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Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 42

Background Pony #56B7
@Anon-a-Miss
I will say that the person you replied to has NOT attempted suicide and is just saying that to be “cool.” If they actually had, they would’ve had that immediate moment of immense guilt right after they had done it. Yes Trixie attempted suicide and yes she had a valid reason to do so. People will invalidate and water down the message (because mental health is still taboo and stigmatised so people don’t want it to be in a kids show) do “it was just part of her show” BUT it’s clear that no one in the audience knew she was going to do that act, so if she knew she wouldn’t survive and didn’t want to die, she wouldn’t have done it. Doing something that you know will kill you IS suicide

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 41

Background Pony #A3A4
@Lucky Shot
 
 
How did you come to the conclusion that Trixie decided to do the trick before? Starlight mentioned how Trixie was the best who promptly told her she would never be able to preform it when Starlight offered to help. No where in there did they say she was planning on doing the trick before hand.
 
The difference between Trixies (Almost) failed attempt to escape and Houdini’s failure to escape from the life threatening situation. Houdini has reason to believe he can survive the tricks he does while Trixie didn’t. No one seems to point this out but…There was a long pause between when the manticore swallowed Trixie and when she was saved…He didn’t look concerned in the slightest about the trick failing either. Fluttershy wasn’t scared for herself she was scared for Trixie…Fluttershy is kind not stupid she knows wild animals are dangerous to most ponies and throwing yourself into ones mouth is as well. Finally, as I said before Trixie had no intention of preforming the trick in the first place so there would really be no reason for her to play up it’s danger. It is also shown on many an occasion that Trixie is not good at real magic like most unicorns can preform which makes sense, After all according to Twilight unicorns usually only have magic relevant to their cutiemarks. The only way we can think Trixie would be able to escape death is if we assume the manticore is trained to spit her out which is faulty logic since even trained animals sometimes kill people. Which is why we cannot say the trick isn’t dangerous.
 
If you like I could use some quotes from the series to back up my logic here :)

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 40

Background Pony #A3A4
Twilight and Starlight really annoyed me there like “Oh look she’s trying to kill herself…Lets just have a normal conversation!” and Twilight especially “Ya it’s your choice I mean she could die but totally your choice!”

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 39

Background Pony #38B5
I can totally believe Trixie was killing herself, for all the reasons mentioned before. As for why neither Starlight nor Twilight did anything earlier? That would bring attention to the fact that she couldn’t actually do it. And that would just humiliate Trixie further.

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 38

Background Pony #7DC6
In spite of what Jim Miller said, there really isn’t any other way to interpret that scene. The manticore would have eaten her if the stunt failed. Maybe Trixie thought she could do the spell herself but that seems unlikely as she never figured out how Hoofdini did it. She may have been lying, but that seems unlikely.

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 37

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 36

Background Pony #F512
Ok, I haven’t seen anyone who has been there post( or somepony has and just haven’t mentioned it) so I will. (Please forgive any format errors, I’m posting this from my phone.) I have been suicidal before. Several times. I have been hospitalized for suicide attempts twice. And as someone who knows that mindset, I can tell you that I absolutely think it’s possible that Trixie tried to kill herself. I was watching the ep with my bf’s 6 year old niece, and I almost changed the channel when I figured out where this was going. Others here have made all the relevant points about the Manticore, Trixie’s wording, etc, so I won’t go repeating them. But I can tell you that Trixie’s regret, pain, and self-depricating comments onstage hit a nerve with me, as I have talked myself down like that as well when that depressed. Add in how ostracized she’s been since her first appearance (as well as the fact that EVERYTHING we’ve seen in the show has apparently taken place in the relatively short timespan of just over a year, and you’ll likely have a depressed and regretful pony that feels like she just destroyed her first real friendship. Do I think she absolutely attempted suicide? Yeah, I really do. I understand why people would like to argue that she didn’t. But as someone who has been in that darkness, as someone who has felt that depressed and alone, I personally think that she did. Maybe as a way to show people like me that they aren’t alone in their feelings and that there is always at least one person that wants to be their friend and be there for them. But that’s just what I think.

