Maybe give them a year like this and come back and unstone them? Have someone adopt each one and attempt to reform? Obviously someone with enough power to contain them, and protected such that that power can’t be turned against the holder. Or maybe send them to a place that’s hours away from other civilization, requiring that they become productive citizens of a small community.
I believe Chrysalis can be reformed. Tirek is possible, if difficult. Cozy Glow is a true psychopath, knowing what is right or wrong but not caring. I honestly think she’s the Ted Bundy of Equestria.
A tactic that may be effective in these villains is for them to experience the pain that they have inflicted. Luna should be able to do this with her Dreamwalking, Discord can recreate reality and tailor environments to the needs of lessons…
Since we’re pulling Starlight into this conversation, I think Jean Luc-Picard’s words handle her situation: “We have no law to fit your crimes.”
@Beau Skunky
The difference is that Discord did those things despite being forgiven multiple times and appearently reformed already. He was also the one who suggested stoning the trio. Now, I for one liked the idea of reforming him, but not offering/attempting the same for those three when he got away with so much is simply unfair and hypocritical.
Peaple say that the trio knew what they were doing and that they should suffer the consequences of their actions. If that were the case, then so should Discord. As it stands, I very much believe that they deserve a second chance and the proper help to make use of it. They did not deserve such a cruel fate.
He’s the least redeemable, but he’s not unforgivable, as his power makes him uniquely suited to fixing the things he’s done with literal real effort.
The fact he rarely if ever does is itself a problem but thats the point of redemption. He doesn’t get a clean slate, people don’t forget, but he’s forgiven. Anything he does after that will be judged past, and previous action can be used to direct him to where he failed, and if needed reinforce his good behavior by actively curbing his bad behavior(which no one does when it counts).
And while this isn’t another betrayal there is a point were you must hold one accountable, rather then treating them with a slap on the wrist because you’re a friend.
By and large I don’t think any character is irredeemable because the entire premise of that is a removal of free will. Absolute good and absolute evil can’t be mortal-life it self doesn’t present a black and white series of events to allow it.
But there is a point were trust and loyalty-no matter how hard earned-are no longer able to be called upon.
And intentions don’t carry much weight when the actions don’t lead the same way. It’s why I couldn’t bring myself to trust Celestia as a character in any context, she’s simply proven herself to willing to put people at risk for her goals-most of which are for the longterm betterment of her people, yes, but could also be done with less selfish, shortsighted means with minimal effort on her part as a ruler.
@GrimChariot
Not really, as the Tirek event was different, and this wasn’t technically another “betrayal.”
Also, if you feel the trio’ isn’t unforgivable, (whom are also guilty of betrayal, and such) then I say neither is Discord for releasing them. (Without ill intentions, as odd as that is, but he is Discord, after all, and not perfect.)
@Beau Skunky
Discord is also far more powerful, and caused the entire event.
While he had to work to get to where he was he’s also responsible for all of it, and anyone else wouldn’t have gotten off as easy-or had their power handed back to them on a silver platter.
Then take into account this isn’t the first or even second time this has happened and it starts becoming less earned and more given away.
@Harshie83
Thats honestly my biggest gripe. If Discord was stoned with them I’d dislike it but it would be acceptable.
I’d rather they be “redeemed” because at the least their actions had more back bone then Discord, who’s basically a cosmic backyard bully who hurt people for nothing but amusement.
You could easily redirect the three into doing things better with a bit of psychological effort but they didn’t have time. Which is where that newspaper gag at the end could’ve tentatively been used to allude to a successful redemption without them being on screen and using the previous cut away as a cliff hanger.
As @Background Pony #B6CA said it’s a cheap way to execute the three, and with Discord being the overall instigator and the one responsible for even telling them the bell existed, it makes the moral less Friendship is Magic and more Friends in High places will let you do anything.
@Harshie83 @Background Pony #B6CA
Granted, Discord didn’t get off completely free, he lost his powers, had to make an exhausting off-screen journey on foot, got called out on it, got captured by the baddies twice, and he did redeem himself by helping save the gang. (Including risking his own life, something many forget he did, when they try to paint him as “unforgiveable”)
He also didn’t intend for any of this to happen in the first place. (And the trio still did bad things by their own choice.) In a way it does give his character closure, and ensures he’ll never try to control events like this again to build up Twilight’s self esteem, or test her. Discord like any main character is still learning.
