Belle believed a single pointless disagreement between the cast was a sign of their friendship ending?) She didn’t believe that the cast amounted to anything because friendships like theirs are weak.
 
This is why I don’t get when people say that Twilight never debunked Starlight’s philosophy. The very existence of the cast as a force capable of affecting such change, and managing to triumph again and again in spite of, nay, sometimes BECAUSEof their differences, was a direct refutation of Starlight’s entire worldview. If Starlight accepted that the cast were needed for Equestria to survive, then she’s admitting that she’s full of shit.

One thing that really bothers me about the whole Sunset versus Starlight debate is that the anti-Sunset crowd likes to parrot repeatedly that “Sunset wasn’t really punished” for what she did and makes her out to be the Spawn of Satan who was evil from birth and was then “brainwashed” to be good.
 
Sunset was a petty bitch who wanted something too soon (or could never have in the first place, going by the Tree), ran away when she couldn’t get it and decided to be “Princess” of the Fall Formal for several years because that’s as close as she could get. Then she steals the Element of Magic to become a “real” one but instead it turns her into a monster, but she’s quickly defeated.
 
Going by just about every other major villain in FiM that’s pretty tame, and it’s nothing whatsoever compared to what Starlight has done. Starlight nearly killed everyone in Equestria just to get back at Twilight, and the fact it wasn’t on purpose makes it even worse. And Starlight has never been really punished but instead was repeatedly rewarded over and over again, by being made Twilight’s student for starters and then reuniting with Sunburst. Starlight has everything she really wanted now.
 
The equivalent for Sunset would’ve been if she got along merrily with the Humane Five after climbing out of the crater at the end of EqG 1 and then shortly became a Princess, thus having no redemption story and getting what she wanted in the first place without ever being punished. I like it better actually that Sunset’s probably never going to ascend, both because she’s outgrown that desire and because she’s being punished for what she did by being cut off.

@Background Pony #270E
 
Just using terms like “punishment” and “reward” strips entire episodes of their contexts to me. Like, her being Twilight’s pupil doesn’t cause her happiness. It’s actually been the source of a lot of stress for her. Her reuniting with Sunburst was a harrowing experience for her and it almost didn’t work out.
 
About the punishment point btw. Sunset was punished because she actually damaged something. She broke the school so she had to help fix it. When Starlight actually caused damage, she had to fix it (like fixing the castle after ruining it in Every Little Thing she does). The problem is that none of Starlight’s crimes left any collateral damage. What’s she meant to do, go to the alternate timelines that no longer exist and stop them from happening? The only thing she messed with was the Cutie map… which she had to fix (as shown by Spice up your Life and the reveal that she’s been getting it working again)

@Josh103  
@Jarkes  
i’ve said it before, but even just manipulating time to destroy the life of one single person is already pretty horrific and unforgivable. even destroying the life of a single person via entirely mundane means is pretty unforgivable. her causing all that death and suffering and risking time itself without even realizing it (or caring all that much) just makes it worse.
 
@gingerninja666  
what it boils down to, to me at least, is if they’re going to make a character be that evil then they can’t just write it off in the montage and the “uh-oh spaghettios she said she was sorry” way they did, and if they want to reform a character in an “uh-oh spaghettios she said she was sorry” kind of way and a brief montage then they probably shouldn’t depict her as being any worse than diamond tiara or suri polomare was.

@PonyPon  

 
Well… yeah? Have you seen any of her episodes? Starlight’s a genius when it comes to magic, but an absolute mess at everything else. She’s outright incapable of predicting the consequences of her actions, and it’s her biggest ongoing problem.
 
I find it funny how people kept saying that she should stop using magic all the time, but that was actually a bit of a red herring. “To Change a Changeling” showed how she can avoid using magic at all, and still be blindsided by a massive flaw in her ‘brilliant’ plan.
 
Like Twilight’s anxiety, Rarity’s drama, Fluttershy’s shyness, Dash’s… everything and Pinkie’s childishness, it’s her core character flaw and something I’m not thinking she’s overcoming any time soon.

@DanielTepesKraus
 
And that’s the thing. I thought season 6 and 7 were dedicated to showing that that montage wasn’t entirely accurate (like the season 3 finale wasn’t) and Star actually DOES have a lot to learn.
 
No Second Prances has her going from MAne 6 member to MAne 6 member, just like she did in that montage, and pissing all of them off one by one, with the end summation being that no, she’s actually kind of shit at making friends.
 