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 35

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 34

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 33

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 32

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 31

Background Pony #4462
My thoughts? The show must go on, because Trixie is a professional. If she dies it’s just job hazard.  
Also the writers suck, because it wasn’t clear enough once again.

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 30

QueenCold
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Trixie did not show any of the signs that she wanted to end her life. She had a show to put on and was really just putting her money where her mouth was. Reckless? Yes. Suicidal? No.

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 29

Background Pony #092B
@Background Pony #00F7
 
I never thought I would see the suicide gag revived since the loony toons.
 
I think that the sudden destruction of what she considered her first actual friendship was destroying her from the inside. She was blinded by ego but her first true freinds tears made her realise what she had done.
 
Just like Judas when he betrayed Jesus for greed instead of ego…  
Same result.
 
MLP: Laying it down. Biblically.

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 28

Background Pony #832E
Honestly doing something you know will kill you is suicide though…The Manticore was chained up so it couldn’t rampage if it wanted too and I believe Fluttershy was not scared for her own safety or acting bUT scared for Trixie. Trixie stated “If I tried that trick I’d be chewed up and swallowed” and “If you make on mistake I’ll be a goner” meaning she doesn’t have a plan to survive without Starlight… (But then again everyone has their own opinions)

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 27

Background Pony #832E
@Lucky Shot  
Well I will say…not to be rude that they have a point..Then again it is your opinion and honestly your right tI be offended by people calling you stupid for it…

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 26

Background Pony #3CA7
@Anon-a-Miss  
I think it might have also been the realization that, even if she wanted to die, getting eaten is a painful way to go.

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 25

Anon-a-Miss
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I’m not really ready to make a big wall of text right now, but I would agree that trixie was intent on suicide if it wasn’t for the very last second where she panicked. Last I checked if you already know you’re heading towards your willingly chosen path of death you do not panic about it. (Correct me if i’m wrong, but this was my own experience with my first suicide attempt.)
 
There’s the story of a guy who jumped off a bridge and survived. He later said: “On my way down, I realized that every problem in my life could be fixed, except for the fact that I had just jumped off a bridge.”
 
I don’t know if this is a true story but it’s believable that someone tries to kill himself and realizes in the middle of it that he actually doesn’t want to die.
 
Of course, Jim Miller said it wasn’t supposed to be suicide and I’ve no reason to doubt his word. Not to mention that Twilight and Starlight would’ve stopped her immediately instead of just having an idle chat about Trixie’s true intentions. Not matter how much Twilight dislikes her, she wouldn’t let Trixie kill herself. So even if I can’t come up with a good explanation for Trixie’s behavior it’s was most likely not a suicide attempt.

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 24

Background Pony #C1C0
I’m not really ready to make a big wall of text right now, but I would agree that trixie was intent on suicide if it wasn’t for the very last second where she panicked. Last I checked if you already know you’re heading towards your willingly chosen path of death you do not panic about it. (Correct me if i’m wrong, but this was my own experience with my first suicide attempt.)

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 23

Background Pony #2AF2
@Lucky Shot  
Ok, I have to say, your quite frankly being a jerk.If YOU didn’t act defensive after the BP posted his\her comment, none of this would have happend.
 
@Background Pony #F105  
I completly agree with you here.Not only with your issue with the person above, but also about Trixie.

