Season 9 Discussion Thread [Warning: SPOILERS!!!!!]

@gingerninja666  

 
I’d somewhat disagree with this. If they showed any sign of backstabbing each other in the finale I’d be willing to believe they weren’t capable of friendship. Instead they seemed perfectly okay with saving each other. If anything it showed they were only capable of becoming friends with each other and they’d have nothing stopping them from hating everything else.
 

 
 
@EotD
 
Having Sombra being Grogar would be completely nonsensical. It’s already moronic how he survived a Crystal Heart blast and the EOH one time. Having him survive a second time while weakened would elevate his strength to extremes. His character is already nonsensical as is.

@Background Pony #A264  
Yeah, the way in which they handled the villains was too non-committal. Like, are they friends or not? Because if hey are, that should be why they nearly win, and if not, that should be why they lose.

@EotD
 
I think using Discord is more economic. If that makes any sense.
 
It allows you to focus on the Trio, who were the villains that the story really cares about, while also folding in Grogar’s role with a character who was always going to have screen time in the finale anyway. There’s little explanation needed with it being Discord. How did he pull it off? He’s Discord and he’s hideously strong. Why did he do it? The same reason he’s been doing stuff all season. It just… seems like it flows a bit better than having Sombra show up for a few minutes before exiting again.

I feel like the more obvious path of Grogar being real, the terrible trio being genuine friends and ultimately helping to bring Grogar down would have been more satisfying.

@Applelight Limited  
I would have loved that.
 
I expected that.

Psst guess what

@PonyPon  
Now imagine them helping to contribute to the rainbow beam. Way more satisfying.

@Background Pony #A264
 
Tirek tried to shoot Cozy Glow while calling her a pest while arguing over the bell, and Chrysalis was putting emphasis on the “me” part regarding her plans with the Windigos… which would’ve inevitably cause mass deaths.
 
They only cared about each other for pragmatic reasons.
 

 
@gingerninja666
 
With Sombra, I think it’s worth noting there was pretty much no scenario he was winning in S3. The scenario was a test for Twilight. Celestia and Luna were quite possibly watching, and even if they weren’t, they could give him a very big challenge after he took back the Heart.
 
They one-shotted him last time, and he probably wouldn’t do much better the second time.
 
Discord, Chrysalis, Nightmare Moon, and Tirek were always bigger threats.

@Applelight Limited  
A lot of people didn’t care about Grogar though and were very concerned with the idea of those three reforming. Not sure if it would have been quite as outraging as the actual result, but probably only because it would have been met with a giant sigh instead.

@AC97
 
If that was the case then when Cozy was surrounded then Tirek and Chrysalis shouldn’t have bothered saving her. If they were pragmatic then them getting rid of Cozy then and there would’ve been the perfect opportunity to show they were incapable of friendship. Instead for some nonsensical reason they have them saving Cozy looking like they have character development.

@Background Pony #A264  
To be fair, they wouldn’t know if she was winning or not until they enter the room. And also, she had the bell.

@Latecomer
 
And Cozy Glow was actually flying away from being surrounded right before they broke in.
 
I’m not sure they actually had much insight for how they had her on the ropes.
 
And besides, it doesn’t actually matter much even if they did care about each other, since they’d y’know, still be thoroughly evil with no signs of slowing.

@AC97  
As I said, it has thematic relevance, and the show waffled all that away.

@Latecomer
 
Then let her get incapacitated then retrieve the bell. Nothing should’ve compelled them to save her if they never were friends pragmatic or not.

Let’s put it this way: It was bad, but it definitely could’ve been worse.
 
Grogar could’ve been real, just amazingly incompetent, with Discord being worfed alongside Celestia and Luna.
 
He could’ve been real, a true summoner/minion-type villain, only for it to end with all three being redeemed, wasting so much time as to make the episode a hurried mess on top.
 
