nightshroud96
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@CORDZ2000  
The fact still remains.  
He did that stuff from behind everyone’s backs. No way in hell no one would go “How do I know he won’t pull something like this behind our backs again??”.  
Pretty much making Tartarus immune to reality-warpers like Discord from breaking anyone out should be a precaution. To ensure that doesn’t happen again regardless.
CORDZ2000
Solar Hero - Went above and beyond for the Solar Deity, drawing from the power of the sun itself to bring balance to the fight against the Lunar Insurrection (April Fools 2023).

Draconequues Lover zcord
@Background Pony #7D59
Honestly for me, I think what would at least be better is just put the trio into Tartarus. That way is much better if the writers wanted to leave it in the air on if they reform or not.
Tirek and Cozy Glow only got out due to Discord’s bullcrap. Just make it so not even Discord can pluck anyone out of there again(I mean, Celestia had a spell that kept Discord’s claws off of the Elements somehow) and add in even more measures and that would be it, no one would be breaking out of there.
 
Discord has no intention of breaking them out again anyways tho he learned his lesson
GrimChariot

@Background Pony #7D59  
Honestly?
 
Tirek and Chrysalis are basically useless without magic, put the Thrones material to use seeing as they decided using it for a military board game between Twilight and Shining Armor was a good idea instead of learning how it works to easily contain threats like Discord and Nightmare Moon by removing their greatest weapon.
 
Once they have limited access to magic, actually work on the underlying issues that have been going unaddressed(for centuries with Tirek) and try to rehabilitate them.
 
Cozy has issues but even without an Idea of why, we know she’s a pathological liar and manipulative by nature. Put here with people who can address that and work from there or even give a slight allusion as to who her parents are or where she came from.
 
Tirek would literally just need a good psychiatrist and time.
 
Chrysalis needs that and proof she’s not going to be shanked/forced to be nice to people she despises. She doesn’t need to like or even care about the mane six as anything but enemies, she needs to not be suspicious and distrustful of anything that resembles the things she doesn’t like.
 
Cozy, again, is the oddball because we have no idea about anything save her previous crime, but even then she can be reasoned with if one can prove a course of action to be to her benefit and provide her control of her life.
 
While they couldn’t actually go that in depth due to time constraints they could easily have alluded to it before the time skip and used the newspaper bit to add to it before having them shown in the final scenes as coexisting even if they don’t care or aren’t friends with the main caste.
nightshroud96
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@Background Pony #7D59  
Honestly for me, I think what would at least be better is just put the trio into Tartarus. That way is much better if the writers wanted to leave it in the air on if they reform or not.  
Tirek and Cozy Glow only got out due to Discord’s bullcrap. Just make it so not even Discord can pluck anyone out of there again(I mean, Celestia had a spell that kept Discord’s claws off of the Elements somehow) and add in even more measures and that would be it, no one would be breaking out of there.
Background Pony #7D59
I’m sorry, when so little effort is put into even holding the idiots they like accountable when they’ve succeeded a thousand times over where the three have failed
 
Just out of curiosity, how would you liked to have trio handled in finale, should they been granted mercy, put back into tartarus, put into rehabiliation program or be relead later from the statue?
Background Pony #986A
@Background Pony #6A69  
Aaannndd unlike chrysalis Dear goody goody soul starlight actually attempted to do it!!  
https://derpibooru.org/images/864802?sd=desc&sf=id&q=gritted+teeth%2C+starlight+glimmer
Background Pony #986A
@Background Pony #2DF7  
Ouch! Exposed XD  
gLiMeR iS iNNocEnT!
GrimChariot

@Background Pony #6A69  
That is not the “Gotcha!” You think it is.
Background Pony #6A69
full
GrimChariot

@Background Pony #6A69  
Tempest risked her life to save one nation, who then prevented anyone else from holding her accountable for literally destroying nations and suffering no consequences.
 
