@Ardashir
I don’t see that happening

Then Lois Lane shows up to beat the daylights out of Celestia.

@biznizz  
And that’s what i mean, who? What DC fan was even left to care? Most DC fan’s bailed on the books in the 70’s and 80’s, and the only elements that a majority of people liked (The Neil Adams Batman books, Legion of Superheroes, and Teen Titans) all remained intact. That, and people where instantly hooked onto the New Universe because of the influx of amazing stories on all ends that came to fruition in the first 2 years. Any neighsayers of the Post-COIE Universe weren’t the majority, and most people got used to it pretty fast. Post-COIE nailed the viewerbase in less than a year and sales already jumped up 500% and kept a steady pace for at least 10 years, then after the speculator boom they STILL managed to get many book’s selling over 100,000 each. They got Sandman, Swamp Thing, Animal Man, and all these other books that appealed to a wider demographic and where unique, it wasn’t until the around 2000-2001 when Marvel finally caught back up because of their movie franchises peaking interest and the introduction of the Ultimate Universe, doubling sales dramatically. DC mistepped a little during this period, trying to catch back up, we got some terrible stories ill admit, but they got their grove back, and still managed to be a solid contender until 2011.
 
It’s been 3 years, and most of the good DC books are either discontinued, forgotten, gone off the deep end, stories that could have easily been told Pre-Nu52, or are here a little to late for most of the readers who have already jumped ship. People dont care for the changes, the huge overhaul of everyone’s history, AGAIN (seriously the last reboot was after 50 years of history, this one is only after 25) but this time… maybe people just couldn’t catch on fast enough, and the viewerbase is lower than it’s been since that same period in the 70’s. Listen, maybe you’re right that both continuities have their problems, but at the end of the day, Post-COIE convinced people fast to accept it’s existence as legit and a good and intelligent step forward not only for the company, but for comic’s in general. Maybe the Nu52-verse can pull out some greater comics in the future, but seeing how sales are dropping, talent is leaving, and most people are really sick of the management at DC nowadays… it may be unfortunately too late.
 
… But hey Batman v. Superman looks cool at least.

@TheUltimateAvenger  
Actually I’ve met very few people that hated the Post-Crisis era, most comic book fan’s consider it the pinnacle of DC storytelling and still cherish it today. I don’t know these people you’re are talking about, but i hate to say it, they are the vast minority.
 
You keep misunderstanding me. Im saying that, at the time, after the Crisis reboot, there were people angry that DC chucked most of their history.
 
How time and stories had to pass people adjusted to it. They did not instantaneously like the era utill years into it.

@biznizz  
Fair enough, but again with the looming Crisis 2015, i don’t think it will ever get the chance either, so it’s a little disappointing.
 
Actually I’ve met very few people that hated the Post-Crisis era, most comic book fan’s consider it the pinnacle of DC storytelling and still cherish it today. I don’t know these people you’re are talking about, but i hate to say it, they are the vast minority.
 
Really? Like most of the darker Batman stories feeling really out of place in the same universe that brought us the Rainbow Bear? Like Superman’s dilemna’s against killing General Zod or fighting Doomsday against a a perfect do-gooder Superman that could survive the Big Bang? The convoluted as shit Wonder Woman stories? Most Post-Crisis stories feel nothing like Pre-Crisis stories, it’s such a huge departure it’s not even funny.
 
Yeah there is, the main guy that wanted to reboot both Wonder Woman and Superman for Marvel, John Byrne, was the same person who encouraged many of the publishers and editors at DC to go along with the reboot, and once they did, he jumped ship to go reboot Superman and Wonder Woman… which he did. That’s the point, DC managed to pull itself back up, while Marvel fell victim to the same crap that DC fell into for a couple of years, terrible management.
 
And the reason DC was in such a rut (and the reason for most of the bad stories and editorial issues for the last 10-15 years at DC) was Dan DiDio the Editor and Chief… the man that is still the Editor and Chief of DC over 15 years later. So instead of actually a complete shake up of editors, writers, and artists (like what happened with DC after COIE), they kept the same people that they had before the reboot anyway… thus the same problems before the reboot prevailed… so what’s the point?
 
I didn’t really see this as a fight, i can respect and understand your stance, but you’re right, wrong place, wrong time.

@TheUltimateAvenger  
And they reintroduced a lot of the stuff over a period of 25 years, so it’s not that big of a problem.
 
Keywords here being highlighted. While this is still only three years since the reboot. While previously, they had two-and-a-half decades to do their own thing with before reintroducing old stories & aspects with time.
 
You can’t tell me that more people preferred the character as they where before the crisis, to how they where after.
 
And you can’t tell me there weren’t people who were just as angry about the PostCrisis era as there are with those who are angry with the New52.
 
Plus, a lot of great new story material was brought for the Post-Crisis universe that never could have fit with the old universe… Such as? No really, I really am curious about said stories here. Especially when events like Infinite Crisis brought things more in line with some of the old disgarded PreCrisis history.
 
