redweasel

Fuzzbutt

@Zeb

thanks, I think I understand. I’ll try to use that as a warning next time.

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Zeb

Tag-Bot

@redweasel
Yeah I saw where it started. But the off-topic discussion didn’t need to go on as long as it did.

And I didn’t say it was bad to discuss things over multiple comments.
I said that when you reach a point where it’s a discussion on a topic that requires multiple paragraphs per comment, lasting an entire page of comments or more. That should be a sign that it might not be something meant for the comments under an image.

Perhaps I should have included: “Especially when the topic is unrelated to the image as well.”

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redweasel

Fuzzbutt

@Zeb

well, we were talking about monetizing pencils’ comic, and it sort of switched to copyright. why’s it bad to talk over multiple comments? doesn’t seem to be hurting anyone.

personally, I don’t want to talk about any of this stuff.

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Background Pony #A490

@redweasel
CAN’T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!?

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Zeb

Tag-Bot

The heck you all doin in here?
Copyright law? This is a comic about pony and satyr butts people!

But seriously. Let’s just stop all that here and now. If some of you want to continue discussing the finer points of Copyright law and it’s positives vs negatives. Make a forum thread on it. Or move to PMs. Once you get to the point of having to type multiple paragraphs to discuss your point of view, over multiple comments, that’s a strong sign you should probably be moving the discussion somewhere else.

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redweasel

Fuzzbutt

@Vinyl Fluff

so, if copyrights aren’t respected, we get theme parks that are geared towards our favorite games.

you don’t understand the rampant abuse that would happen without it.

today, right now, corporations are forcing artists to sell their creations to them, then profiting massively off of those creations with hardly any profit going to the artist, and almost no credit or attribution. artists are being sued for unintentionally infringing on copyright. you and I are both fans of a 7 season long toy commercial, because there is nothing else to compete with it. no one else is allowed to spit in the direction of my little pony, by law. the greatest forms of creative expression in our culture are superbowl commercials. there are even corporations sitting on copyrights and trademarks without using them at all, just to keep people from creating something that’s considered a privately owned idea. companies can and do produce horrible, low quality ripoffs, trying and succeeding in getting us to mistakenly buy them, and it’s all completely legal because they changed the look enough that it’s not worth trying to sue them. ratatoing was actually on sale in usa stores.

everyone talks like it’d be some orgy of corporate abuse if we dared deny the corporations the right to own our ideas, but the reality is that it’s already happening, and copyright just makes things worse.

rape

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Vinyl Fluff

What the Fluff?

@redweasel

@Vinyl Fluff

china isn’t the best example if you want to bring up a culture whose creative works aren’t censored. just saying.

Do you ever stick to what a person is talking about rather than just jumping around and shoving words into their mouth? I said nothing about censorship. I’m directly speaking about how they have zero respect for any copyrights that originate outside of their country and their government will not enforce global copyrights. So anything and everything is ripped off over there. For the love of God, they built an entire WoW/StarCraft-themed theme park without so much as asking Blizzard if it was OK, let alone licensing anything.

full

THAT is the kind of stuff you’d see without copyright law. You think it sucks because it keeps pony fan artists “down”, but you don’t understand the rampant abuse that would happen without it.

so mister “lol, black hat joke” loses people like me as a fan because he insists on originality, which sucks, ergo losing money. mister “oh my bob those pony butts are gorgeous” gets in legal shit if we try to repay him in anything other than completely useless upvotes. congratulations, everybody loses!

So a work needs to be personally enjoyed by you for it to be acceptable for the author to make money. Got it.

I think we are kind of perverted

Forgive me for not wanting to get into any further discussion on that subject, given that you and I had a long debate in the past oyouver whether or not rape was bad (contrary to your belief, it still is.)

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redweasel

Fuzzbutt

@Vinyl Fluff

china isn’t the best example if you want to bring up a culture whose creative works aren’t censored. just saying.

You might not be the intended audience if you don’t get the appeal, but he has every right to make money off HIS original work.

and pencils has every right to make money off of his work. but the law is injust, so mister “lol, black hat joke” loses people like me as a fan because he insists on originality, which sucks, ergo losing money. mister “oh my bob those pony butts are gorgeous” gets in legal shit if we try to repay him in anything other than completely useless upvotes. congratulations, everybody loses!

Dude, a good chunk of the public thinks we’re perverts only into the show for the porn. We don’t need to add fuel to that by publishing porn or near-porn works.

frankly, I think a bigger chunk of the public doesn’t know we exist, and don’t care what kind of porn we like. it’s just the noisy ones like tumblr that act like the world is on their side. you don’t need to help them do that.

