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Ban racist jokes, memes and Aryanne

Started by daveedila
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daveedila's avatar
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daveedila
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

leveebreaker
After the New Zealand attack this site really needs to look at the content it hosts that encourages people in the same mindset of the shooter.

We should ban white supremacist memes, symbols, and OCs from this site. The less access normal people have to hateful rhetoric even in the form of jokes, the better. I don’t want racists and /pol/ stains to feel welcome on this site. I thought this site was better than Xchan.
Most aryanne content looks like glorifying pro nazi propaganda anyway. I know some will say it is just a joke, but the really dangerous people don’t realize that or will feign ignorance like "it’s just a joke" to weasel out of any wrongdoing. It just takes one guy to say "heil aryanne" and then go on a killing spree to ruin it for everyone. I want to help prevent that nightmare.

If racist shooters can hide in the crowd of people who just find it funny then these memes can’t be hosted in good conscience anymore. I personally laughed at all the joke the shooter liked and that was a wake up call. These are not innocent memes
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I will contain my laughter and state plainly there is nothing that fascists cannot corrupt and trying to stomp out everything they’re using will just make it harder to spot them; they are trying to make the okay sign (AKA finger circle) into one of their symbols.
It’s much more effective to get them come out into the light and then stomp on their open racism when they dare show it.
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I have to say, don’t EVER ban stuff like that. Banning stuff like that is part of the problem. Do you want to support the mass-banning of content because it could be associated with something not-nice?
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@daveedila
Just to be clear, any images, posts, or comments promoting any actual IRL Nazi, pro-Nazi, or similar groups or organizations are deleted as soon as they are reported.

For example, images promoting white or black "purges" or violent revolutions, and images promoting things like the "Nordic Resistance Movement" are deleted as soon as we become aware of them. There’s hundreds of images like that which we have removed from the site.

If you are aware of any images, posts, or comments supporting real-world Nazi or suprematist organizations please report them immediately. And remember, our #0 rule says:

Do not troll, attack, insult, name-call, or otherwise try to intentionally antagonize another person or group of people. This includes making racial, sexual, homophobic, or otherwise demeaning slurs, or posting similarly abusive content.

As for deleting Aryanne, parodies of those groups are not deleted if they are plausibly related to the MLP fandom, and Aryanne is both a parody of Nazis, and plausibly related to the MLP fandom.

By comparison, someone did try to upload a series of images that were an OC of an actual, literal Neo-Nazi organization, and those images were not allowed.

So, we do draw a line as to what is and is not permitted, and a lot of stuff related to the recent Christchurch murders and white supremacist movements and Neo-Nazi groups is being deleted on an ongoing basis, but sometimes it’s difficult to see where the line is because we don’t announce when things have been deleted.
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daveedila's avatar
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daveedila
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

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@Derpy Whooves
As for deleting Aryanne, parodies of those groups are not deleted if they are plausibly related to the MLP fandom, and Aryanne is both a parody of Nazis, and plausibly related to the MLP fandom.

>It’s just a joke
That is a matter of fact lie that racists love to shield behind. Schrodinger’s douchebag is something I already addressed in the OP.

I am happy that more overt stuff is canned but normalization and promotion of hate speech and dog whistling (the OK hand signal and "it’s ok to be white") has consequences even when it is promoted as parody.
Also actual racists do not care about the irony of a symbol’s origins, they will still use it. Overt acts of horror are built on many tinier act of everyday negligence such as allowing racist memes to be disseminated everyday.
If hosting these were for archival purposes then favs and votes would be disabled for this content, also know your meme already exist for archival purposes. The mere presence of these memes allows for the visibility of other like minded people who support harmful content via upvotes and favorites. Racists need to feel isolated and alone to put them in their place but seeing a positive or even even vote ratio lets a racist feel good about their dehumanizing beliefs.
These memes do more harm than good on this site. Especially when they all come from 4chan who has no good confidence of intent.

Hosting "it’s ok to be racist" memes up along side happy ponies normalizes racism regardless of original intent. see >>1987896 (why isn’t Aryanne’s Jewish Sex Slave banned? The account is literally loaded with white pride trash)

@Princess Luna
And yeah the OK symbol is a white supremacist symbol now cause they wont stop using it to ID each other. It doesn’t matter if they are overt or not, they will claim plausible deniability when called out and tread the line of just joking and extremist depend on the political perspective you come from. Just ban all racist content. Letting them have their fun is harmful. I used to think 8chan was just having fun until March 15th. I’m done pretending this content does not exist on this site
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@daveedila
I never said it was a joke, and I don’t think it’s funny. Nothing about this is funny. Having to deal with the REALLY horrific shit that we do delete has never been funny. Not once. But, without looking for specific examples because I don’t want to look at that shit, the other images you’re speculatively waving a hand at do not break our rules or – if they do break our rules – they haven’t been reported.