Then in TWABA, she has a breakdown in her old village and needs Trixie to drag her away, because she feels like she’s a complete monster who should never be entrusted with anything ever again.

@DanielTepesKraus  

 
The problem is, by saying that you’ve condemned Discord, Sunset, and probably Luna too. In fact they’re worse, as their actions weren’t nearly so specifically targeted, nor in response to real, intentional harm done to them.

Starlight’s montage only makes sense if it was a condensed flash-forward, because in the next season (and even now) she’s nowhere near that friendly with the Mane Six.

@Background Pony #270E
 
It baffles me honestly. PEople take that montage as more gospel than full episodes that were actually made. It’s laser focused in on to the exclusion of everything else it feels like.

@Background Pony #270E  
It’s not like it hasn’t been done before. Remember Twilight’s flyby after she got her wings, where as the next episode she can barely stay aloft?

@Philweasel  
She was even worse in EqG1, which took place almost directly after that finale. She can only stay in the air for a few seconds if even that.

@gingerninja666  
well, she is a complete monster who should never be entrusted with anything ever again. i mean, what happens when she decides to erase rainbow dash from the timeline for taking the last potato at dinner or something?
 
@Philweasel  
well yeah, they were condemned for it. difference is luna and discord were actually punished for it, and none of them were forgiven up front: luna was ostracized by the ponies when she first appeared, the mane six never missed a chance to remind discord that he wasn’t forgiven, and the entire school treated sunset as an outcast. that’s honestly part of the reason i had so much trouble swallowing starlight being rewarded for being a bitch instead. i’m actually surprised luna doesn’t hold a grudge against starlight, considering the extent of luna’s evildoing was a 45 minute slapfight with her sister and she got 1000 years on the moon for it.

Really though, Uncommon Bond shows just how far she’s come. Before, the mere thought of reuniting with Sunburst gave Starlight PTSD. Now she’s super-excited at the thought of seeing him.

@DanielTepesKraus
 
But if you know you’re a monster and have a strong emotional reaction trying to avoid a situation that lead to you doing monstrous things in the past, are you truly a complete monster?

@DanielTepesKraus  

 
You do know she’s had two whole seasons of character development, and now is normally the one advising against using magic to solve your problems? You seem to only be talking about season 5 Starlight, which was a very long time ago.
 

 
Discord was, but Luna was only punished for it because Celestia lacked any option but ‘to the moon’. That’s a failure of power, not an intentional desire to punish.
 

 
Which happened in “No Second Prances”.
 

 
Pinkie seems intent on rubbing this in every chance she gets, she’s mentioned it three times at my counting.
 
…plus they generally only do this when Discord’s being an asshole, which is like all the time. When Starlight screws up, you bet she gets the Twilight ‘I’m disappointed in you’ speech.
 

 
Ugh, don’t remind me…
 
…as many people have pointed out, for Nightmare Night to be a thing and Luna to be so feared, there has to be a tiny bit more to it than that. Especially since Luna’s almost as bad as Starlight at bringing up the ‘did you know I used to be evil? True story!’.

Image relevant.  

 
And with that, I must be to bed. I is tired, and have work tomorrow.

@Philweasel  
that’s not much, though. having the socially insensitive one casually remark on it a couple times when otherwise being beloved by all and handed everything she could ever want isn’t exactly mistrust or a punishment. people say worse things to me on this site for calling celestia a tyrant or spike a slave. that’s kind of my issue with her “reformation”.
 
though, speaking of celestia (and she’s a hell of a lot more interesting than that mary sue starlight) i would love to know the circumstances behind luna’s 1000 year exile. either celestia tried to free her sooner or didn’t. if she did, what did she try and why didn’t it work, and if she didn’t why not? basically i would love to buy the whole “she’s a great benevolent leader” thing, as i’m sure that’s the writer’s intent, but they seem to have done tons to imply she’s at best laughably inept and at worse actually corrupt.

@Philweasel
 

 
I think I remember a couple of those incidents, but to me the ones that stick out the most is when Rainbow is the one who brings up how awful she was.
 
Like the time when Applejack got angry at her for it, which I honestly never understood. All other things aside, Starlight did objectively use to be a horrible person – what is pretending nothing bad ever happened supposed to accomplish?
 
@DanielTepesKraus
 

 
… they are?

@FrustrationInExcelsis  
From certain perspectives.

There’s still people using the Tyrantlestia meme in 2017?