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Alphamon_Ouryuken
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Lord of the Empty Seat
@SSJGPiccles  
She clearly doesn’t understand friendship and they did nothing to help her.
 
They brought her into their school and tried to teach her everything they know, so I’d say they did everything to help her. It’s not that she didn’t understand, is that she didn’t want to.
 
Why should Tirek not take their magic? Scorpan made a friend, not him. He doesn’t owe them anything.
 
I refer you to my previous question, why should the ponies have let him take their magic? It’s their livelihood. He has no right to be angry for being punished for invading their land.
 
Cozy never actually made any friends because it was all an act.
What don’t you get about how meaningless the school was when none of it was genuine or real?
 
If she was faking it the first time, then why shouldn’t they believe that she was going to fake it again? She already admitted she was going to before they stopped her.
 
They should be given the benefit of the doubt because it’s the right thing to do. It’s literally the name of the show. Friendship is magic. It’s not clear they’re never going to change. No one’s ever even tried to change them.
 
It’s clear they’re never going to change because they don’t want to change. If they did then they would have at the very least made an attempt after their solo episode. But they didn’t.
 
They gave no one reason to believe they could change, so they were given punishment.
 
And where is Cozy and Tirek’s legitimate friendship? Who has ever offered to legitimately get to know who they really are and accept them for that?
 
Cozy had the school, the CMC, and the Student six, if that’s not enough for her, then she’s just selfish.
 
Tirek drove oylthers away, so he only has himself to blame.
 
Cozy Glow getting rid of magic to even the playing field is not worse than that.
 
It was still wrong of her to do it, she wasn’t evening the playing field, she was just stealing at all so she’d be more powerful than anyone else.
 
Again, why do Cozy and Tirek not get the same.
 
Because they proved that they didn’t want to change, they wanted to use those for their own gain and then possible toss them when they outlived their usefulness.
 
They deserved it.
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SunlightDrifter

@Alphamon_Ouryuken
 
 
They asked her why she betrayed them, her answer was just because she wanted power and nothing more and planned on doing the same thing somewhere else then she failed.
 
And then they did nothing to help her or find out why she wants this so badly. Yeah, I know.
 
She clearly doesn’t understand friendship and they did nothing to help her.
 
He could have at the very least try to hearing his brother out. Why should the ponies just roll over and let him take their magic? They don’t owe him anything.
 
Why should Tirek not take their magic? Scorpan made a friend, not him. He doesn’t owe them anything.
 
If you want someone to change you have to actually give them a reason to do it. That’s how it works.
 
 
They were offered friendship from the start, they were ejected and tried to Rob individuals of their livelihood just because they wanted more power. Give me one reason why they should have been given the benefit of the doubt if they made it clear they were never going to change?
 
Tirek wasn’t offered anything. Scorpan said don’t do it, Tirek said no to that. Then sent to hell.
 
Cozy never actually made any friends because it was all an act.
 
What don’t you get about how meaningless the school was when none of it was genuine or real?
 
They should be given the benefit of the doubt because it’s the right thing to do. It’s literally the name of the show. Friendship is magic. It’s not clear they’re never going to change. No one’s ever even tried to change them.
 
Frenemies blatantly showed friendship can change them. If not for Chrysalis and Discord.
 
Hr changed because Fluttershy actually gave him legitimate friendship and actually showed remorse when it was taken away from him because of his own action.
 
And where is Cozy and Tirek’s legitimate friendship? Who has ever offered to legitimately get to know who they really are and accept them for that?
 
Tirek’s whole deal is that his father never accepted him. There’s absolutely no way a real friend would have no effect on him.  
Cozy has no family or friends and lives her whole life putting on an act. If any pony could use a real friend, it’s her.  
The closest they’ve ever come is each other, but you’re not going to become a better person when only other evil people are willing to become your friend, and Discord’s setting them up to fail.
 
 
If she’s just going to use others for her own gain as a means to an end just because he wanted power for power’s sake, then yes. Especially since she was going to sell out her entire race for more power.
 
Like that’s somehow worse than using the world for sick entertainment? You do realize Discord made life an unending misery, right? For centuries on end. For fun.
 
Cozy Glow getting rid of magic to even the playing field is not worse than that.
 