My personal opinions about those kinds of images is immaterial, and when I’m not on duty I filter them because fuck that shit – I don’t want to deal with it or the people who enjoy that kind of art. Try adding "nazi" and "mlpol" and "swastika" to your filters – it does a world of good.

Also, in the seven years you’ve been on the site, you’ve only reported 1 image for being Rule #0, which we deleted without hesitation. So if you honestly believe there are images on the site that break Rule #0, then report them. Please.
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@daveedila
Hate to break it to you, but this entire fandom comes from 4chan. We would not be here if it wasn’t from a bunch of people on /co/ making fun of an overly alarmistly toned article regarding advertising driven television cartoons.
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@daveedila
Just ban all racist content.
Define racist content. Hint: you cannot, blanket bans like this are absolutely idiotic since they can and will hit "good" content and be exploited to target it explicitly.
And yeah the OK symbol is a white supremacist symbol now cause they wont stop using it to ID each other.
Ha ha lol go think about it instead. You ban OK symbol, what do supremacists do? Use another currently safe symbol. What do you do? Are unable to use a perfectly benign hand gesture without getting branded a racist. Which nicely demonstrates my first point, too. OK sign is an example of the good content that can easily be targetted by selfish and blind-sighted bans, with no malice or even actions whatsoever on the banner’s part. It can be done to things you know and love.
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Oh brother…

All this over one OC… I don’t see anyone over-reacting like this to a image of, oh say, Joseph Stalin or The Khans/Mongol Empire. Both of which committed more atrocities than the Nazis.

Heck, I’ve even seen images and memes related to the Crusades, a series of mass genocides created in a attempt the "free" the Holy Land (Jerusalem) from Islamic control, on this site.

Basically, you’re asking for only a small portion of history to be removed if you just want Aryanne to be removed.

Kind of reminds me how a lot of "Historically Accurate" games nowadays try their hardest to remove Nazism from World War 2 and add in stuff that didn’t exist back then.

Personally, I think you just need to either calm down and hide/spoiler the nazi and Aryanne tags, or just hide/spoil the tags and calm down afterwards.

The site has filters for a reason. Use them.
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That’s such an old hand gesture, too. Christians used it to identify each other in Pagan Rome. Many shows have used it to great effect, like The Prisoner ("Be seeing you") and even Babylon 5 (also – "Be seeing you"). Seeing them do that, knowing the history of the sign, from "The Game" (ps: the game) to it’s use in gay communities in the 90’s, to it’s current use by "straight white male underdogs looking for a way to identify each other in a world of hatred and genocide" it’s … chilling. And also very human.

So much of this has been going around for centuries. Hiding from it is no protection. At the same time, I’m a fan of not allowing assholes to use this place as a platform for promoting those kinds of agendas. Which, I’m sure some will be surprised to hear, we do not allow.

Because, first and foremost, this is a My Little Pony fansite. If people want to promote My Little Pony, they’re very welcome. Anything else? Well, maybe not. And in some circumstances, VERY not.

Are there images on this site that are disturbing and that most people would never want to host? Of course. From Aryanne to images depicting the rape of the bodies of mutilated and murdered foals. If you didn’t know those were on this site, for your sake don’t search for them.

But I collect Junko Mizuno pillow books.

And if I ran an art gallery (which I have) I would welcome the drawings of people from concentration camps and the drawings of Hitler and I would put them right along the paintings made by teenagers who were murdered by their parents for being gay.

And I fully expect to be one of the first up against the wall when the purge comes. Whether the purge is being waged by the extreme right OR the extreme left.

2LDR: This isn’t a juried gallery. But if it was I’d still be ok with some of the horrific shit that’s on this site, because art is what humans do, and sometimes it says things we don’t have any other way to express.

@Background Pony #791E
And some of us are from /b/, back when /b/ros used to fight "the good fight". Which of course makes us all an incredibly mixed batch of bastards, bitches, and overachieving yet somehow belligerent fuckups.

I’m glad we’re all here.

@daveedila – you’re welcome on the site, too. But this middle ground for how we’re handling fan art that we’ve got on the site is where we are for now. I hope you can find peace with it, and find a way to use your very valid and empowered feelings about this to make real change in the world. We’re an art site, and some of the art you think we shouldn’t host is art that we think we need to host. For now.

But, again – if you see any images that you think break Rule #0, please report them.

I can’t stress that enough. There’s 1,794,621 images on this site, sometimes a thousand or more new images a day, and about one to two dozen people on staff who are all already very busy with the things that we’re doing on a daily basis to keep the site running and happy. So we – I know some people think this is a lie, but it’s the truth – do not review or even SEE every image that gets uploaded.

