Season 9 Discussion Thread [NO SPOILERS, DF airings only]
AC97 
@gingerninja666
Probably not.
Plus, it had the caveat not often seen of their voices not switching. Angel as Fluttershy had her voice, but with a different tone.
That in and of itself is uncommon, no? With most cartoons, Fluttershy would probably have been talking as a rabbit.
I don’t think you can really say it’s a “generic body swap episode” and have it be mostly truthful.
Probably not.
Plus, it had the caveat not often seen of their voices not switching. Angel as Fluttershy had her voice, but with a different tone.
That in and of itself is uncommon, no? With most cartoons, Fluttershy would probably have been talking as a rabbit.
I don’t think you can really say it’s a “generic body swap episode” and have it be mostly truthful.
Spinny 
Resident Spin Fetishist
@gingerninja666
Eh, same concepts still, right up to the smug witch doctor (in this case, Zecora) who acts like they’re doing them a huge favor and that they’ll “thank her someday.”
Also, I still wonder how Angel instantly knew how to speak in English (or Ponish, whatever). I know he generally understands what Fluttershy is saying, but he’s still never used the language himself.
Eh, same concepts still, right up to the smug witch doctor (in this case, Zecora) who acts like they’re doing them a huge favor and that they’ll “thank her someday.”
Also, I still wonder how Angel instantly knew how to speak in English (or Ponish, whatever). I know he generally understands what Fluttershy is saying, but he’s still never used the language himself.
Mr.Myoozik 
Music Connoisseur
@Background Pony #1370
Whoever you are, I love you and please make an account cause I really like your posts.
Whoever you are, I love you and please make an account cause I really like your posts.
AC97
Yes, please, we need a username to attach to your posts.
@Background Pony #1370
Whoever you are, I love you and please make an account cause I really like your posts.
Yes, please, we need a username to attach to your posts.
Poison Trail 
Yknow, for as much as I talked about a golden ending, it does turn out AK and Caballeron gave up their previous careers only to be upstaged by the one that made them so do, sooooo…. yeah.
That arc sure needed a good fixing!
That arc sure needed a good fixing!
DerpyFast 
Yes, we are accepting a thing that’s consistent with what’s been established. That’s what you do when you consume fiction…
Way to refute an argument no one is making. Nobody is saying he’s this perfect, altruistic goody-two-shoes. Just that he has a more complex motivation that the one-dimensional bad guy Daring Do paints him as.
It might just be a reminder to perform the ceremony in order to maintain the climate. Daring Do, a hugely successful novelist, might have just interpreted it as a prophecy to make it sound more dramatic.
Which would raise the question of why the natives are supporting Ahuizotl. It’s the word of the ponies who actually live there and are supporting the ceremony versus the word of a pony who lies about her identity and steals artifacts.
The point of the episode is that you shouldn’t be afraid to re-evaluate your views when confronted with new evidence. Life is full of situations where people think they’re doing the right thing, but it turns out they’re wrong.
Okay, so now we’re accepting that arbitrary magical rings are needed for a habitable climate in the jungle.
Yes, we are accepting a thing that’s consistent with what’s been established. That’s what you do when you consume fiction…
If the rings are all about doing good things for the jungle, why exactly are they going to ensure that Ahuizotl maintains a hold on a fortress, presumably the one in which those natives live (and whom I assume are some kind of tribal cult dedicated to ensuring that he stays in power)? Kinda seems like there’s actually something in it for him, doesn’t there? Like it’s not completely altruistic or necessarily for the good of the jungle.
Way to refute an argument no one is making. Nobody is saying he’s this perfect, altruistic goody-two-shoes. Just that he has a more complex motivation that the one-dimensional bad guy Daring Do paints him as.
Oh, and prophecy? This was actually prophesied?! That’s quite interesting for a ritual of which the primary purpose is presumably a necessity for the jungle’s environment.
It might just be a reminder to perform the ceremony in order to maintain the climate. Daring Do, a hugely successful novelist, might have just interpreted it as a prophecy to make it sound more dramatic.
