@LuminoZero  

 
I’ll freely agree with the idea that Twilight comes off as a bit overbearing in the episode. There are two things that I think need to be said about this though. First, if someone you care about is in your charge and you honestly think that someone they are hanging out with might be a bad influence on them, even if you trust the individual you’ll probably be wary about the situation. Twilight does care about Starlight as more than a project, and I think is appropriately concerned given her history with Trixie.
 
Point number two is, Twilight is not entirely wrong either. Trixie, by the time Starlight brings her back to the castle, has spent enough time with her to probably know she’s Twilight’s protege. And what is one of the first things she reveals to Starlight?  

And then there’s how she gets Starlight to stay.  

And let’s not forget the big reveal.  

It’s kind of hard to say that Twilight was incorrect when Trixie flat out admits to having used Starlight’s friendship to finally beat Twilight at something. Trixie took advantage of a pony desperate to make a friend, and in doing so proved Twilight’s concerns entirely valid.
 
There is however something interesting that occurs once Trixie reveals what her intentions were. Starlight, rightfully upset over the situation, leaves quite distraught over having been fooled like that. And Trixie, in a manner very similar to Discord when he was reformed, suddenly realizes exactly what it is she has lost.  

I think that this is the real crux of the episode. Twilight is not a perfect teacher, but she had good reason to be concerned and (in my opinion) the best of intentions in her actions. What I do not think she expected, however, was Trixie’s reaction. And once she realized that Trixie actually had (perhaps without even realizing it herself) started to consider Starlight a friend, Twilight set out to make things right.  

It really is a situation where there was something to be learned on all sides. Twilight learned a bit about judging too quickly, Trixie learned the value of a friend, and Starlight made another step on the path to being a better pony.

@Background Pony #FC2F  
“You missed the point, it is not that Trixie is smug, it is that Trixie is not acting any differently. It makes her feel insincere and she was clearly antagonizing Twilight.”
 
Same song, different verse, over and over and over again. And I repeat, by Trixie standards her antagonizing was barely tepid, while Twilight’s response was even more aggresive. Don’t shout ‘bias’ before admitting to your own. Ignoring one character’s faults in a sitation and only focusing on the other? That wouldn’t pass in a fifth grade debate club.
 
“Also, no matter if you have a standoffish personality or not, if you don’t want people to think the worst of you, you need to show some sincerity.”
 
Good thing Twilight was warm and sincere in response to Trixie reappearing-oh wait. :/ Twilight’s hostility fed Trixie’s standoffish personality, and confirmed that they wouldn’t be friends then because Twilight didn’t want to be friends with Trixiethen. She couldn’t micro manage Trixie and she didn’t want to waste time mending fences since there was still issues between them.
 
“Also, no matter if you have a standoffish personality or not, if you don’t want people to think the worst of you, you need to show some sincerity.”
 
That’s why Trixie’s ‘I appreciate it’ line was partially sincere. It was in Twilight’s court whether treat Trixie as a friend, or to treat Trixie as an asshole. And you know what was the result then.
 
>>1143253
 
Don’t forget, Trixie isn’t just any stand-offish person to Twilight. Twilight HATES Trixie, and she has NO idea why. When training with Zecora she couldn’t even train properly cause Trixie’s words were stuck in her head, and she could barely forgive Trixie in Magic Dual even though she was under magical influence.
 
“Diamond Tiara is standoffish, but she still showed humility in regards to the CMC. Trixie has not, she appears exactly the same. A bad attitude, bad habits, and having little sincerity towards Twilight.”
 
Diamond Tiara showed that attitude for years and they were still eager to help her the second they saw some humility. Twilight Sparkle knows Trixie has shown humility, knows they both still have issues with each other, and Twilight met Trixie’s tepid insincerity and anger with even more insincerity and anger. Twilight doesn’t even have a normally standoffish personality, but when Trixie gave Twilight the opportunity to be the better mare, she met hostility with hostility.
 
I think Princess Twilight Sparkle has gotten enough endearing to last 100 lifetimes, I don’t think Twilight needs it from one of the few ponies who will call Twilight out on her holier-then-thou attitude. Trixie needs to be the fire to her oil, otherwise Twilight is never going to see her own faults.