 
She was given a gesture of Goodwill and friendship when she was accepted into the school. She was given another gesture when they asked her why she would betray them, as if they were trying to have the very least level with her in some way. She’s the one who threw it all back in their face and stabbed them in the back when it was most convenient for her.
 
Getting let into a school is not a grand life-changing gesture. It’s just an education.
 
If Twilight asking Cozy why she did what she did was anything, she would have actually tried to help her understand what she clearly didn’t. Twilight got an answer, and then she let Cozy get locked away forever.
 
Good will? In what universe is getting sent to hell good will?
 
They forced redemption on Discord despite him not showing an ounce of regret or remorse.  
Again, why do Cozy and Tirek not get the same.
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Alphamon_Ouryuken
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Lord of the Empty Seat
@SSJGPiccles  
@Alphamon_Ouryuken
What does ANY of that matter if it was all fake? Of course Cozy turned on them. That’s the entire reason she was there. Did anyone ever wonder WHY? No, straight to Tarturus for all eternity.
 
They asked her why she betrayed them, her answer was just because she wanted power and nothing more and planned on doing the same thing somewhere else then she failed.
 
Same with Tirek. Why should he care Scorpan made a friend? Why should he change? Why does he even want to do this? Who cares. Go to Tarturus and come back in millennia far worse than you were when we sent you in.
 
He could have at the very least try to hearing his brother out. Why should the ponies just roll over and let him take their magic? They don’t owe him anything.
 
Name ONE reason they should change? No one’s offered them anything, and they’ve been sent to fate’s worse than death forever.
 
They were offered friendship from the start, they were ejected and tried to Rob individuals of their livelihood just because they wanted more power. Give me one reason why they should have been given the benefit of the doubt if they made it clear they were never going to change?
 
He changed because Fluttershy gave him something he wanted, and toolkit away.
 
Hr changed because Fluttershy actually gave him legitimate friendship and actually showed remorse when it was taken away from him because of his own action.
 
But Cozy Glow is irredeemable because she wanted to have more power for reasons we don’t know?
 
If she’s just going to use others for her own gain as a means to an end just because he wanted power for power’s sake, then yes. Especially since she was going to sell out her entire race for more power.
 
She doesn’t deserve even one of the countless chances Dicord got? Not a single gesture of goodwill and friendship?
That is just an absolute load and complete hypocrisy.
 
She was given a gesture of Goodwill and friendship when she was accepted into the school. She was given another gesture when they asked her why she would betray them, as if they were trying to have the very least level with her in some way. She’s the one who threw it all back in their face and stabbed them in the back when it was most convenient for her.
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SunlightDrifter

@Alphamon_Ouryuken  
What does ANY of that matter if it was all fake? Of course Cozy turned on them. That’s the entire reason she was there. Did anyone ever wonder WHY? No, straight to Tarturus for all eternity.
 
Same with Tirek. Why should he care Scorpan made a friend? Why should he change? Why does he even want to do this? Who cares. Go to Tarturus and come back in millennia far worse than you were when we sent you in.
 
Name ONE reason they should change? No one’s offered them anything, and they’ve been sent to fate’s worse than death forever.
 
Discord has caused countless suffering for millennia all for his own amusement. He’s turned the world into his own personal amusement park and destroyed the natural order. Planted seeds to destroy the Tree of Harmony and trap Celestia and Luna forever. He made everyone miserable because it was fun for him. Literally HALF of everything that goes wrong in Equestria is his fault.
 
Did he ever ONCE show remorse for centuries of torturing innocent ponies? No, not once. Did he ever ONCE show interest in becoming a better person? Still no.
 
He changed because Fluttershy gave him something he wanted, and toolkit away.
 
But Cozy Glow is irredeemable because she wanted to have more power for reasons we don’t know? That one action trumps Discords MILLENIA of being the absolute worst because he thought it was fun?
 
She doesn’t deserve even one of the countless chances Dicord got? Not a single gesture of goodwill and friendship?
 
That is just an absolute load and complete hypocrisy.
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Alphamon_Ouryuken
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Lord of the Empty Seat
@SSJGPiccles  
Cozy was taken into the school, shown kindness, and was practically adored by everyone. Yet she still turned on them.
 
Chrysalis was shown how much more beneficial it was for the changelings if they took the peaceful route since they were no longer endlessly hungry. Yet she wanted to go back to the old ways.
 