And have we yet to take into consideration the obvious? That Daring Do outright says that this would be “dooming the valley?” I mean, Lord knows the once-great Daring Do’s credibility is so far down the shitter at this point that what she says shouldn’t actually matter, but surely if there’s a prophecy about all this, maybe that’s where she got her information in the first place? That if there’s a prophecy, maybe it outright says that this will dry up all water sources and bring about the deaths of the creatures living in the jungle?
Which would raise the question of why the natives are supporting Ahuizotl. It’s the word of the ponies who actually live there and are supporting the ceremony versus the word of a pony who lies about her identity and steals artifacts.
Look, I really don’t see how I’m the unreasonable one for suggesting that maybe, just maybe, this blatant attempt to whitewash Ahuizotl’s past actions doesn’t exactly fit all wrapped up perfectly with a nice little bow. That it’s absolutely ridiculous that the mane six’s own actions in an episode can be so blatantly and retroactively turned on their head to suggest that what they were doing was wrong. And that this is the sour note that Daring Do’s legacy deserves to die on—her being washed up and finished while were once arch-nemesis enjoys newfound success as a writer.
The point of the episode is that you shouldn’t be afraid to re-evaluate your views when confronted with new evidence. Life is full of situations where people think they’re doing the right thing, but it turns out they’re wrong.
Nightweaver20xx 
Evil
I just finally saw Daring Doubt.
Yep. That was an episode, all right.
Oh look, a clusterfuck and people spazzing out over it. leaves
Yep. That was an episode, all right.
Oh look, a clusterfuck and people spazzing out over it. leaves
Vivace
“ShimSham my GlimGlams”
Fluttershy, reading while flying is dangerous.
Ooh, is Fluttershy a bigger fan than Rainbow Dash?
Groom Q.Q. Martingale? Did he write Celestial Game of Thrones too? Wait a sec… Fluttershy, didn’t the fact that the author wasn’t A.K. Yearling tip you off that this wasn’t really a Daring Do novel?
I guess most ponies outside South Equestria didn’t know that Dr. Cabaleron exists.
Does Groom know about Dr. Cabaleron being a thief as well? Obviously.
Did RD just call her Buttershy?
Dash, didn’t you learn already that Daring’s escapades have caused damage and grief for civilians, and that the fact that it being for a good cause doesn’t mitigate any pony’s anger?
Kicks puppies? If you mean that literally, dial it the fuck back, Martingale. Sounds like you’re lying.
Daring Do sounds like a memoir.
Ok, so you dress up in Daring Do costumes to complain to her? That’s so pathetically petty.
Ok, Martingale likes hitting below the belt. Dick.
Hey, no cutsies!
“Daring Do’s arch nemesis created a fake authorself so he can write books that make him sound like a hero! Who does that?”
“Uh, A.K. Yearling?”
“This is totally different.”
The fact that he refers to Cabaleron as a different pony is what this site calls “sock puppetry.”
Was it an artistic choice to leave out Cabaleron kidnapping RD?
Hey, it’s November Rain.
The fang-thorn flowers are blue instead of red? Like I said, memoir, ignoring it just being an editor’s error.
If you’re selling artifacts to the highest bidder, does that mean you’re putting them in the gift shop? If you sell it, you can’t really study it by keeping it in your museum.
Turning on the waterworks with such an affectedly forlorn voice.
“She does destroy a lot of ancient sites.” Is Fluttershy channeling Pinkie’s 4th wall powers to see the flashback?
This sounds like a job that Applejack would be useful for.
What?! Come on, Daring Do, I just stood up for you, and now you tell me you did once kicked a puppy?
Puppy-kicker. Strips in front of foals. Damn, that’s a pretty fucked rap sheet. Also, is A.K. a literal costume on top of her adventurer persona? She took off the cape, wearing nothing under it, and boom! Her adventurer garb…ok, I’ll stop taking that so seriously.
Daring Do does not have a machete.
“Have you ever tried just talking to [the animals stampeding toward you]?” Uh, does his cutie mark look like yours?
“I can’t watch!” [closes eyes, opens one]
A few kind words from Fluttershy really brightens one’s day, huh?
That’s an overplayed little gag there.