@CronoM  
You missed the point, it is not that Trixie is smug, it is that Trixie is not acting any differently. It makes her feel insincere and she was clearly antagonizing Twilight. Trying to pretend otherwise is just taking Trixie’s side over looking at it unbiased.
 
Also, no matter if you have a standoffish personality or not, if you don’t want people to think the worst of you, you need to show some sincerity. Diamond Tiara is standoffish, but she still showed humility in regards to the CMC. Trixie has not, she appears exactly the same. A bad attitude, bad habits, and having little sincerity towards Twilight. Along with them having a rivalry, she did not try to endear to Twilight; she did not try to show Twilight that she is a better pony. And, yes, she should prove herself to Twilight.

@CronoM
 
One needs look no further than Starlight herself to see that. She becomes Twilight 2.0 because of how strict Twilight is. She’s become just as neurotic as Twilight is, because she doesn’t want to let down Twilight (or perhaps because Twilight is overbearing? YMMV).
 
But Starlight is not Twilight. She flat out told Twilight she was wrong and argued with her, something Twilight would never do to Celestia. We see the best growth out of Stralight when Twilight isn’t around, and I think that is rather telling.
 
-Lumino

@Background Pony #FC2F  
A judgemental assumption Twilight should only have made after giving Trixie a chance and talking it out.
 
Newsflash, Trixie has a standoffish personality. :/
 
‘oh it wasn’t just her smug default behavior, it was her smug default behavior”…Seriously? No matter how you spin it, its still the same song, different verse. Rainbow Dash can act like a braggart, but she’s an incredibly well meaning and heroic character. Trixie is a standoffish person who has a bad history with Twilight, but that doesn’t mean that she’s a bad person. Heck, she was never that bad to begin with uninfluenced. Instead, Twilight treated Trixie’s standoffish personality with her own.
 
In fact, the ‘I appreciate it’ line wasn’t even that standoffish by Trixie standards. Besides the brief ‘princess’ line, Trixie’s attitude was tepid compared to Twilight’s at first.

@LuminoZero  
Exactly.
 
She’s hurting Starlight and she’s hurting her own relationships by treating Starlight like a project. Amending Fences was supposed to be a healthy dose of reality that calls out on some of the twisted perspectives Twilight has developed, and I hope future episodes build upon it because this was seriously one of the breaking points.
 
Her moral priorities are so twisted something needs to happen to help her.

@CronoM  
It’s not being smug in itself that is the problem, but Trixie’s behavior appearing - at least when she’s talking to Twilight - to be the exact same attitude that caused her to bring a soul sucking, super powerful, corrupting amulet and enslave Ponyville. It appears in her eyes as if Trixie has not grown or learned from her mistakes.
 
The closest indication is the name of her show that night, and Trixie making a spectacle of it does not sell the sincerety of it (apologetic gimmicks is not an unusual thing even in the real world - apologizing only for PR purposes).

@Background Pony #092E  
Trixie was the problem as well. Think about what you just said, Trixie was trying to guilt Starlight and she suceeded because of Twilight’s issues, but that doesn’t stop the fact that Trixie was trying to manipulate Starlight so she can one up Twilight.
 
Oh, and Twilight just became a teacher in a complicated field, she’s going to make mistakes. She acknowledges this mistake. Twilight is still a pony - a teacher does not magically turn them into perfect, omniscent gods who can do no wrong.
 
But, even ignoring that, Trixie did not at any point try to appear or seem to want to be viewed by Twilight as sorry for her actions. She’s has a very smug attitude like she had from the very beginning making it seem as if she has not learned or grown from the last experience. She purposefully antagonized Twilight during their meeting.
 
Twilight was not just trying to show off to Celestia. There is a clear reason to distrust Trixie. Add that to the fact that Starlight was falling into some bad behavior - not listening, overusing her magic for solutions, joking about her misdeeds - and Twilight has a clear reason to be fearful that Starlight might be pressured into doing bad things again.
 
I doubt she’s forgotten the Discord and Tirek thing either - all it took was some manipulative words from a less trustworthy source to get him to fall back in his old ways. Trixie is not evil, but she is not the best person either.

