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Season 9 Discussion Thread [NO SPOILERS, DF airings only]

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You know how they say "history is written by the winners"? This is history being written by pretty much anyone who can afford a publisher.

So I guess this is an unofficial Fluttershy episode.

I mean I guess this was meant to be a Daring Do episode, but considering how hard Fluttershy with 2 T’s carried throughout pretty much everything? wow

I mean, at least Rainbow Dash got better in this episode.

…In that she really did nothing overall. But hey, no net change is better than actively harming the plot…I guess.

I was like, joking that they’d redeem Caballeron. I’m pretty sure this is how most fanfics have Fluttershy redeem antagonists/villains. They just spend the day with her, and because she’s incorruptible, they have no choice but to be good.

I’m not saying it’s bad, I think it’s hilarious when executed right. But also at the same time, really? Caballeron AND Ahuizotl? At the same time?

This is like, a really weird way to end the Daring Do saga.

I get what they were trying to do. Give Daring Do, Caballeron, and Ahuizotl more depth. That they aren’t as infallible or pure evil as the books would have you believe.

Some of it works, and some of it doesn’t.

I mean, they did end it in a way.

I assume that the mesoequestrian treasures won’t be captured, at least by Daring Do/Caballeron. Though it does lead to the question of if other people will try to steal it, and if they’ll work together to protect the rest of the treasure. It’s not completely over, but the story arc is finished.

A lot of the problems with the writing just stem fromt he fact that Daring Do is in fact real. Which could lead its way to other storylines, but it is a hindrance to the ones they choose to do. I respect what they try to do to write around that roadblock, but it’s still a roadblock.

It’s weirdly enjoyable but with extra emphasis on the weird.

Seriously, just cause two of them promised to stop stealing doesn’t mean it’s gone entirely.

Do your job, Vegeta.

1. Between Dark and Dawn
2. The Last Laugh
3. She Talks to Angel
4. Sparkle’s Seven
5. Student Counsel
6. The Beginning of the End
7. Frenemies
8. A Horse Shoe-In
9. Sweet and Smoky
10. The Last Crusade
11. Daring Doubt
12. The Summer Sun Setback
13. Common Ground
14. She’s All Yak
15. Dragon Dropped
16. Going to Seed
17. Uprooted
18. A Trivial Pursuit
19. The Point of No Return
20. 2, 4, 6, Greaaat

Next time I assume we’re redeeming the Flim Flam Bros.

What is next week, anyway? Ah, it’s the episode where the Crusaders get adult bodies and

oh no
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I think another thing to keep in mind about the Daring Do episodes is that they’re just parodies of the Adventurer Archeologist tropes. All the characters are just stock, one-dimensional characters playing their pre-defined roles.

This episode gives them some actual depth.
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@DerpyFast
I think that’s the biggest problem. I still liked this episode, but as Leo stated it’s one that didn’t really need to exist.
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@DerpyFast

Oh, hey, remember that time when Ahuizotl straight up tried to murder Daring Do?



Oh, but Lord knows, that was just part of his totally justified actions that oh-so-clearly suggest that he’s a misunderstood hero and hasn’t been explicitly villainous this entire time. Oh, and I have to say that the notion that unleashing the sweltering heat would have been a good thing for the valley is utterly ridiculous. That’s not something the audience can reasonably infer. You want to give them the "benefit of the doubt", but what exactly have they done to earn it? Nothing, as far as I’m friggin’ concerned. Because I’m more inclined to believe that the writer of Daring Doubt has never even seen Daring Don’t, rather than that it was taken into any consideration when trying to ludicrously paint Ahuizotl as the good guy.

And what gets me more than anything is that this episode seemed intended to piss all over Daring Do’s legacy, especially considering the ending scene which implied that no one is interested in AK Yearling’s books anymore, and that coupled with the revelation that she’s been a total jackass this whole time thoroughly suggests that Daring Do is pretty much over.
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Right. "His side of the story." Which is that all he’s ever done was protect ancient artifacts from mean old Daring Do and Caballeron who keep on trying to steal them. It absolutely suggests that he’s the one who’s been getting dicked over this whole time, and that Daring Do is mostly the reason why.
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@DerpyFast
I kinda had a thought that they were parodies because of how they hit every single archaeologist cliche in the book so that’s why I didn’t take them seriously.
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@rdibp

@Miss Shy
Exactly. He’s just doing his job.

And what gets me more than anything is that this episode seemed intended to piss all over Daring Do’s legacy, especially considering the ending scene which implied that no one is interested in AK Yearling’s books anymore, and that coupled with the revelation that she’s been a total jackass this whole time thoroughly suggests that Daring Do is pretty much over.


What legacy? She’s an Indiana Jones parody. It’s like saying "They ruined the legacy of Austin Powers or Spaceballs."

Right. "His side of the story." Which is that all he’s ever done was protect ancient artifacts from mean old Daring Do and Caballeron who keep on trying to steal them. It absolutely suggests that he’s the one who’s been getting dicked over this whole time, and that Daring Do is mostly the reason why.


That doesn’t suddenly paint him as the good guy. It just means he has a motivation beyond being a one-dimensional bad guy.