I think it’s odd, many of the same people whom want the trio’ to be forgiven, and get off free, also want Discord severely punished, or worse. It kinda contradicts their “Everyone deserves a chance to redeem themselves/anyone can be reformed” argument, and such.
I think the main reason this part rubs people the wrong way is because it felt like they were telling a different story, but then tried to surprise us with an idiotic twist. We also spent a lot of time with the three, and took a liking to them. It really felt like they were going to reform them, but more gradually, instead of it feeling like someone flicked a switch, like the other reformations.
But on a meta level, I think part of the reason this rubbed people the wrong way is because it felt very much like a G-rated execution. Capital punishment has become an increasingly controversial topic. Add in the fact that this was done to a child, in an age where children in the prison system has become more common. Add then the instigator of all this was spared because he said sorry and happened to be friends with the rulers. This, in a time where nepotism in politics and the courts is becoming more and more of a problem.
Whether they meant to or not, this scene could be perceived as a political statement, on a show meant to teach moral values to young children. You can understand, I think, why a number of people would find this finale problematic.
@Beau Skunky
Everyone on this thread should hear these words, my friend. So what if they didn’t want to reform these three?! And to those of you saying that Cozy shouldn’t be here; bear in mind that she was FULLY AWARE that what she was doing was evil and wrong, but simply didn’t give a crap……
@Iron Storm
I’m sure Cozy will be fine when she escapes in several 1000 years. (That’d be a good fanfic, “Cozy’s Revenge!”)
@GrimChariot
You could filter some of the other above tags you don’t like. I admit, this does seem like intentional drama bait, no matter what your opinions on the finale are.
Well, there’s nothing we can do to change what happened, and even if they were reformed I’m sure half the fanbase would be angry they “got off too easily,” or something instead. (Heck, some say that already of characters that were reformed.)
Let’s not forget how happy people were when Chrysalis turned Starlight’s offer of redemption down, and all the drama over the other Changelings reforming, and such. Either way, people would be upset.
@Twilight_Shimmer
Considering you could capture them, as they were depowered and had no immediate means of escape…
You could capture them and actually put forth an ounce of effort.
If you tell me with a straight face Equestria has no means to prevent Tirek and Chrysalis from using magic I’m going to ask what the hell they were doing with Unicorns and what lazy fool was in charge for the last 1000+ years
I have said this before and I will say it again. I feel had Discord played things a bit slower then he had, and sent then on other “missions” instead of right away sending them after the bell, the trio MIGHT have genuinely became friends and maybe JUST MAYBE admitted “Hey maybe ponies do have it right after all”
As to the stoning of the trio. I have also said this before. What other choice was there? Let’s go back to Tirek’s inital escape many seasons ago. He if I recall correctly did so with no outside help proving Tartarus is not the end all be all holding cell. Sure they could have been sent there anyways but this would not guarantee they could not escape.
Now as to Chrissy, I agree with what many have said she was VERY close to admitting friendship and it is something I wish had happened as she’s quite possibly one of my favorite baddies in the series and yet I also feel a bit of sympathy for her.
And finally we come to Cozy Glow. I still stand by what I have said many times regarding her. There is no easy way to deal with her. Yes she is a child but she is also literally Insanely smart and not once but TWICE nearly managed to destroy the world, the first when she sought out advice from Tirek and nearly removed magic from the entire world. and the second when she teamed up with the aforementioned baddies above. This was not something you could just give a slap on the hoof too and let it go, and true they probably could have locked her in a psychward, but if she can lie well enough to fool AJ the element of honesty, playing along with a doc and acting like she was co-operating would be literal childs play
They were offered a chance and actively had people work for and with them on it.
These three? Nope. And when Harmony itself is fine with letting them go Celestia, Luna and Discord are arrogant as hell for assuming they have the right to go above the thing thats the reason their alive.
Frankly being willing to change doesn’t alter Tempests case. She’s a war criminal- Equestria has no right to keep her from judgement by the rest of the people she helped hurt.
Starlight basically had the fabric of reality bent over for her.
Effort makes the difference, and frankly no one put forth an ounce for these three.