This little “hope is lost!” ploy is so narmy. Fluttershy, are you taking him seriously? It’s so obvious he’s lying.
What’s wrong with leaving it there? It’s doing fine.
Why couldn’t you goons have made that bridge before?
It’s kinda hilarious how easy Fluttershy is to manipulate.
I remember someone saying that a villain in this show should pretend to be noble for sympathy points. Well, here you go.
Because of course you stole it.
Heh, he’s filing his nails.
The Deluxe Spa Package.
You’ll make a good tenor opera pony.
Bad guys can have multiple dimensions, too, ya know.
So, was causing 8 centuries of unrelenting, sweltering heat a way to dissuade ponies from happening upon any of the artifacts that Ahuizotl was in charge of? Seems so.
No shit, RD.
Uh, Yearling, you stripped into your Daring Do persona in front of a foal. Some pony’s gonna find out even if Cabaleron keeps his mouth shut.
Ok, some pony has got to be a less skilled writer. And those glasses are totally fake.
9x14 (The Last Laugh): 75
9x15 (2, 4, 6, Greaaat): 67
9x16 (A Trivial Pursuit): 72
9x17 (Summer Sun Setback): 76
9x18 (She Talks to Angel): 72
9x19 (Dragon Dropped): 70
9x20 (A Horse Shoe-in): 76
9x21 (Daring Doubt): 70
Ooh, is Fluttershy a bigger fan than Rainbow Dash?
Groom Q.Q. Martingale? Did he write Celestial Game of Thrones too? Wait a sec… Fluttershy, didn’t the fact that the author wasn’t A.K. Yearling tip you off that this wasn’t really a Daring Do novel?
I guess most ponies outside South Equestria didn’t know that Dr. Cabaleron exists.
Does Groom know about Dr. Cabaleron being a thief as well? Obviously.
Did RD just call her Buttershy?
Dash, didn’t you learn already that Daring’s escapades have caused damage and grief for civilians, and that the fact that it being for a good cause doesn’t mitigate any pony’s anger?
Kicks puppies? If you mean that literally, dial it the fuck back, Martingale. Sounds like you’re lying.
Daring Do sounds like a memoir.
Ok, so you dress up in Daring Do costumes to complain to her? That’s so pathetically petty.
Ok, Martingale likes hitting below the belt. Dick.
Hey, no cutsies!
“Daring Do’s arch nemesis created a fake authorself so he can write books that make him sound like a hero! Who does that?”
“Uh, A.K. Yearling?”
“This is totally different.”
The fact that he refers to Cabaleron as a different pony is what this site calls “sock puppetry.”
Was it an artistic choice to leave out Cabaleron kidnapping RD?
Hey, it’s November Rain.
The fang-thorn flowers are blue instead of red? Like I said, memoir, ignoring it just being an editor’s error.
If you’re selling artifacts to the highest bidder, does that mean you’re putting them in the gift shop? If you sell it, you can’t really study it by keeping it in your museum.
Turning on the waterworks with such an affectedly forlorn voice.
“She does destroy a lot of ancient sites.” Is Fluttershy channeling Pinkie’s 4th wall powers to see the flashback?
This sounds like a job that Applejack would be useful for.
What?! Come on, Daring Do, I just stood up for you, and now you tell me you did once kicked a puppy?
Puppy-kicker. Strips in front of foals. Damn, that’s a pretty fucked rap sheet. Also, is A.K. a literal costume on top of her adventurer persona? She took off the cape, wearing nothing under it, and boom! Her adventurer garb…ok, I’ll stop taking that so seriously.
Daring Do does not have a machete.
“Have you ever tried just talking to [the animals stampeding toward you]?” Uh, does his cutie mark look like yours?
“I can’t watch!” [closes eyes, opens one]
A few kind words from Fluttershy really brightens one’s day, huh?
That’s an overplayed little gag there.
This little “hope is lost!” ploy is so narmy. Fluttershy, are you taking him seriously? It’s so obvious he’s lying.
What’s wrong with leaving it there? It’s doing fine.
Why couldn’t you goons have made that bridge before?