This was the streamlined option, to immediately start off the conflict by cutting off one loose end right away. The pacing was definitely on point, the writing… a bit less, but still better than what we could’ve got.
 
The whole really, really could’ve used more preparation, though. A plot shouldn’t come out so far off the left field that absolutely nobody can see it coming.
 
Discord’s mastery over chaos magic being so complete that he’s able to copy other kinds flawlessly, allowing him to do whatever it took to bring back Sombra and use black/yellow “Dark” magic to do exactly what he wants? Bullshit
 
Grogar’s bell being a power conduit just happening to contain raw adaptive magic which morphs to the one it’s given to and conveniently supercharges them just the right way? Are you kidding me?
 
There’s the alicorn amulet, there’s changeling artifacts around, there’s the very concept of foreshadowing. Yeah, I’m salty that all my predictions fell apart because I didn’t expect them going for the obvious asspull, cause I thought they knew better.

@Poison Trail  
Yeah, that’s probably what a lot of us are feeling about the finale - not perfect, but a lot better than it could have been. Ironic that FIM would come full circle back to success by transcending low expectations.
 
(Even if they were going for redeeming them, it would probably be neater with Grogar out of the way.)

@Poison Trail  
@Latecomer  
I’ll be honest, the twist I have for my fanfic will probably be better because I’ll be foreshadowing it.

@Poison Trail  
Would it be warf Discord to begin controlling him rather than beating him?

@Poison Trail  
I would have hated more reforming Chrysalis and Tirek (I could accept Cozy) than Grogar twist. But of course That was a bad idea.

@Poison Trail  
Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooor, we could’ve still had Discord disguised as Grogar…but then have the real Grogar pop out of the bell (He’d be banished by Gusty into the bell cause, as it turns out, he was too powerful to take on with conventional methods). Disgusted by Discord’s attempt to copy him, he unmakes him into a pack of animals that made up his body. There, not only does Grogar now look competent again but Discord being in disguise solves the “being a dumbass and not bothering to look around his house for the bell” plot hole.

@Background Pony #3629  
That? That’s genius.

edit
 
{ I’ve decided maybe I should also spoiler stuff on this finale thread just in case for people who stumble across it, eheh… }
 
 
I think the action-packed dramatic 2-parter finale’s only two huge flaws were making Discord stupid AND cruel, and also expecting the audience to not give a shit about why the hell a grade school child is as evil and vicious as two veteran villains. Discord’s season-long manipulation I can at least understand, with some disgust. As a g1 fan, it was slightly annoying for the whole Grogar thing to be a trick, but at least it’s heavily implied there is (or at least was) a real Grogar in g4. Everything else was awesome, especially every moment with the villainous trio.
 
The very last episode, though, the ‘slice-of-life’ finale of finales, is one of the very best episodes of the whole show. I found the whole ‘20 years later theme’ and the focus of the mane six’s fears of separation were fantastic, and I honestly loved the design of older Spike and Twilight. Not to mention that beautiful nostalgia-filled song. Best part of the flashback was how it was such a callback to the very first finale of the show in many ways too, The Best Night Ever, especially with the whole ‘wow that really sucked lol’ aspect, though the whole plot was much more condensed this time. Only other season to have a single episode finale, too.

@Background Pony #3629  
That’s really good.  
Contain him inside he’s bell instead of defeating him.

@Background Pony #1CB0  
I really don’t think so. (For one thing, if she was a chaotic creation she could probably have handled his power form the bell.)
 

 
 
@Amethyst_Crystal  
I agree regarding Discord, but I really don’t think Cozy needed any more explanation that the other two.(Or perhaps rather, I don’t trust this show to give a good one.) And I was glad that Grogar wasn’t suddenly important.
 
As for the epilogue, the only part that bugs me is the artificiality of the separation (and how it contradicted the hints all season that they’d rule together). I mean, you can’t just decide now that Ponyville and Canterlot aren’t close neighbours, especially for an alicorn.