Tirek’s brother shared his experiences with the ponies with his brother and tried to get him to change his mind about draining them, and he said no. Even if he was thrown in Tartarus, he had only himself to blame for that. Why should they have given him a chance if he was more than willing to stick to his all the evil ways and seek vengeance just because they defended their home?
 
They were given reasons to change their way, they just didn’t want to.
 
Cozy pretty much proved she was irredeemable after nearly robbing all of Equestria of their livelihood just for more power. The fact that she was faking it and pretending to be nice just makes it worse since she took advantage of them even though they were nothing but kind to her.
 
Discord showing remorse over loosing his friendship with Fluttershy was in fact showing that he was actually willing to put some effort into reforming. As well as having some empathy.
 
Cozy and Tirek had their chances, but they chose to remain evil just because they didn’t want to change.
 
You seem to be missing the point. Just because Reformation is an option doesn’t automatically mean that everyone’s going to take it, and these three are prime examples of that, they were just too stuck in their own ways to even want to change even when given the chance.
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SunlightDrifter

@Alphamon_Ouryuken  
You’re missing the point. I’m not saying they weren’t evil. They obviously wouldn’t be in need of redemption if they weren’t.
 
That doesn’t mean they’ve been given any reason to change their ways or anyone has ever legitimately tried to help or understand them from a place of authenticity.
 
Saying Cozy Glow had a chance in the school of friendship makes no sense because it was all fake. Cozy had no intention of trying to learn anything from them and they were teaching someone who basically didn’t exist. It was all meaningless, and there’s no reason that should for whatever reason count as Cozy Glow’s one and only chance or excuse Twilight and the rest for completely giving up on her. Nor does it somehow make Cozy irredeemable.
 
Both she and Tirek were just immediately thrown away and forgotten at the first opportunity. If you expect anything to happen aside from them just becoming worse, you’ve got only yourself to blame. Of course Tirek didn’t change after all that time.
 
And no, Discord did not put effort into reforming. He was rotten to the core until Fluttershy hooked him on friendship and threatened to take it away if he didn’t behave.
 
Meanwhile Tirek and Cozy have never even had the option to reform. Straight to Tartarus or straight to stone.
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Alphamon_Ouryuken
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Lord of the Empty Seat
@SSJGPiccles  
Cozy using their own friendship to betray them was a hard blow, not to mention openly admitting she was going to continue her same scheme somewhere else until they stopped her. You don’t get to complain about them “not knowing her” when she went out of her way to make sure they didn’t know her personally.
 
As for Tirek getting banished? He was about to drain all the Equestria of their livelihood just because he wanted more power. By that point he made it clear that he had no intention of trying things peacefully.
 
 
@Background Pony #A139  
Starlight and Discord at least put SOME effort into reforming. The evil trio had their chances to change yet rejected it outright because they didn’t WANT to change. Chrysalis was more satisfied being a tyrant, Tirek wanted power for power’s sake, and Cozy just pretended to care about friendship to use everyone as a means to an end.
 
Not to mention that little speech about never changing and returning for more Revenge after they were beaten in the finale. They pretty much asked for it.
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Background Pony #CB3F
@Alphamon_Ouryuken  
That wasn’t exactly a second chance. Starlight got her chance when Twilight and her friends came to the villaige and instead of trying to prove her ideoligy wrong she streight up stole their cutie marks and locked them up in a house and when her villaigers turned on her she attacked them and there was no long term attempt to make Chrysalis see better. They just gave up on her after one tiny chance she almost took.
 
Discord only got that far after much effort from Fluttershy. He openly mocked her attempts when he was released and even after all that he betrayed the ponies and sided with Tirek and caused trouble even after that.
 
No, they did not have a chance to change, not like previously reformed villains. How do you expect them to put in that effort if they don’t get the same effort into trying to reform them? I say again, they deserved better.
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SunlightDrifter

@Alphamon_Ouryuken  
And while we’re at it, Discord was a complete remorseless prick for millennia and never once showed a hint of empathy or desire to change.
 
Yet they went completely out of their way to reform him and have given him countless second chances.
 
Why do Tirek and Cozy Glow not get the same courtesy?
 
ESPECIALLY Cozy Glow, because Discord is way worse than her in literally every conceivable way.
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SunlightDrifter

@Alphamon_Ouryuken  
That was centuries ago and didn’t actually give Tirek any reason to change. From Tirek’s perspective, Scorpan backed out on something they both agreed to because he made a friend. That doesn’t actually have anything to do with Tirek or give him any reason not to do what he was going to do. Then Scorpan switched and got him imprisoned for eternity.
 