It’s kinda hilarious how easy Fluttershy is to manipulate.
I remember someone saying that a villain in this show should pretend to be noble for sympathy points. Well, here you go.
Because of course you stole it.
Heh, he’s filing his nails.
The Deluxe Spa Package.
You’ll make a good tenor opera pony.
Bad guys can have multiple dimensions, too, ya know.
So, was causing 8 centuries of unrelenting, sweltering heat a way to dissuade ponies from happening upon any of the artifacts that Ahuizotl was in charge of? Seems so.
No shit, RD.
Uh, Yearling, you stripped into your Daring Do persona in front of a foal. Some pony’s gonna find out even if Cabaleron keeps his mouth shut.
Ok, some pony has got to be a less skilled writer. And those glasses are totally fake.
9x14 (The Last Laugh): 75
9x15 (2, 4, 6, Greaaat): 67
9x16 (A Trivial Pursuit): 72
9x17 (Summer Sun Setback): 76
9x18 (She Talks to Angel): 72
9x19 (Dragon Dropped): 70
9x20 (A Horse Shoe-in): 76
9x21 (Daring Doubt): 70
Mr.Myoozik
Music Connoisseur
@LeoNero
I didn’t like the episode either, but I can forgive some things from it
I didn’t like the episode either, but I can forgive some things from it
AWGear 
The Devil's Advocate
@LeoNero
@ILoveMyoozik
I think episode was alright in what it wanted to do, it’s just that it could have been done much better and in much more “meaningfull” way. So, I guess I’m part of minority too.
@ILoveMyoozik
I think episode was alright in what it wanted to do, it’s just that it could have been done much better and in much more “meaningfull” way. So, I guess I’m part of minority too.
Background Pony #9AD0
So… Daring Doubt.
- Blatantly contradicts previous episodes. Writers didn’t even try to handwave their blatant plot-holes.
- Even if writers managed to hand-wave those contradictions, it’s still definitely ruined the Daring Do plotline, and made everything prior to it completely useless.
Vivace
“ShimSham my GlimGlams”
[
You know, those writer related comments are getting a little old. You may be entitled to have a negative opinion of their work, but assuming that it could only be the result of ignorance or not caring is more than a little insulting.And I don’t see where you’re getting inconsistent behavior or ignored character dynamics from. Is Caballeron not ultimately shown to be a sneaky and cunning thief in it for the money, like he’s always been shown to be in the past? Is Daring Do not shown to be a bold adventurer ready to rush in and stop his plans, as she’s always been shown doing in the past? Is Ahuizotl not still there trying to stop them, violent and ferocious as he’s always been shown to be in the past? They are all portrayed exactly the same, really. The only real difference in any of this is Fluttershy doing what none of them have ever done, and what has been a part of her element from the very beginning, and listening to them beyond the dramatic movie serial style declarations they’re all parodies of.
](/pony/season-9-discussion-thread-no-spoilers/post/4530032#post_4530032)
AWGear
The issue is not that this was changed. The issue is that writters made Caballeron’s motive to be nothing more than personal gain, which is extreamly basic. They could have gone for the more intersting thing they set up at the beguining of the episode, and give him deeper motive to what he was doing, but instead all they did was make him to be the most generic bad guy in this kind of story.
Yea, but Caballeron and Ahuizotl are HER antagonist that are only existing in HER arc. Having Fluttershy just randomly come into the story like a bloody Lord and Saviour, and redeem 2 villians who had nothing to do with her in the first place, robs Daring Doo from being able to get a closure on her own story. Fluttershy had nothing to do with the Daring Do plots untill now, so there is no reason to give her ANOTHER redeemption story in this season. She already managed to redeem 2 antagonists, which already was too much.
Yea, and the reasoning for his actions makes no sense. He has been trying to destroy the valley the pervious time we saw him. He tried to kill Daring Doo by drowning her for a mere theft (at most). And now, the episode tries to paint him as “only trying to defend himself and the jungle”. Yea, that doesn’t work. He shouldn’t have gotten redemption at all. Especially he shouldn’t have been shown as “misunderstood”. He tried to murder somepony in a rather gruesome and painfull way, and there should be no forgiveness for that.