There is also no evidence that the reboots for Wonder Woman and Superman were hold overs from the failed Marvel deal (which I admit I had never heard of before now). Marvel’s bankrupcy in 1996 was not due to any big publishing push by DC, but was nigh-on self sabotage by Perelman, and DC going on in the void while Marvel was crippled was the main reason they overtook the market at the time.
 
But, I have to ask if this is really an appropriate place for this little nerd fight we’re having.

@biznizz  
Yes, they got rid of the stories that noone cared about but still managed to keep a lot of the lore and character development that people actually liked. The Batman books where kept the same, as well as the Teen Titans and Legion of Superheroes. They only changed the backstories and powers of characters that really needed it, like Green Lantern, The Flash (since Barry Allen was dead), Wonder Woman, and even Superman. You can’t tell me that more people preferred the character as they where before the crisis, to how they where after. The only baggage the was lost was the one that noone would miss. And they reintroduced a lot of the stuff over a period of 25 years, so it’s not that big of a problem. Plus, a lot of great new story material was brought for the Post-Crisis universe that never could have fit with the old universe… Most people agree that as great as the New 52 stories are, they aren’t anything you wouldn’t see out of the old universe, and would fit pretty nicely.
 
Yes, the difference being is that this time, noone asked for it. It wasn’t because of confusing stories, and the lack of readers (far from it, they where actually doing pretty good before the reboot) it was because they wanted to catch up with Marvel… and they succeeded… for about a year and then sales plummeted to even LESS than before the reboot. This was the exact opposite of what happened with Crisis on Infinite Earth’s where sales increased dramatically for some books… before the reboot, Marvel almost bought out all the characters for DC because DC was doing so bad comic book wise, so they where gonna license their characters off to Marvel to imprint on them. Even Marvel executives actually considered passing, because they thought that the character’s couldnt be salvaged, but Jim Shooter convinced them otherwise. If it wasn’t for an anti-trust case involving Marvel buying out OTHER comic publishers, Superman would be a Marvel character. THIS is why they changed everything, reworked the entire creative staff and editors (something they didn’t even bother doing for the New 52 in any meaningful way, in fact they actually drove away plenty of great new talent) because noone liked the books or the stories except for a choice few and they needed a change or they where doomed. And seeing how DC rose for a while to the top of the industry in sales and stories, along with a merchandising bonanza with Batman, while Marvel later filed for Bankruptcy… i think it worked out.
 
God i should have worded that better, i don’t even know why i put in Hypertime and Alternate Universes… brain fart. But i’ll admit, both reboot’s had their fair share of stupidity at first (all that alternate universe stuff now happened on one earth in one timeline… except for all that other alternate universes stuff we dont need) so i’ll give it a pass.
 
Yeah, they “tinkered” with it, but never went all out with it. Remember, people hated every single reboot that marvel ever even implied to try to do. ESPECIALLY Spider-Man (fucking One More Day). Hell, the minor reboot of Heroes Reborn is considered one of the worst Marvel decisions of all time… and it was temporary. Marvel doesnt need to reboot because they’re smart enough to just create the Ultimate Universe… THERE an alternate universe with new start’s for the characters, but not fucking up any main series continuity, and if you don’t like it… FINE, you still have the other continuity you love so much.
 
With the onset of the Crisis 2015, which is supposedly gonna bring back the old Multiverse and possibly abolish the new one, i think the better solution would be to make both Universes valid, and publish them like the Ultimates line, thus nothing of significant was lost and nobody loses anything.

@TheUltimateAvenger  
When DC first rebooted the Universe, they had a valid reason, there were very, very, VERY few good stories that existed before, and those that existed really felt out of place in the old way’s of Superman shooting rainbows out of his hands.
 
…That’s a valid reason? Really? So the various Crises on Multiple Earths, Great Darkness Saga, Justice League of America, Batman, Green Lantern, Superman, etc stuff weren’t good stories? Kay. And here I thought it was because the editors were losing track of what Earths they had with what story since it was pre-widely avaliable computers and internet.
 
I don’t deny that i love Pre-Crisis Superman in his own goofy way, but the change to better stories and character development was great, and they didn’t get rid of anything that people really liked, like they did with THIS reboot, removing over 25 years of really good Superman stories, and mostly throwing them out, or recreating them in less than satisfying ways.
 
Except for the fact that, for the most part, they did. At least in some places. There were examples of them radically altering properties like Superman, Wonder Woman & Justice League while leaving others alone like Batman & Green Lantern. Sound familiar?
 
And i’ll take the goofy antics of “Hypertime” and “Alternate Universes” to “Every major Batman/Green Lantern/Justice League event happened in the span of 5 years” Yes, batman went through 4 robins in a span of 5 years.
 