I think we are kind of perverted, but people are wrong to think perverts are dangerous. so my sexual response has been diverted (or perverted) toward quadrupedal cartoon horses, so what? does that make it okay to deny my application despite my qualifications? does it make me likely to chase bipedal, human women down dark alleyways? does it stop me from truly loving someone (human, or not) who can accept that I like sexy ponies? people think perverts are all out of control violent criminals, and also fat and ugly. as long as we protect their virgin eyes from knowing that we exist, it’ll be easy for the SJWs to trick more people into thinking that way.

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Vinyl Fluff

What the Fluff?

@redweasel

@Kamazeustra

I could’ve just said “vinyl clearly doesn’t like etc” but instead I said “I interpreted that to mean vinyl doesn’t like etc.” it means I’m paying attention to their words, and my claim might be wrong. as apparently they think it is.

I love the comic. I have a dedicated Pencils folder specifically for it and his work. One of the only artists I’ve done so for.

and hurts artists far more than it protects them.

Look at China, where foreign copyrights don’t exist, to see how badly people would get ripped off.

a million times before I defended the right of xkcd to make money off of stupid stick figures that spout naively optimistic armchair philosophy.

Except it’s also got scientific humor, geek humor, math humor and more. You might not be the intended audience if you don’t get the appeal, but he has every right to make money off HIS original work.

the CCA was self-censoring, because marvel and dc both concluded “I’m not damning adult content as a whole, but we don’t need suggestive or higher SUPERHERO stuff in the public eye. it’ll only hurt us.” they were just trying to protect their image. it reminded me of what you were proposing.

Dude, a good chunk of the public thinks we’re perverts only into the show for the porn. We don’t need to add fuel to that by publishing porn or near-porn works.

You have this habit of taking people’s singular examples and spinning them off into pseudo-political blanket strawmen arguments.

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redweasel

Fuzzbutt

@Kamazeustra

if you never interpret what people say, you’re indistinguishable from a tape recorder. when I say “I interpeted that to mean…” it is wrong to call that an attack, or a straw-man. in fact, it’s an admission that what I think I know is not necessarily the truth. I could’ve just said “vinyl clearly doesn’t like etc” but instead I said “I interpreted that to mean vinyl doesn’t like etc.” it means I’m paying attention to their words, and my claim might be wrong. as apparently they think it is.

@Vinyl Fluff

I agree with you that he’d be batshit crazy to put this comic in bookstores, because he’d get shut down faster than you can say prosecution vulture. the only thing I didn’t agree on is the claim that copyright law exists for a good reason. it’s a bad law, exists for a bad reason, doesn’t stop tasteless ripoffs, and hurts artists far more than it protects them. I’d defend pencils’ right to make money off of this comic (if he wanted) a million times before I defended the right of xkcd to make money off of stupid stick figures that spout naively optimistic armchair philosophy.

the CCA was self-censoring, because marvel and dc both concluded “I’m not damning adult content as a whole, but we don’t need suggestive or higher SUPERHERO stuff in the public eye. it’ll only hurt us.” they were just trying to protect their image. it reminded me of what you were proposing.

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Vinyl Fluff

What the Fluff?

@redweasel

thus vinyl wants to make sure people aren’t allowed to encourage pencils to draw this stuff.

The F? No, I was explaining to someone that Pencils would have to be batshit crazy to attempt at getting his comic published and distributed at chains like Barnes & Noble. When I said “anyone could steal and profit off your work” I was referring to original content created by people, not pony artists. I’m talking people like Randall Monroe of xkcd, or Tom Fischbach of TwoKinds.

Hasbro owns the copyright to MLP. Whether you feel that copyright law is a good thing, bad thing, or half-way between, the fact of the matter is they’re a multi-billion dollar company. They have a franchise they have a legal obligation to protect. You go out here and infringe upon their copyright, and even worse, publish it and try to profit off it, you’re going to be spending some time in court with some very high-priced lawyers who will saddle you with a lawsuit so expensive your kids will still be paying it off.

The artist who sits at a con selling their artwork is a grey area. They’re technically breaking copyright but they’re small fish and Hasbro doesn’t really want to waste their time unless they become too visible to ignore (like what happened with Fighting is Magic.)

You start publishing a near-explicit pony comic that might fool the public into thinking it’s official stuff, and they’re going to gun for you, hard, and make you regret it.

As far as your reply concerning the Comics Code Authority, I’m not damning comic books and adult content as a whole. I’m saying we don’t need suggestive or higher PONY stuff in the public eye like in comic shops. That only hurts us.

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Kamazeustra

Goldenlöwe in Aeternum

@redweasel

“I interpreted that to mean…”, you have to recognize how not helpful to your own position that is. Straw-manning and putting words into other people’s mouths doesn’t do you any favors.

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Meanlucario

Time to get spooky

@redweasel
Yes they do, they just don’t take the case to court. Copyright goes both ways.