What would actually make this episode better, if Caballeron would sacrifice himself to protect Daring Doo and Fluttershy from Auizothl, both villian’s dieing in the proces. Caballeron would get his “redemption” and the monster would be, what he should have been, a Monster.
The Devil's Advocate
Is Caballeron not ultimately shown to be a sneaky and cunning thief in it for the money, like he’s always been shown to be in the past?
The issue is not that this was changed. The issue is that writters made Caballeron’s motive to be nothing more than personal gain, which is extreamly basic. They could have gone for the more intersting thing they set up at the beguining of the episode, and give him deeper motive to what he was doing, but instead all they did was make him to be the most generic bad guy in this kind of story.
Is Daring Do not shown to be a bold adventurer ready to rush in and stop his plans, as she’s always been shown doing in the past?
Yea, but Caballeron and Ahuizotl are HER antagonist that are only existing in HER arc. Having Fluttershy just randomly come into the story like a bloody Lord and Saviour, and redeem 2 villians who had nothing to do with her in the first place, robs Daring Doo from being able to get a closure on her own story. Fluttershy had nothing to do with the Daring Do plots untill now, so there is no reason to give her ANOTHER redeemption story in this season. She already managed to redeem 2 antagonists, which already was too much.
Is Ahuizotl not still there trying to stop them, violent and ferocious as he’s always been shown to be in the past?
Yea, and the reasoning for his actions makes no sense. He has been trying to destroy the valley the pervious time we saw him. He tried to kill Daring Doo by drowning her for a mere theft (at most). And now, the episode tries to paint him as “only trying to defend himself and the jungle”. Yea, that doesn’t work. He shouldn’t have gotten redemption at all. Especially he shouldn’t have been shown as “misunderstood”. He tried to murder somepony in a rather gruesome and painfull way, and there should be no forgiveness for that.
What would actually make this episode better, if Caballeron would sacrifice himself to protect Daring Doo and Fluttershy from Auizothl, both villian’s dieing in the proces. Caballeron would get his “redemption” and the monster would be, what he should have been, a Monster.
Vivace
“ShimSham my GlimGlams”
The issue is not that this was changed. The issue is that writters made Caballeron’s motive to be nothing more than personal gain, which is extreamly basic. They could have gone for the more intersting thing they set up at the beguining of the episode, and give him deeper motive to what he was doing, but instead all they did was make him to be the most generic bad guy in this kind of story.
Literally everyone else voicing criticism is doing so based on supposed “changes.” So I kinda agree that it’s not an issue, but literally no one else is worried about how Cabaleron isn’t some deep guy. He’s a villain parody, so he was never likely to be deep to begin with. He’s also prone to lying, which is what he did in the beginning. And isn’t personal gain a motivation for most villains in this series?
Yea, but Caballeron and Ahuizotl are HER antagonist that are only existing in HER arc. Having Fluttershy just randomly come into the story like a bloody Lord and Saviour, and redeem 2 villians who had nothing to do with her in the first place, robs Daring Doo from being able to get a closure on her own story. Fluttershy had nothing to do with the Daring Do plots untill now, so there is no reason to give her ANOTHER redeemption story in this season. She already managed to redeem 2 antagonists, which already was too much.
Daring Do isn’t the only one with a perspective, & Fluttershy sees this. Being a more casual fan than Rainbow Dash, on top of being the element of kindness, allows her to be more immediately receptive of nuance and willing to consider others’ stances.
Yea, and the reasoning for his actions makes no sense. He has been trying to destroy the valley the pervious time we saw him. He tried to kill Daring Doo by drowning her for a mere theft (at most). And now, the episode tries to paint him as “only trying to defend himself and the jungle”. Yea, that doesn’t work. He shouldn’t have gotten redemption at all. Especially he shouldn’t have been shown as “misunderstood”.
He’s violent and ferocious, so he’s not a hero, but the fact that his base intention is noble keeps him from being a total villain. Neither side mutually excludes the other unless you have no sense for nuance and resort to dumbing down. No, he wasn’t trying to destroy the valley when unrelenting & unsweltering heat is its standard. The episode’s message is not to fear reevaluating your perceptions, and this sounds like a real reluctance to do so.