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 22

Background Pony #3CA7
I appreciate someone taking the time to act like an adult and not a small child.
Indeed, this thread was very much missing a person like that.
Blah blah I’m superior to veryone blah blah…
I’m not even going to dignify most of this with a response as it is irrelevant to the topic and mostly just baseless attacks and undeserved ego boosting.
BGPs are gonna need to pick a different means of getting under my skin. Fighting me on my own turf by trying to out-condescend me? That’s a fight they’re simply not equipped to win.
True enough, you have proven that you are the master of baseless and irrelevant condescension.
Your main point
Trixie doesn’t state it’s a trick she “couldn’t do”; she says it’s a trick she has never been able to do, i.e. she has tried it multiple times before. Ergo, it’s not a lethal trick when failed, since she’s still here after failing it an unknown number of times (at least twice.)
That is not the only way those words can be interpreted, the fact that she says later that she would be a goner if Starlight did her part wrong proves that she has never done it.
As I’ve already said, Fluttershy acts scared of the manticore, a creature she was not afraid of half a decade ago when a wild one actually attacked her for real.
That was a wild manticore, this one looks clearly different and is identified as a pony eating manticore, it’s entirely possible it is either a more dangerous subspecies or was trained to eat ponies.
The manticore in this episode not only patiently waits in his precise place on stage rather than rampage through the audience,
It was chained up dum-dum, it coulden’t do that even if it wanted to.
Even the little girls the show is aimed towards would know better than to think the manticore was actually dangerous, since a cornerstone of the joke relies on him obviously not being it and all – but most bronies have consistently illustrated that they don’t have the sense and reason of a little girl.
Blah blah superiority complex…
As for Trixie’s self-destructive behavior, I can’t argue with that – she’s done little more than chew her own foot off for all three of her episodes. I simply don’t consider her to be suicidal so much as table-flipping, a habit I have rather some personal experience with.
If you perform an action that will kill you if not interrupted, you are suicidal, and once again they imply multiple times during the episode with words like “goner” that it was lethal.
By the time the show started, Trixie would have already advertised that she was going to perform the whatever the heck manticore dive. Attempting the trick solo was her only option since canceling would remove any chance of salvaging her career.
 
So? Her reputation was already comepletely destroyed, it’s not like saying there was a change of plans would do much more, especially when she no longer has a way to survive the act.
 
But oh well, denial isn’t just a river in Egypt and I doubt you will respond to anyone else here who also made good points, you seem to have little interest in having an intellectual debate on the meaning of the episode and seem to post on here mostly to just insult others and inflate your own sense of ego, if you want to point out flaws in may argument that’s fine, heck I don’t even care if you insult me since it gives me something to laugh at, but attacking others and accusing me of sockpuppeting or collusion just to try and act like you have more importance than you really do is truly sad.

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 21

Frostwolf123
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Not to be a downer, but none of these points make any sense, and there really isn’t a soft way to say it.
 
  • This isn’t a point. The episode contained what it contained. Insisting that you know better than the creators, AND insisting that your expectations come before what we actually saw is friggin ridiculous. And on top of all that, the idea that “they’d never go there” isn’t even true. Remember when Nickelodeon aired a murder suicide? The idea that a “kids show” can’t cover certain material is both highly regressive to the medium, and blatantly false.
     
  • This one is pretty flat out wrong. She never said she was planning to preform the trick. In fact, she was frustrated that she couldn’t. She clearly only decided to do it after Starlight proposed a solution, and I don’t even know how you came to this conclusion.
     
  • I really have no idea what point you’re trying to derive from this one. Aside from maybe the idea that thrill seeking isn’t a death wish. Which is true, but irrelevant. There’s a mighty huge difference between a chance of death, and a certainty of death. Beginning an act you don’t at all think you can survive is pretty much the definition of suicide. Even if you want to assume she was playing up the danger for the show, her little monologue before firing herself wasn’t heard by anyone, and there’s no reason to believe it was false. She legitimately though she would die without Starlight’s help.
     
  • And finally this last one is all completely baseless. All of it. You’re insisting that she had some previously unexplained way out, or that it was actually safe, without the slightest amount of evidence to support it. You think Fluttershy was “in on it”? We’ve seen her “acting”, and it’s not convincing. And the idea that the manticore was safe, especially by drawing on Fluttershy’s handling of them, is also pretty baseless. Just because a snake charmer knows how to handle a snake doesn’t mean it’s not a dangerous and venomous animal. If anything, Fluttershy’s reaction only confirms the danger.
     
    But more importantly, the whole argument is basically relying on the idea that being a kids show means there’s no danger. You’ve concluded that there must be some unstated or off screen safety feature they just aren’t showing us because your personal expectations of the shows rating forbid actual death. And I can’t even begin to express how backwards and ridiculous that is. You’re basically saying that your expectations of the show actually define it’s content. And I’m sorry but no, they don’t.
     
    If you think they’d never go there, well I’m sorry, but they did.