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redweasel

Fuzzbutt

@Meanlucario

what? most companies don’t infringe upon copyrights. they’re the ones suing us for infringing on copyrights, while they pump out their carbon copy formulaic shit that’s “original” b/c they changed the names/colors.

@Pagan

vinyl fluff said “Copyright laws exist for a reason. If they didn’t, anyone could steal and profit off your work.” I interpreted that to mean vinyl doesn’t like artists to benefit from using other works as inspiration (“stealing”), thus vinyl wants to make sure people aren’t allowed to encourage pencils to draw this stuff.

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Meanlucario

Time to get spooky

@Pagan
He’s likely thinking of Youtube’s system for copyright.

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Pagan

Gay Viking

@redweasel
How does “copyright is a double edged sword” = “if you want people to discourage pencils from drawing this comic, you’re entitled to your opinion I suppose”?

It just looks like you are creating a non-existent issue.

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Meanlucario

Time to get spooky

@redweasel
Vinyl is right, and it’s the reason that most companies don’t take their lawsuits to court, since they know that the odds are against them.

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redweasel

Fuzzbutt

@Vinyl Fluff

if you want people to discourage pencils from drawing this comic, you’re entitled to your opinion I suppose, but I would have to respectfully disagree. laws are made for a reason: to line the pockets of rich people, in this case. copyright law is a ridiculously single edged sword, in its current form. and pretending you can own an idea is little more than self-destructive hubris.

We don’t need to fuel that misconception by actually printing suggestive to pornographic works for public consumption and purchase at your local comic shop.

gee, where have I heard that one before.

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Vinyl Fluff

What the Fluff?

@redweasel

@Vinyl Fluff

no argument there. sad how corporations can censor us just by claiming they own something.

Wuh? They do own it. Copyright laws exist for a reason. If they didn’t, anyone could steal and profit off your work.

When it comes to C&Ds and such it does suck for fandoms who only want to express their love for a franchise, but those same rights also protect things. In the US you are automatically granted a copyright upon the creation of any work (unlike trademarks, which have to be applied for, copyright is explicitly implied at the moment of creation.) It strengthens your claim to file a copyright notice however (and you can also pay the fee to officially use the copyright symbol on your work.)

So let’s say you’re an artist with a popular webcomic with completely original characters and settings. Now a corporation comes along and decides to profit off your work and popularity. And since the copyright doesn’t exist, they print comic books compiling your webcomic and sell it across the world. Suddenly your work is stolen, a corporation is getting money and credit for your work, and you have no option but to accept it.

Copyright is most definitely a double-edged sword. It can hurt fans like us that just want to show the world how much we love something, but it also protects people.

In addition, as much as I love clop art along with the clean stuff as well, I would in no way want even the slightly suggestive stuff getting out to the public like the BP I replied to wants. We’ve got a bad enough rap with a lot of the public who thinks we’re nothing but a bunch of perverts into the show for the porn. We don’t need to fuel that misconception by actually printing suggestive to pornographic works for public consumption and purchase at your local comic shop.

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redweasel

Fuzzbutt

@Vinyl Fluff

no argument there. sad how corporations can censor us just by claiming they own something.

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Vinyl Fluff

What the Fluff?

@redweasel

@Vinyl Fluff

on the other hand, there is a long standing precedent for selling fanfiction. dragonlance and star wars come to mind.

also this isn’t an explicit comic.

Very, very rarely does it happen.

As far as whether or not it’s explicit by our definition is irrelevant. Hasbro would be very motivated against something that might confuse people on whether or not it’s official. Especially with such questionable content with racy and innuendo-filled stuff.

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redweasel

Fuzzbutt

@Vinyl Fluff

on the other hand, there is a long standing precedent for selling fanfiction. dragonlance and star wars come to mind.

also this isn’t an explicit comic.

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Vinyl Fluff

What the Fluff?

@Background Pony #AB3F

Hey you really should publish this anon pie adventure comic you’ll be real good i think it will make it big it will hope it gets in Florence South Carolina and what female pony anon going end up with. And please publish this comic and what I mean by published in comic stores in bars and Nobles store’s

That would be called copyright infringement. Drawing a fan comic and uploading it to the internet is one thing. Fanart is a murky grey area in the land of copyright, but most companies overlook it. Publish it and try to sell it? You’re going to have the company’s lawyers up your butt so fast you’ll be walking funny for a couple weeks.

Secondly, outside of the copyright issue, few stores will carry explicit comics. Even comic stores that do almost always put them in a slightly out-of-sight area so minors can’t access them.

There is zero chance of this getting published and distributed.

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Background Pony #0B9D

Hey you really should publish this anon pie adventure comic you’ll be real good i think it will make it big it will hope it gets in Florence South Carolina and what female pony anon going end up with. And please publish this comic and what I mean by published in comic stores in bars and Nobles store’s

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redweasel

Fuzzbutt

oh, this can’t be good

at least pinkie finally got her massage

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