He tried to murder somepony in a rather gruesome and painfull way, and there should be no forgiveness for that.
There are a lot of things that get forgiven in this show that people protest. This isn’t special.
What would actually make this episode better, if Caballeron would sacrifice himself to protect Daring Doo and Fluttershy from Auizothl, both villian’s dieing in the proces. Caballeron would get his “redemption” and the monster would be, what he should have been, a Monster.
Nah, can’t back that. And wow, man, you want the pony to be multidimensional while the guy who looks like a monster is a one-note monster in behavior? Maybe you should rewatch Beauty & the Beast.
Spinny
Yeah, well, he’s tried to kill her, so… (shrugs). I kinda don’t really care if she paints him that way.
You’re highlighting the exact issue I have with this. I was just being sarcastic by saying that Daring Do has no credibility left, but you nevertheless think it’s true. That’s exactly the point. You now think less of her as a result of this oh-so-sudden revelation that Ahuizotl has just been this misunderstood savior of ancient artifacts. And I’m just really not behind this idea that Daring Do deserves to be torn down so that Ahuizotl can be propped up. I don’t even feel that Daring Do is a thief, necessarily. She’s an adventurer, it’s her calling in life, and I can understand the logic that there are treasures out there just waiting to be collected and she feels that she’s the only pony who’s daring enough to find them. On top of this, she has demonstrably put the well-being of others before her desires to acquire treasure.
We can keep going back and forth about Ahuizotl’s actions in Daring Don’t, but I don’t really care to do that anymore. It’s obvious as hell that when that episode was written, Ahuizotl was, beyond any doubt, written as a villain. So that’s why this attempt to retroactively change that narrative comes across as utter bullshit to me, as do your and others attempts to explain away his villainous actions and motives.
The sheer level mental gymnastics necessary to suggest that Daring Do, and the mane six, of course, were the true villains of Daring Don’t rather than the murderous, maniacally-laughing Ahuizotl makes the effort way more strenuous than it’s worth.
Have you considered, perhaps, that what Ahuizotl said when he “told the truth” was nothing more than a reflection of how he views himself in order to justify what he does?
Resident Spin Fetishist
Just that he has a more complex motivation that the one-dimensional bad guy Daring Do paints him as.
Yeah, well, he’s tried to kill her, so… (shrugs). I kinda don’t really care if she paints him that way.
Daring Do, a hugely successful novelist, might have just interpreted it as a prophecy to make it sound more dramatic.
It’s the word of the ponies who actually live there and are supporting the ceremony versus the word of a pony who lies about her identity and steals artifacts.
You’re highlighting the exact issue I have with this. I was just being sarcastic by saying that Daring Do has no credibility left, but you nevertheless think it’s true. That’s exactly the point. You now think less of her as a result of this oh-so-sudden revelation that Ahuizotl has just been this misunderstood savior of ancient artifacts. And I’m just really not behind this idea that Daring Do deserves to be torn down so that Ahuizotl can be propped up. I don’t even feel that Daring Do is a thief, necessarily. She’s an adventurer, it’s her calling in life, and I can understand the logic that there are treasures out there just waiting to be collected and she feels that she’s the only pony who’s daring enough to find them. On top of this, she has demonstrably put the well-being of others before her desires to acquire treasure.
We can keep going back and forth about Ahuizotl’s actions in Daring Don’t, but I don’t really care to do that anymore. It’s obvious as hell that when that episode was written, Ahuizotl was, beyond any doubt, written as a villain. So that’s why this attempt to retroactively change that narrative comes across as utter bullshit to me, as do your and others attempts to explain away his villainous actions and motives.
The point of the episode is that you shouldn’t be afraid to re-evaluate your views when confronted with new evidence.
The sheer level mental gymnastics necessary to suggest that Daring Do, and the mane six, of course, were the true villains of Daring Don’t rather than the murderous, maniacally-laughing Ahuizotl makes the effort way more strenuous than it’s worth.