@Background Pony #092E
 
A bit harsher than I would of liked, but this is what it really comes down to. Someone said it better, Twilight is treating Starlight like her project and not like her friend.
 
It’s incredibly self destructive, and I honestly hope that she gets called out on it at some point.
 
-Lumino

@Background Pony #5377  
But the point is that it’s not up to Twilight to decide who is friends with who. She’s supposed to be the teacher here, the Princess of Friendship. She, of ALL PONIES, should have been willing to give Trixie a pass, even if Trixie is still a smug snake because she’s jealous.
 
Twilight was so busy trying to show Princess Celestia what a great teacher she is that she forgot the entire point of what she was doing! And in the process, she ALIENATED her only pupil and drove Trixie to decide if the only friend she ever had hated her, life wasn’t worth living anymore.
 
TWILIGHT was the problem here. Trixie guilted Starlight, and Starlight should’ve told Twilight what she was doing, but if Twilight hadn’t been such a selfish asshole in the first place maybe she would’ve told her instead of ditching her out of spite.

Twilight really goofed up here.

Thats it guys, Trixie is now relatable to me.
 
Life has No Second Chances, okay.

@CronoM  
It was a lot more than “being smug.” Twilight had no reason to think Trixie would be a good influence on Starlight, and Trixie was not doing herself any favors doing nothing but antagonizing Twilight during that whole meeting in the castle.
 
Heck, Twilight never even says that she thinks Trixie hasn’t reformed or that she is a bad pony, she just questions and doubts whether she and Starlight would be good for each other or just magnify their own faults (that she thinks Trixie may still not be “very nice” is the not the same as thinking she is bad). Given Trixie did end up coercing Starlight into skipping the dinner without telling anyone, one can’t say Twilight’s doubts had no basis.

@Starswirl  
I’m afraid so. I sincerely can’t understand your reasoning at all. :( I sympathize with Twilight only to the extent that Celestia has fostered this brown-nosing and high pressure mentality that shuns empathy for far too long, and nobody but Sunset Shimmer has told her to ease up from the burden and expectations.
 
If one could make a nature vs nurture argument, unlike the other Mane 6, Twilight’s human counterpart does not have an nigh-identical personality to her equestrian one. Human Twilight is far more interested in self discovery then pleasing the expectations of others, and Celestia has no part of her life until recently.
 
@Background Pony #FC2F  
Its the ‘her being smug’=’irredeemably bad influence’ part that I don’t get. If Starlight has been able to bond with an anti-social person, that’s only a plus for Twilight if she can mend fences with her as well. That’s kind of the achievement Celestia values the most. The only downside is the potential for a slightly bad impression Trixie makes on Celestia, but that should be way down the list of priorities considering the alternative is making enemies. For most people at least.

There’s too much bias being thrown around here when it’s both of their faults.
 
Twilight was overbearing and mistrustful of anything she can’t micromanage herself. It’s why she’s hostile towards Discord still, it’s why she was hesitant around Sunset for a second in Rainbow Rocks, and it’s why she’s extremely distrustful of a Trixie who acts the exact same smug as usual.
 
Trixie is to blame because it’s clear that the moment she was presented for Twilight, she wanted to one up her and she was very desperate to do so. She made it quite obvious. A part - more conscious part - was using Starlight. I would say the only times she really wanted Starlight’s friendship was their initial meeting, when Starlight offered to be her assistant, and when she lost that friendship. And, she was quite clearly trying to get under Twilight’s skin - she sees Twilight as a rival and even if she doesn’t want to hurt anybody, it doesn’t mean she isn’t petty enough to try and get under Twilight’s skin (similar to Starlight actually in the season finale but not as extreme).
 
Ultimately, issues like this are complicated. Starlight’s new friend and her teacher have a history with each other. A rivalry and while they don’t want to hurt anyone, Trixie is petty and Twilight is completely suspicious. Remember, the amulet made Trixie act mad with power but a petty, smug, boastful attitude came long before then.

@CronoM  
And I’m trying to see how one can have such sympathy for Trixie but not Twilight. That’s what I can’t.
 
And this is probably the thing we’ll have to agree to disagree on.