And, if we’re doing our jobs, you will never see some of the images that we agree should not be on this site.

Which might be a part of the problem. People have trouble with the images that ARE here, and all I can think of is the images that AREN’T publicly viewable any more. I know "You should see the shit that we delete!" isn’t going to fix any of this for anyone, but … we can’t eliminate racism, or, as has been well pointed out, even define it any better than our Rule #0 already does.

Also, I know no one asked, but we have people on the site who are literal, card-carrying new-world Nazis, and (perhaps ironically) some of them are some of our better behaved users. Some of them tried to post things that we won’t host, and we explained that those things aren’t welcome here, and now they’re just here for the ponies. It’s a little like when you think you’re going to meet some Satanists and they’re going to be all "Grr" and black eye shadow, and instead they’re handing out food at the shelters and chaperoning Muslims to their Mosques and Jews to their Synagogues.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that we all have to fit on this planet somehow. And that’s a lot easier when we all get along, and everyone can abide by some simple fundamental rules.

This concludes my latest wall of text that I’m sure is going to earn me another bunch of death threats in my in box by the morning. Yay!
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@TheMultiBrony21
Oh brother…

All this over one OC… I don’t see anyone over-reacting like this to a image of, oh say, Joseph Stalin or The Khans/Mongol Empire.


Lolwat? Funny, I seem to see plenty of bronys completely pooping their pants in keyboard rage on the rare occasion when someone posts a Antifa image. Then suddenly all that "heh grow thicker skin snowflake" smugness curiously turns into REEEEEEEEEEEEE THIS SYMBOL IS PURE EVIL HOW COULD YOU DEFILE PONIES WITH THIS :(

https://derpibooru.org/897695

I mean look at this lol

>Hasbro should sue them

>fund right-wing death squads

>Now I just wanna see a bunch of skinheads curbstomping the angry little darlings while yelling "AJ is best pony, heil Celestia!"

>Hasbro should sue them for using MLP for their propaganda.

>Antifa is literally a terrorist organization and I don’t think the FiM message should be associated with that

Ohhhh, kinda touchy there are we guys? Quick, get these guys a safe space.

I don’t think the FiM message should be associated with that

Yeah some bronys outside that far-right bubble feel the same way about genocidal white supremacists, imagine that.

And no, I’m not saying to purge a bunch of images, I just had to point out the obvious hypocrisy. 3 cheers to @Derpy Whooves for putting in the work of keeping these neo-nazi assholes at bay. Didn’t even know it was that friggin bad.

The fact that the mods have to do this because so many white nationalists apparently see this site as a good place to recruit impressionable young lads lends some credibility to OP’s arguments and should give people pause. Do the mods have to work like that to keep say….ISIS from posting their qt OCs on here? Hmmm.
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@GenericArchangel

No, I understood that. My 2 biggest takeaways from what Derpy said were:

1) honest-to-Faust IRL white supremacist organizations are forbidden from posting their qt OCs here and yes they have tried. Like, holy shit. I didn’t know that. Yeesh.

2) the reporting system here that I’ve literally ignored for almost a decade is in fact worth a damn and can make this a better place for everyone

I will say that I unambiguously support a 100% sitewide ban on anything directly related to mass shooting perpetrators, so staff was ahead of the curve on that. Everyone keeps liking "DON’T SAY THE SHOOTERS NAME" posts when the news breaks…..time to walk the walk about not glorifying these guys imho.

Part of what makes Christchurch so horrifying is the creep was inspired by other shooters and now all these extremist jagoffs are fapping to the footage until one of them works up the nerve to do something similar.
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Wasn’t he actually just a nutjob who used ISIS and the Christian Church as excuses for his actions?

Fun fact: Christchurch and a terrorist organization are not to blame for his actions. His actions were his and his alone.

I mean, ISIS are worse than Neo-Nazis, Communists and regular Nazis, but they aren’t the ones that shot up a mosque.
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@TheMultiBrony21

Speaking as someone from the ’wrong’ part of the world, if i had to choose between a fool that would kill me if i disagreed with anything he said and a fool that would kill me if i was born to the wrong parents or in the wrong place and if i disagreed with anything he said, i’d rather take my chances with the former.

Most people might not have as much of a issue with Communist images here because you could theoretically have Communism without mass death (although it’s hard to make it happen), but with Nazism, the genocide is the whole point of the ideology. and besides, Communism is mostly dead, buried and completely discredited outside of its last holdouts.
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@Surprise
For me, Nazism could easily be turned into something good if the right person were to take it over.

Namely remove mass murder and genocide and replace them with calculated and orderly military strategies.

Essentially, do the Rommel. (A German who was opposed to the Holocaust and was one of the more decent "Nazis" at the time.)
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