Have you considered, perhaps, that what Ahuizotl said when he “told the truth” was nothing more than a reflection of how he views himself in order to justify what he does?
Vivace
“ShimSham my GlimGlams”
Yeah, well, he’s tried to kill her, so… (shrugs). I kinda don’t really care if she paints him that way.
Doesn’t matter if you don’t care. It turns out that he’s not simply the one-dimensional bad guy without a valid perspective that you’ve insisted on pigeonholing him as.
You now think less of her as a result of this oh-so-sudden revelation that Ahuizotl has just been this misunderstood savior of ancient artifacts.
Until he confirms it to be the case, that’s just your assumption.
Have you considered, perhaps, that what Ahuizotl said when he “told the truth” was nothing more than a reflection of how he views himself in order to justify what he does?
He was physically touching the Truth Talisman, rendering him incapable of lying. Otherwise, how does one explain Cabaleron bluntly stating while touching it that he took the artifacts to profit off of them? It’s that’s what “telling the truth” is when he does it, the same applies to Daring Do. If you’re suggesting that Ahuizotl was lying to himself, you’re plainly wrong. For real, though, a sense of nuance is a good thing to have.
Background Pony #86C3
Still tolerable for the creatures already living there, of course,And how exactly do you know that this part is true? This seems like a big increase in the heat if it’s meant to keep outsiders from entering. If it’s just like an extra ten degrees that isn’t going to stop someone looking for a huge payday. Not to mention that water systems require certain temperatures. Endless heat of this level (likely over a hundred degrees constantly) will dry up a lot of the water in the area, which guess what? Is harmful to the animals. His apparent goal was to stop intruders. He doesn’t need the animals for that if it gets hot enough.
A fair point. None of us really know what would have happened if he had finished placing the rings, because he gets stopped before it happens. But in the light of new information, specifically the reveal that he’s a guardian of the area, I can’t help but notice that he describes what will follow as “sweltering” heat. Not scorching or burning or searing or any of the other words that would lead you to believe he’ll turn the jungle into some desiccated desert region, but sweltering, which is a word that (in my experience) is usually associated with excess moisture and humidity. And thinking on that, if the rings increase overall humidity, he wouldn’t even need to do anything with the heat. Talk to anyone who’s experienced the difference between 90 degrees in an arid climate, and one in a highly humid region, and they’ll almost certainly tell you the humid one feels a thousand times hotter, even if they are the exact same temperature overall. For any creature dependent on dissipating heat through evaporative cooling (and fun fact, horses, like humans, are among relatively few mammals who produce large amounts of sweat in order to cool down), a highly humid environment even has actual deleterious physical effects, like a decline in physical strength, mental capacity and alertness, and a more rapid onset of fatigue. All things that would serve well to slow down or drive away the two individuals who seem to be taking most of the stuff he’s trying to protect.
It’s still a bit extreme in the end, of course, but given his increasing desperation to hang onto some of these artifacts and a self description that includes the word “ferocious”, it kind of makes sense that he’d resort to some extreme measures.
@Spinny
It’s still a bit extreme in the end, of course, but given his increasing desperation to hang onto some of these artifacts and a self description that includes the word “ferocious”, it kind of makes sense that he’d resort to some extreme measures.
@Spinny
Okay, so now we’re accepting that arbitrary magical rings are needed for a habitable climate in the jungle.
Again, I’m not saying they’re needed. I’m saying if they were, it wouldn’t be inconsistent to the world at all, given how many other examples there are of the climate being controllable through magic.
@Spinny
@Spinny
And have we yet to take into consideration the obvious? That Daring Do outright says that this would be “dooming the valley?”
I think that’s been mentioned before. Usually with the rest of her statement, the part about what it’s being doomed to (the 800 years of heat) intact. But as I said earlier on here, we don’t necessarily have to assume using the rings will take a blast furnace to the jungle and leave it a burned out husk. There are ways around that particular problem, that still allow Ahuizotl to make the jungle more inhospitable to ponies without affecting anything else too drastically, if you’re willing to meet the episode halfway about some stuff.