Scales aint balanced chief, seeing as those nations now need to rebuild and are dealing with massive amounts of traumatized citizens, some of whom are sold into slavery across the Storm Kings Empire.
 
Almost all of them had a case of not knowing exactly what the consequences of their actions are so thats not an excuse.
 
Discord willingly sided with Tirek and hurt thousands, then brought four of the most dangerous criminals, three of whom were contained and no longer a threat, together to endanger the entire nation and either A) sacrifice them for Twilights ego, or B) allowed one to be killed and torment the Crystal empire again, and broke how many laws to boost twilights ego.
 
I’m sorry, do you consider making a non issue a threat for one persons ego an acceptable risk for every other living member of your society? If so I sincerely hope you never have a high ranking military position as long as you live.
Background Pony #986A
@GrimChariot  
Exactly! TAHNK YOU!
Background Pony #6A69
@GrimChariot  
Ok for 1 tempest sacrificed her life, 2) discord doesn’t constantly put the country in danger for lulz. 3) what starlight did wasn’t on purpose
GrimChariot

@Background Pony #6A69  
Incarceration to the point of being legends thousands of years down the line while Tempest, an international war criminal with more successful deaths and destruction under her belt is given a free pass because she helped one (1) nation out if dozens she helped raze to the ground.
 
Discord routinely lapsing and putting the entire country in danger for amusement.
 
Starlight creating multiple timelines and ultimately destroying Equestria three times if not all six.
 
I’m sorry, when so little effort is put into even holding the idiots they like accountable when they’ve succeeded a thousand times over where the three have failed, it’s not “putting them in their place” to effectively torture them if they’re aware, or consign them to a dreamless sleep until the statues destroyed or left abandoned like the supposedly oh so valuable archives that Celestia has canonically let fall into such disrepair as to be useless.
 
Thats called bias and being a corrupt fool picking and choosing when the laws apply when it suits you.
Background Pony #6A69
@Background Pony #301A  
Its not unambiguously cruel to put beings in their place who have constantly tried to kill u, and even if u wanna say its cruel its not the same as evil. The trio being turned to stone isn’t factually unjustified its a mattter of opinion
Background Pony #301A
@Background Pony #6A69  
Way to prove my point. Starlight did indeed attempt to murder Twilight at least once while Discord literally brainwashed them into being different people and no, reformations were not overdone. Rushed reformations were the problem, which is something that could have been avoided with the trio based on Frenemies. There is no gas lighting or spoon feeding involved either, it simply tells the story of how they turned evil and shows that Twilight wants to reform them. And yes, them being turned to stone while they were utterly defenseless without so much as an attempt to rehabilitate them is indeed unambiguously cruel.
 
 
@Background Pony #2871  
Chrysalis is a ruler and perhaps the darkest character of the three so it does kind of make sense that she’d get the darkest backstory. Theres also the fact that she clearly wasn’t thinking straight after her defeat, otherwise she would have simply accepted Starlight’s offer and pretend to be redeemed only to strike again. And then we should assume that she would most certainly teach future generation of changelings about this even if for nothing else but to fuel their hatred for ponies, so its likely that they would already know. As for Equestria, how do you know that it hasn’t formed shortly after Grogar’s reign, or that Chrysalis would or wouldn’t be old enough to know about it? It is entirely possible that Chrysalis is actually older then Tirek.
 
As for her descent into immorality, who’s to say that this isn’t what caused it to start? Not every change of mind is caused gradually. Sometimes, all it takes is one bad experience. And heck, even here we already saw some of her future characteristics like how she joked about eventually draining the mercs before they even set foot in the hive or how she threatened one of the changelings that she would send him to the dragons.
 
And for that matter, why is it so bad to have ponies, especially ones who lived potentially thousends of years ago, to be bad? Not all of them have to be good guys, after all. They are a living, thinking civilization just like we are and as such can be prone to all the faults that come with it. And just because the ponies express pity at what happened to her doesn’t mean that they have to accept or apologize for her hurting those that weren’t even involved.
 