Where is Tirek’s reason to change in all that?
 
Cozy Glow was faking the entire time. They never even really knew her. Then once Cozy was found out, it was straight to hell. No questions, no trying to reason with her. NOTHING.
 
At no point has a genuine effort ever been made for either of them. At best, Tirek’s brother tried to talk him down a long time ago for his own benefit. Certainly not by the ponies who are supposed to be all about friendship.
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Alphamon_Ouryuken
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Lord of the Empty Seat
@SSJGPiccles  
That’s false, Starswirl helped Scorpan and his brother openly fried to convince him to change his ways, and he refused and had the audacity to call his brother worthless for siding with them.
 
Cozy was reached out to by the CMC and willingly accepted into the school by Twilight, that’s more than enough we eating out. And yet she double-crossed them anyway just because she wanted power for powers sake.
 
 
@Background Pony #A139
 
Cozy was given a chance by being let into the school. Chrysalis made it clear that she didn’t care if there was a different way to receive love, she simply wanted to drain everyone because that was the way she liked doing it.
 
Discord willingly change even though Fluttershy agreed not to use the elements on him.
 
So yes, they did have a chance to change, the differences that they didn’t put in the effort into changing themselves. They wanted to stay evil and paid the price for it.
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Background Pony #CB3F
@Alphamon_Ouryuken  
No one knew of Cozy’s intentions and Cozy was too busy plotting to actually make friends so she was never given a chance. Not like Discord and Starlight at least. Chrysalis was only given one chance after losing everything and everyone pretty much gave up on her and let her fly off afterwards. Discord would have also rejected it had the Main 6 not have the elements. Speaking of Discord, he also had years to reflect in his own prison yet that didn’t change him either. And Frenemies showed how they could change if some time and effort was spared on them and not the manipulation Discord did.
 
They did not have the chance to change, not like Discord and Starlight did. No effort was placed into trying to reform them and they deserved better.
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SunlightDrifter

@Alphamon_Ouryuken  
Neither did Discord. Yet they practically forced redemption on him.
 
Cozy and Tirek got the worst punishments Equestria had to dish out every time they did something bad. Why would they want to change? Nobody ever reached out to either of them. Tried to understand them or show them WHY they should change.
 
Why are Cozy and Tirek irredeemable beyond the fact that no one ever even gave them a chance? The only difference between them and characters like Discord, Sunset, and Starlight is that no one ever even tried to help them.
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Alphamon_Ouryuken
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Lord of the Empty Seat
@Background Pony #A139  
Cozy had plenty of chances at the school and choose to go bad, Chrysalis was given the choice to become good by Starlight and she refused, Tirek had years in Tartarus to reflect on his actions and STILL stayed evil. They all had a chance to change in “Frienemies” but refused.
 
They had the chance to change, they just didn’t because they wanted to stay evil
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Background Pony #CB3F
@Alphamon_Ouryuken  
They never tried because they weren’t given the same chances the others got.
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Alphamon_Ouryuken
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Lord of the Empty Seat
@SSJGPiccles  
They never TRIED to change. They had their own opportunities yet refused to change. Cozy especially since the ponies we’re nothing but kind to her and betrayed them willingly.
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SunlightDrifter

@Alphamon_Ouryuken  
You can’t refuse something that was never offered.
 
How do you know Cozy and Tirek are irredeemable? No one ever tried to change them.
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Alphamon_Ouryuken
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Lord of the Empty Seat
They’re the ones who refused to change, some villains are just irredeemable.
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Background Pony #8E56
HOLOCAUST TO FLUTTERSHY
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Background Pony #6B4B
@Pone 2.0  
And they never should have been the final bad guys.
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Coltfan97

@PikaRobo  
Probably after the Mane Six left, things go not a smooth.
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PikaRobo
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Where did it go so wrong?
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Dogman15
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@DR CHRISMAN  
I’m not sure what to say without knowing more details.
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DR CHRISMAN
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A source on here who talked to them
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asdtroi
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@A Gruntman  
But then his entire relationship with Fluttershy is based on Celestia thinking that he could be usefull. He was deemed worthy to befriend and reform because he’s powerfull. By that logic Cozy was right, friendship is power.
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