When you really think about it, there’s a lot that could be learned from studying ancient ruins, and yet Daring Do is fine with letting them collapse if it means defeating her arch-nemesis and escaping with the artifact. She’s not bad per se, but she sees these ruins as sources of treasure and stories to profit off of, not as priceless pieces of history that should be preserved.
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Y’know, after this kind of episode, it really makes you wonder: is Tirek going to have some BS reason explained for why he drains magic in the final two-parter, so that he was noble all along? Is Chrysalis gonna get a reveal that shows why she was right all along to insist that they should steal love as changelings? Cozy Glow?

I’m… kind of scared actually.
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@AWGear
Not really, but it’s consistent with his motivation.


@ILoveMyoozik
I kind of feel bad for Daring Do fans, but I feel like if someone is unironically invested in Daring Do, then they may have missed the point.

I really appreciate the idea of using characters that have, up to this point, been the designated one-dimensional good guys and bad guys to make a point that not everything is as clear-cut as it might seem.
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@DerpyFast
Yeah me too. Since I was never invested in the character, I really can’t feel that much disappointed over the conclusion of this arc, but if I was a fan of her, I would feel that way.

Now that I look at it, Daring Do wasn’t really a character to be taken that seriously with the way how you put it cause again, I always thought of it as a cliche parody of Indiana Jones and archaeologist/adventurer stories.
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What legacy?


Well, Daring Do has only had…what…four episodes centered on her now? That’s the legacy I’m talking about. She was a character with whom we were supposedly meant to have some semblance of investment, and this ending that her character got is utter crap.

And I’m sorry, but suggesting that bringing upon the unrelenting heat was a positive thing is nothing more than trying to bend and twist his past actions so that it fits the narrative of him not being totally villainous. Nothing about Daring Don’t suggested that it might be a positive thing for anyone.
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Depth is good… until it turns out that it breaks the whole thing apart.

We’re meant to assume that the reasons they are one-dimensional is because there’s been an escalation over time, that the nuances have already been addressed and dismissed, because if something as simple as talking to your so-called lifelong nemesis is able to solve a career-long conflict, then… well, why didn’t it happen after all this time?

We’ve seen an escalation take place over the entire Daring Do arc, yet only now does it turn out that the show’s namesake can apply to and solve the whole damn thing, whereas before it seemed like all positions were too entrenched for it.

But no. Turns out it was all just so easy to solve.

@Spinny

Right.

The episode is just a glorified fix-fic, with the writer acting like a smartass that knows better than everyone that’s worked on the arc before them or just… not giving a damn about it and wanting to get it out of the way. Rian Johnson would be proud.
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@Spinny
And I’m sorry, but suggesting that bringing upon the unrelenting heat was a positive thing is nothing more than trying to bend and twist his past actions so that it fits the narrative of him not being totally villainous.
Yes, how dare we try to reinterpret his character and past actions based on new, entirely unknown information about him.


@Poison Trail
if something as simple as talking to your so-called lifelong nemesis is able to solve a career-long conflict, then… well, why didn’t it happen after all this time?
Maybe because sometimes, when you’ve decided to see someone in a particular light, and treat them accordingly, it becomes very difficult to see them any other way, and their actions (devoid of important context) only serve to further your own already held convictions about them.


@Poison Trail
The episode is just a glorified fix-fic, with the writer acting like a smartass that knows better than everyone that’s worked on the arc before them
Something they have in common with a few of the more vocal fans of the show, apparently.

Or they would if any part of that utterly ridiculous statement was true, anyway.
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@Background Pony #1370
@Spinny
Unrelenting, sweltering heat is the natural climate of jungles.
And I’m sorry, but suggesting that bringing upon the unrelenting heat was a positive thing is nothing more than trying to bend and twist his past actions so that it fits the narrative of him not being totally villainous.
At this point, it’s stubbornness & willful ignorance.
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@Background Pony #1370
Yes, how dare we try to reinterpret his character and past actions based on new, entirely unknown information about him.


Again, outright attempting to murder Daring Do kinda leaves him without any moral high ground whatsoever. Sorry.

@Vivace

Willful ignorance, huh? Okay, let’s assume that for whatever reason, this jungle, unlike literally the rest of Equestria cannot maintain its own climate. It needs the Rings of Scorchero to maintain the sweltering heat that presumably will not disturb the habitats of all the jungle animals, or even kill them off, but instead, it will provide a more suitable habitat for them to live. Now, remind me, what happened to the last ring by the end of the episode?

Hold on, let me think. Uhhh…uhhh…



Oh, that’s right! It fell to the ground and shattered to pieces, thereby ensuring that it could never be used to provide a hospitable climate to the jungle again! Oh, no! That sounds terrible! Oh, but wait, there’s more! Lest we forget, of course, mean old Daring Do was not the only one who stopped Ahuizotl from saving the jungle! No, far from it! The mane six themselves, our very own main characters, accompanied Daring Do on this adventure and are just as much to blame for this as well!!! Oh, say it ain’t so, say it ain’t so!!!!

Our very own main characters did a cruel and evil thing, because this is what WE ARE FORCED to assume instead of the notion that Ahuizotl is a villain. We have to believe that not just Daring Do, but the mane six themselves are responsible for the PERMANENT climate imbalance of this jungle!!!

So yeah, please forgive my ignorance and my assumption that the show would not so callously (and retroactively) throw the mane six under the bus just to suggest that Ahuizotl is a misunderstood hero.
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