@Starswirl  
Trixie’s resentment toward Twilight is understandable to anyone but Twilight. She does not relate to people at all, Moondancer was literally the first time for her. While Trixie was trying to salvage her career as a performer, Twilight suddenly became a princess with no real public reason given. Mild gloating is not an instigation especially knowing Trixie’s personality. On that alone Twilight should expect some hostility.
 
Any other decent person who knew Trixie’s circumstances would just accept the mild hostility and try to make things better instead of making things worse. Even if Starlight did listen to Twilight immediately, Twilight would still be making an enemy out of Trixie.
 
Unlike Gilda and RD’s breakup, things left on apologetic terms from Trixie in Magic Dual. Twilight was more concerned about making a good impression with Celestia then trying to mend things with an aggressive but reformed person. I’m trying to find some sympathy for Twilight but I just can’t.
 
@ChuymaruZ  
Not really, the only big difference is were finally seeing some ‘getting sick of your shit’ faces from Celestia and Luna given to Twilight when she’s shameless brown nosing.

twilight is really weird in this season

@CronoM  
That Twilight is the instigator is debatable. Rewatch the episode; right at the moment Starlight reveals her new friend is Trixie, she (Trixie) is being very hostile towards Twilight. Her being as loudmouthed as before Magic Duel and getting in Twilight’s face is what triggered Twilight’s suspicion. It’s telling that she wore her cape and hat just for that particular meeting and took it off later.
 
But like with Lokizade, we might just see the episode in a different light.

@Starswirl  
That seems like an extremely biased analysis. Not only did Trixie apologize at the end of Magic Dual, she apologized outloud at 19:10 and 20:47 in the show. I’m not going to judge a character who outwordly spoke their regret and apologies just because they didn’t use the ‘word’ sorry to Starlight before Twilight jumped into the tent.
 
Sounds pretty petty if you ask me. And considering that Twilight was the instigator of the episode, Starlight was the only one Trixie needed to apologize to. It wasn’t Twilight’s place to dig up old wounds and treat the current Trixie like she was only capable of being a bad influence.

@Lokizade  
No problem. The reason of my stance is I missed the part where Twilight showed any concern for Starlight’s feelings or Trixie entirely besides trying to undo her mess she made out of lack of empathy. Afterall, if she lost her pupil, that would look even worse. I’m not saying that’s twilight’s heartless, but other’s feelings are almost always secondary to her.
 
Since we see very different things, I agree, lets agree to disagree.
 
@YuwenTaiji  
If Twilight was cautious AND cared about the current Trixie, wouldn’t she try to mend fences instead of assuming she was evil after she swore to turn over a new leaf after the evil amplifying amulet and an incident that was more Snips and Snail’s fault then herself. When it came to actions not under any influence, her crimes Twilight knew about ranged way lower then Sunset and many others, yet Twilight didn’t have the time to consider them so she didn’t.

@Fwelin  

 
I do think it’s evident that Trixie’s initial claim was exaggeration in an attempt to gloat. The fact is we saw them become friends before Trixie knew Starlight had anything to do with Twilight. I’m more inclined to believe her follow-up that one-upping Twilight was a bonus is closer to the truth since that fits the actual scenes we saw.

Trixie is almost an ex-convict, who single-handedly overthrown Ponyville, forgiven, yet never forgotten, why wouldn’t Twilight takes extra caution when only pupil goes anywhere near her?

@CronoM  
There was an element of making Celestia happy of course, but I completely disagree that she doesn’t care for the feelings of the others, she could have just gone back to Celestia and apologized saying Starlight wouldn’t be coming if that’s all that was important to her, but she stayed, she comforted BOTH of them (even Trixie), and owned up to her mistakes and obviously didn’t feel good about any of it, and after that, she didn’t rush Starlight back to get back in time for the dinner, it was an afterthought.
 
I get what you’re trying to say, but there was more to it than that, I really don’t care to keep arguing this back and forth though, so I’ll just agree to disagree again with you here.

@CronoM  
it wasn’t just about Celestia. It was even more about how she feared Trixie could be a bad influence on Starlight. Which she had every reason to considering how hostile Trixie’s behaviour was right from the start.
 
As for owning up: One of these three said “I’m sorry”, and it wasn’t Trixie or Starlight. It was Twilight, to Trixie. Didn’t hear an apology coming back for Trixie’s behaviour in return.