 
@DerpyFast  
There’s a difference between going on a dangerous journey and killing yourself. It is indeed, not suicide.
 
Just because characters can do bad things without past trauma doesn’t make past trauma’s impossible for others and in no way did this comic ever say that their past traumas are supposed to excuse the trio from their actions.
 
And yes, it takes time for characters to realize what they did was wrong and start to change but sometimes, like with Discord, those characters need help to get to that point and in this case, these flashbacks are giving the Main 6 something to start from when it comes to helping those three.
Background Pony #D8B8
@Background Pony #986A
 
Correct. And as we see here in this comic, friendship is as good as lies, betrayal, loss and traumatic experiences for Chrysalis - fear can be expressed through other emotions such as rage for example. She refused to accept friendship not because it was inferior to her, but because it had cost her everyone - she preferred to live all alone in strong isolation rather than hide in the audience, where she had to be socially active. When Discord / Grogar brought her in, she was on the verge of mental breakdown due to isolation. Highly unusual as she as a queen with infiltration abilities has developed very strong social skills which were used with great success to spread conflict among the ponies. And we know she likes to be a monster with no capacity for empathy with others. But deep down, Chrysalis has a vulnerability she will never admit, as seen when Tirek took her magic to open the portal to Grogar’s bell.
Background Pony #7D59
“Be there for you” in the context of “do what I say,” to satisfy her narcissistic ego (to see others as extensions of herself), not engage with her as an equal, in her experience.
 
Seems like a stretch. I would say in this instance it meant she missed them on some level.
 
She refused to become friends with the others in Frenemies not because she was scared of it, but because she hated the prospect of being anything like Twilight
 
Oh sure, but she was willing to work with others villains anyway and was even begging like to each other company later when they came to that stole book, so her refuse of friendship didn’t mattered that much.
Background Pony #2871
@Background Pony #986A  
“Be there for you” in the context of “do what I say,” to satisfy her narcissistic ego (to see others as extensions of herself), not engage with her as an equal, in her experience.
 
That’s still not evidence she’s afraid of friendship; she would’ve lost nothing and in fact only gained from befriending the others, to have indefinite allies, from an objective standpoint. Her very last words in the show were her being hatefully dismissive that friendship could ever save Twilight and the others, bloviating, instead of immediately fleeing in fear and terror recognizing that she and the others just lost horribly and they had to escape ASAP.
 
Fear is not something that strongly motivates Chrysalis in general.
 
I could claim Tirek fears friendship because he’d be making himself weak, and it has about as much of a basis in canon as that, but he doesn’t. His outward and internal attitude is pretty much like Chrysalis’: that it makes you weak, therefore he looks down on the weak beings who believe in it, and they just win because they’re lucky (Chrysalis just gets pissed off they “cheated”).
 
There’s just not, in my view, enough nonverbal cues and/or verbal dialogue to show that she’s “afraid” of friendship, when none of her actions seem to reflect it, and even if she did have fear of it (which wasn’t been properly established as existing as a primary or even secondary motivator [being nervous that the likes of Cozy or Tirek would backstab you isn’t irrational paranoia, and have nothing to do with her rejecting Starlight’s offer]), anger/hate/vengeance is a far stronger motivator than that for Chrysalis, and even before that, in her debut, it was her ambition and sadism driving her.
Background Pony #986A
For one, ask Thorax how free the changeling were. Secondly, I don’t think anypony asked the ponies if they wanted a change in leadership when Chrysalis took over Canterlot.
 