Hypertime? You mean the concept to have multiple universes without a multiverse that was so overly complicated that not even the people who came up with it could really explain it? Also, there are “alternate universes” in the New 52. They’re being explored in Earth-2, Multiversity, and Justice League 3000 (which has actually managed to solve a major gripe I legitmately had with the future. Legion’s back to being the main DCU future again, JL3K is an alternate future with upcoming Ted Kord Blue Beetle & Booster Gold). As for the timeline compression, yeah, that does really suck, even if at least 1 1/2-2 years have passed in-universe since the reboot.
 
But even then, i admit 1 reboot was pushing it, Marvel in all it’s convulted and sometimes terrible history has never rebooted itself, it sticks by it’s history and is proud of it.
 
Which is why they’ve tinkered with rewriting said history on multiple occasions, with such “experiments” as Spider-Man: Chapter One, that issue that tried to say that Aunt May gave birth to Peter as a teenager, and whatever nonsense they’ve recently done with Original Sin.

@biznizz  
Just because there was some bad, doesnt mean you through away everything at the drop of a hat. When DC first rebooted the Universe, they had a valid reason, there were very, very, VERY few good stories that existed before, and those that existed really felt out of place in the old way’s of Superman shooting rainbows out of his hands.
 
I don’t deny that i love Pre-Crisis Superman in his own goofy way, but the change to better stories and character development was great, and they didn’t get rid of anything that people really liked, like they did with THIS reboot, removing over 25 years of really good Superman stories, and mostly throwing them out, or recreating them in less than satisfying ways.
 
And i’ll take the goofy antics of “Hypertime” and “Alternate Universes” to “Every major Batman/Green Lantern/Justice League event happened in the span of 5 years” Yes, batman went through 4 robins in a span of 5 years.
 
But even then, i admit 1 reboot was pushing it, Marvel in all it’s convulted and sometimes terrible history has never rebooted itself, it sticks by it’s history and is proud of it. When we lost the Pre-Crisis verse, we still had the JSA and the All Star Squadron to keep the long and great history still there even in a small way, we still had 2 generations of the Teen Titans, we still had all those goofy Legion of Superhero comics… but with this new reboot, it’s all gone… DC lost it’s history… and that’s inexcusable to me.

@TheUltimateAvenger  
Crisis itself was a fine story, and true, there were some nice stories/books/etc that came out quickly soon after it.
 
But you seem to overlook just how much of a mess it really left all over the place, just like the New 52 is attacked for.
 
Ex. Superman was once Superboy, and Superboy had adventures with the Legion of Superheroes. Post Crisis: no more Superboy as Superman didn’t get his powers until he became an adult, but the Legion and it’s history has not changed, the adventures with Superboy/Supergirl included. They have to create an alternate universe Superboy, but since there was no more Multiverse, it has to come from stupid pocket universe.
 
Not to mention that Silver Age Superman, goofy and OP, is pretty much the UR example of Supes that most people think of, and is probably the most beloved until the DCAU version.
 
And preboot, despite the fact that you had critical darlings such as Morrison’s Batman and Blackest Night/Brightest Day, you had stuff like Cry For Justice, the nilhilistic ending of New Krypton/War of the Supermen, Countdown to Final Crisis, etc.
 
It’s all a matter of perspective.

@biznizz  
You shut your mouth. jk  
Seriously though, Crisis on Infinite Earth’s was good because it got rid of a lot of the crap in the DCU before, like Silver Age Superman and the works. But everybody liked the Post-Crisis universe, it brought out some of the best stories for the DCU.
 
There was no reason to reboot it, especially since many of the stories where best sellers and getting far more critical praise than anything at Marvel.
 
The New 52 only existed to get a quick buck, nothing more, nothing less.

@Flanagan  
Most of the current DC stuff isn’t actually all that bad. It’s just that they made the same mistake they made with the first Crisis: they wanted to revamp things, but not totally throw them all away.
 
Overall, there isn’t much more crap in New 52 then there was in the old continuity. Trust me, I’ve read both.

@Background Pony #BBD4  
He dealt with Lois Lane for 30+ years, he can keep up with anything.

OTP.

Flan, I knew it was ya as I saw it on my watchlist. Sweet.

@Gregorius  
Coming from DC’s generally awful ‘New 52’ string of comics… it’s essentially their equivalent of Marvel’s ‘Civil War’ back in 06

Well, at least it makes more sense than that out-of-nowhere crack ship of Princess Twilight and that ponified version of Peter Parker that exists for some reason.
 
@Prof.NightJack: I thought Wonder Woman’s unrequited love interest was Batman… where’s Wonder Woman × Superman coming from?

Implying that he can keep up with her.

@Trickquestion
 
Not gonna lie. I was almost gonna ask you about that, but chose to leave you alone XD

@Trickquestion  
Wait, those and Danpie. Can’t believe I forgot that one.

This and Diplight are the only two crossover ships that I really fancy.

@Shooting Dust  
It might either give their child the powers of superman turned up to 11 or mean he/she never runs out of power when not in the sunlight…or can also generate their own sunlight…..my good I love this ship!

So this is becoming a thing. Have to say, it’s not bad.
 
Beware, those who have the audacity to hurt Celestia.

I need more supelestia