@Spinny
@Spinny
That it’s absolutely ridiculous that the mane six’s own actions in an episode can be so blatantly and retroactively turned on their head to suggest that what they were doing was wrong.
Is it? I’m not saying that’s what happened here, or that it’s as blatant as you think it is if it did, but it also wouldn’t be the first time on this show that additional information has re-framed a character or encounters with them in the past. I mean, Diamond Tiara’s comeuppance in older episodes can be something of a different experience now, knowing what kind of mother she was raised by. Watching the changeling invasion of Canterlot is a lot harsher with the knowledge that they were driven to do so by lies and starvation. Twilight’s old hero worship of Star Swirl the Bearded seems a lot more naive, knowing that he never fully understood friendship, and trapped a former friend turned enemy with his fellow Pillars for hundreds of years as a result. All these things and more have changed as our knowledge of the events and the characters involved have too, and sometimes that even means actions we once saw as good instead turn out to have been the wrong way to go about it. And honestly, that’s not necessarily a bad thing to show. Real life seldom presents us with a complete, entirely truthful story. We are all wrong sometimes, about the people we have opinions of and the things we believe, but the importance of seeking out that information, and acting on it moving forward, cannot be stressed enough. Even if it has to be in subtext, as is arguably the case here.
@AWGear
@AWGear
Is Caballeron not ultimately shown to be a sneaky and cunning thief in it for the money, like he’s always been shown to be in the past?The issue is not that this was changed. The issue is that writters made Caballeron’s motive to be nothing more than personal gain, which is extreamly basic. They could have gone for the more intersting thing they set up at the beguining of the episode, and give him deeper motive to what he was doing, but instead all they did was make him to be the most generic bad guy in this kind of story.
What’s wrong with a basic motivation? In a way he’s a bit like Die Hard‘s iconic villain Hans Gruber… ruthless, methodical, and good at covering his actual goals with carefully planned deceptions. Yet at the end of the day, he’s just a simple thief. He’s out to get rich and retire, and there doesn’t really need to be any more to it than that.
@AWGear
@AWGear
Fluttershy had nothing to do with the Daring Do plots untill now, so there is no reason to give her ANOTHER redeemption story in this season. She already managed to redeem 2 antagonists, which already was too much.
Except it would have been hard to do this without Fluttershy, really. She is pretty much the go to when it comes to giving bad guys (or their lackeys) a friendly ear, after all.
Really they’re just taking full advantage of her established character traits. Which is what I thought people always wanted from an episode featuring any of the mane 6.
Really they’re just taking full advantage of her established character traits. Which is what I thought people always wanted from an episode featuring any of the mane 6.
Nightweaver20xx
Evil
@Background Pony #1370
Fluttershy’s power may be the greatest of the Mane 6. She’s certainly the most empathetic and patient of all of them, and I at least saw the episode as a real demonstration of that power. She is the embodiment of what Friendship is Magic is supposed to be about, and plot discontinuity notwithstanding, the sheer fact that she was able to heel-face turn two of the most abjectly evil and selfish characters in the show really proves that she has an innate empathic ability that no one in the show has. I liked seeing it, and it was impressive to watch.
Fluttershy’s power may be the greatest of the Mane 6. She’s certainly the most empathetic and patient of all of them, and I at least saw the episode as a real demonstration of that power. She is the embodiment of what Friendship is Magic is supposed to be about, and plot discontinuity notwithstanding, the sheer fact that she was able to heel-face turn two of the most abjectly evil and selfish characters in the show really proves that she has an innate empathic ability that no one in the show has. I liked seeing it, and it was impressive to watch.
TheRocketMan
@DerpyFast
Your avatar is perfect for the mind set you have when thinking about episodes.
Your avatar is perfect for the mind set you have when thinking about episodes.
Background Pony #F199
Probably the writer of 9.21 Daring Doubt. Would be very fitting from how and what they write
@Background Pony #1370
Whoever you are, I love you and please make an account cause I really like your posts.
@Background Pony #1370
Whoever you are, I love you and please make an account cause I really like your posts.Yes, please, we need a username to attach to your posts.
Probably the writer of 9.21 Daring Doubt. Would be very fitting from how and what they write
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