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 20

Crimson Prose
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@Lucky Shot  
Actually no, she wasn’t planning on doing the trick at first. Remember, she initially told Starlight she could never do it, then when Starlight offered to help, Trixie said that Starlight had made her show even better. In other words, she decided to do it when Starlight offered help.  
Secondly, why else would she do it FIRST. Surely that was meant to be the finale, so doing it first as if it’s the only thing she expected to do itself was telling.

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 19

Background Pony #171A
Trixie doesn’t state it’s a trick she “couldn’t do”; she says it’s a trick she has never been able to do, i.e. she has tried it multiple times before. Ergo, it’s not a lethal trick when failed, since she’s still here after failing it an unknown number of times (at least twice.)
I can see where you’re coming from, but I’m not sure that’s actually what she’s saying. When you look at the dialogue where she introduces the trick, there’s a statement she makes that reveals two very important details.  
“I don’t know how he did it! If I tried it, I’d get chewed up and swallowed by that manticore.”
So the first important point is fairly clear. She doesn’t know how the original trick was done. And while that doesn’t rule out her having attempted to figure it out at some point, she obviously still does not know what the secret behind it is. In fact, given that she also revealed only one magician ever pulled it off…  
“Only one magician has ever pulled it off – my hero, Hoofdini!”
…it’s not likely to be something she could just read up on and learn about either.
 
The second point is that she talks about what would happen IF she tried it. Using “if” seems to indicate quite clearly that she actually has not attempted the trick before. And for good reason, since the very next thing she says is that she’d be eaten by the manticore if she did.
 
So as much as I would like to think that Trixie had some plan in mind for what would happen if the trick failed, nothing she says in the episode gives us reason to think that. I still don’t think she wanted to die doing the trick, but I can’t help but think she knew how much trouble she’d be in without help. That kind of leaves us either to believe she’s one of the strongest adherents to “the show must go on” mentality ever, or that she is deliberately setting herself up to fail because of the aforementioned self destructive behavioral tendencies.  
“Come one, come all. Come and see the Pathetic and Friendless Trixie’s ‘Way-To-Go-Dum-Dum-You-Really-Messed-It-Up-This-Time Repentance Tour’.”
Given the way she is acting at the beginning of the show, I know which one seems the most likely to me.
 
 
@Lucky Shot  
As I’ve already said, Fluttershy acts scared of the manticore, a creature she was not afraid of half a decade ago when a wild one actually attacked her for real. The manticore in this episode not only patiently waits in his precise place on stage rather than rampage through the audience, but takes a bow after the show. Even the little girls the show is aimed towards would know better than to think the manticore was actually dangerous, since a cornerstone of the joke relies on him obviously not being it and all – but most bronies have consistently illustrated that they don’t have the sense and reason of a little girl.
Well your comment on “most bronies” aside, I actually thought Fluttershy was afraid of what the trick entailed, not the manticore itself. After all, stopping one with a thorn in it’s paw is one thing. Deliberately firing yourself at it in such a way that a single mistake ends with you being eaten is another thing entirely. Plus, even if it is well trained, it’s still dangerous enough to have a leash on it to keep it from the crowd (and likely in the correct spot as well). Moreover, as I’m sure another stage magician (like, say, Roy Horn of Siegfried & Roy, who was injured by a tiger during a show) could tell you, no matter how much you train and work with wild animals, there is still a chance they will attack or injure you at some point.
 
I’d also like to know where she got the manticore from. I suppose it’s possible she got it from Fluttershy (which might also explain why she was nervous, since Fluttershy was shown back in the last Trixie episode, “Magic Duel”, to worry when her animal friends are used in any sort of magic demonstration), but it’s more than likely not one she brought with her (because as we already covered, this is not a trick she’s attempted before). So she’s very possibly working with an animal unfamiliar with her under the bare minimum of training. With all that, I don’t think we can consider the manticore a negligible threat.

Pony Discussion » Trixie & Suicide » Post 18

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@Lucky Shot  
My point isn’t that that BP didn’t make some slights against you, but more that, for someone disappointed at another’s use of personal attacks, you sure did fill your response with a big bundle of personal attacks.

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