Like I said man the smirks don’t seem oppressed.  
And I never agreed that it was right to invade I said there were justifications.
Starswirl
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).
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The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Background Pony #986A  
For one, ask Thorax how free the changeling were. Secondly, I don’t think anypony asked the ponies if they wanted a change in leadership when Chrysalis took over Canterlot.
Background Pony #986A
@Background Pony #2871  
Do you really believe that chrysalis with her EGO would admit that she is afraid of friendship?  
In fact, we don’t even need that. She said she was happy that back at her hive she had others be there for her.  
She is afraid of friendship cause from her pov it took everything from her.
Background Pony #986A
power-hungry dictator
 
Last time I checked her changelings were smirking every time she enacted a plan…  
One power-hungry I will agree partially since justifications for that do exist..
Background Pony #2871
Chrysalis has been explained many times so everyone is aware of her shortcomings and personality, where she seemed to consider herself a monster who was seen to be afraid of friendship in the show
 
I don’t understand where “Chrysalis is afraid of friendship” comes from as a valid interpretation. She always seemed to react to it with dismissiveness, rage, and hate, not fear. She refused to become friends with the others in Frenemies not because she was scared of it, but because she hated the prospect of being anything like Twilight, one of her worst enemies, because the idea of it trampled on her pride, and so she dragged them away from letting friendship influence them.
 
There’s nothing about Chrysalis that comes across as resenting herself for any of her tendencies, as far as we see in the show, and anything in the (really dubiously) canon FIENDship comic that might indicate such wasn’t even her talking, and it was a ploy to manipulate Twilight and her friends’ sympathies so they could all escape.
Background Pony #D8B8
@DerpyFast  
I’ll make it clear; no one is born evil. We humans are known to be intolerant, short-sighted, selfish and impulsive at worst - but what made our civilization possible across these instincts that arose when our ancestors stole from each other, killed each other, abused each other and even eat each other - is greed, the very essence of humanity. Yet there are not many examples of people being monsters from the very beginning, that no one is truly evil, not even the worst we have had in our history, and these usually seemed to be mentally disturbed like the well-known serial killers in modern time. This is not seen in the MLP / Ponyverse, where they have very different instincts and seem to represent something unique individually as with the griffons, dragons and ponies. Nearly all the villains who had been seen in Season 1-7 have had a background that showed that they are not completely evil or could be rehabilitated.
 
The MLP ponies in both G1 and G4 have different moral standards from ours, for them the term “monster” is far more comprehensive and much less serious than in our world. Sombra was a true tyrant who proved to be very arrogant, ruthless and cold-blooded with no sense of ethics or morals. We never learned about his background in the show, only in the IDW comics, he was strangely given very little airing time in the various episodes. Chrysalis has been explained many times so everyone is aware of her shortcomings and personality, where she seemed to consider herself a monster who was seen to be afraid of friendship in the show. Tirek was no more than a greedy bully who steals magic in a selfish goal of proving himself and raising his self-esteem, but he behaved more like a stubborn warrior who could keep his word than like an abuser or criminal, he is far more a usurper than a monster. Cozy Glow is the biggest mystery in all of Ponyverse.
 
With the exception of Discord who is the very personality of chaos, all of these after all began as innocent individuals in their upbringing with experiences, inspirations and motives that put them on a course where they sooner or later face a choice to become a villain or not . The same rule, almost all well-known entertainment writers have addressed this. The IDW comics showed that Sombra was planted as an agent to take away the protection against his people, this came into doubt after Season 9 - while Chrysalis was reborn with her people through a mysterious process, but never explained how she had been convinced that she is nothing but a monster thirsting for power. Tirek got a much bigger background that showed what kind of father he had, confirmed in Season 9 when Discord revealed what motivated Tirek more than anything else (and risked his life).
 
Anyway, we rehabilitate our own monsters who have done worse things than these “monsters” had done in the MLP G4, on this I speak from a European perspective. We have a strong fascination for evil tyrants and fallen heroes as with “the Darth Vader syndrome”. Therefore, many are interesting in the worst villains in the G4, especially Chrysalis which is the opposite of Celestia.
 
The author of this fanon comic is not infallible, suicide rhetoric in Twilighet’s letter was unnecessary and excessive drama - a fimfiction writer does it differently with a fan fiction about just such a scenario. But the idea of ​​being able to analyze the terrible trio without releasing them is smart.