genervt

DUSTY IS BEST CAPTAIN

@Jarkes
Then it would have been her duty to correct Dustys behaviour early instead of reinforcing it with her praise.
She as her trainer would have let her to walk right into a trap.

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Jarkes

GOKAAAAI... SILVER!

@genervt

Should clarify: she would’ve been testing BOTH of them.

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genervt

DUSTY IS BEST CAPTAIN

@cloudkicker108
Of course it was a training session.
It was part of their TRAINING.

Dusty was overambitious and wanted to increase their lead to be even more impressive.
She just got carried away with her methods.

And I already proved that the airspace was restricted.
No guests during training.

Being one of Spitfires top cadets and being praised and commended all the time only to be suddenly publicly shamed, humiliated and expelled without any warning or mercy is certainly cruel.

@Jarkes
In that case Spitfire would have set Dusty up for failure intentionally.
I think that would be even worse.

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Jarkes

GOKAAAAI... SILVER!

ANYWAY, on the topic of the actual image…

This is really funny.

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Jarkes

GOKAAAAI... SILVER!

@cloudkicker108

Yeah, Spitfire really should have just handled it privately.

I’ve seen an interesting argument that Spitfire was pretty much testing Rainbow Dash. After all, a wingpony should call out their leader if they think they’re doing something dangerous.

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cloudkicker108

かたわれ時

@genervt
It wasn’t an official Wonderbolt training session. It was an outdoor exercise for the cadets.

Except at that point LD didn’t even need the tornado to impress Spitfire. They were already way ahead of all the other teams. That and the inherent dangers of a tornado were clear as day to everyone.

And we’ve already explained to you many times why the academy is not restricted airspace.

I won’t deny it would have been more professional for Spitfire to call LD into her office, but there’s nothing cruel about the way she reprimanded LD in the episode.

@Background Pony #087D
Exactly.

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genervt

DUSTY IS BEST CAPTAIN

@Background Pony #087D
Spitfire herselves said that guests are not allowed during training.
And if she gave them permission it would have been her duty to inform her cadets about that.
Dusty and Dashie were not informed about a balloon.

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Background Pony #768E

@genervt
Then the twister went off grounds and almost killed civilians. If it is indeed restricted, which makes sense, they would have been stopped by some guard. They werent. Ergo, the twister did endanger the lives of innocent civilians. It is either the twister went off grounds, or they were allowed on grounds. Either way, the twister endangered the lives of innocent ponies.

They wouldn’t have intentionally broken the rules, either. Twi, flutters and apples do not seem like the type to just break rules willy nilly. They’d probably leave a message or letter or something when confronted. Also they couldn’t break the rules, because the guard would have stopped them from going further. Furthermore, sneaking onto a base is really hard in a big hot air ballooon.

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genervt

DUSTY IS BEST CAPTAIN

@cloudkicker108
But it obviously was a training session.

The tornado was an accident and mistake made by an inexperienced overambitious cadet who tried to impress her superior.
Of course it should be made sure that it won´t repeat itself but that is no reason to put Dusty on the pranger and kick her out.

I already said many times that Dusty made mistakes yet you seem to ignore that.
And you pretend that violating airspace would be irrelevant.
It is not.

Expelling Dusty without any warning or a chance to explain herself for her first offence is excessive.
Doing it in front of the whole academy while it could have been in in private in Spitfires bureau is needlessly cruel and humiliating.

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cloudkicker108

かたわれ時

@genervt
That just means guests aren’t allowed into training sessions. It doesn’t indicate civilians can’t enter the academy at all.

@genervt
That’s the thing; the tornado was simply too inherently unwieldy and unstable to have worked at all–at least just with the two them. Something was bound to go wrong. Even if we don’t consider the mane six, the tornado still destroyed academy property and nearly killed an instructor.

@genervt
You might not directly say it, but you certainly imply that with your arguments. Any responsibility that can be placed on LD you’ve either pushed onto other characters or have tried talk down into something that can be hand-waved away.

Also, how does punishing LD on the spot–which just happens to be in front of the other cadets–constitute humiliation? She already thoroughly embarrassed herself with the tornado mishap.

@Jarkes
THANK YOU. That exactly what I’ve been trying to convey to him; Lighting made mistakes and faced the consequences. Period. No one is trying to villainize her here.

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genervt

DUSTY IS BEST CAPTAIN

@Jarkes
Who said she was blameless?
The problem is that she was punished excessively for her first offence, publicly humiliated and denied any chance to redeem and better herself.
Yes, that WAS cruel.

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Jarkes

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@genervt

Okay, I think Lightning got a bit of a raw deal and that she has potential to become better if she got her head out of her ass, but please for the love of god stop acting like she’s a blameless, innocent angel who did nothing wrong and was cruelly treated by evil evil Spitfire.

She fucked up, and was punished for it. End of story.

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genervt

DUSTY IS BEST CAPTAIN

@cloudkicker108
And if the tornado had worked she would praise Dusty in the highest tones.

Maybe some additional labour, but certainly not public humiliation and immediately expulsion.
There is simply no excuse for such a beyond excessive punishment.

And I´m neither delusional or ignorant.
With some additional training and some strict conditions Dusty would have learned to work in a team.
She clearly looked up to Spitfire at that time and would have listened to her.
But of course Spitfire could not be bothered to do her job.
It was the first but not the last time she proved her incompetence.

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genervt

DUSTY IS BEST CAPTAIN

@Background Pony #087D

@genervt

From Parental Glideance:

Spitfire: Okay. Which pony broke protocol and invited guests to our training exercises?!

Of course it is ok to ignore that rule when you are one of the Mane 6.

I conclude that guests are not allowed during training.
Which is only logical.

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cloudkicker108

かたわれ時

@genervt
One, Spitfire was unaware of the full context when she first heard about the tornado–she didn’t hesitate to take action when the entire situation became clear to her. And two, even she admitted the tornado was excessive.

Mane 6 aside, the tornado also nearly swallowed up the on site instructor. For that alone I’m pretty sure Lightning would not be getting off with a simple warning.

It’s one thing to defend LD, but to believe she would actually become a “model Wonderbolt” had the tornado incident not occurred is downright delusional or ignorant. Spitfire didn’t teach her to be egocentric or indifferent towards others; that’s just a part of who she is. And those are not kinds of qualities one expects in a Wonderbolt.

@Background Pony #087D

@genervt
Still, if they were on restricted airspace, then they would have been told to leave by some guardspony. So either they had access, or the tornado went off of the restricted airspace, thus endangering innocent civilians. There was no guard pony, or any pony, that told them to halt when they were going to see their friend. If they are military, then think of this as a military base. You do not get onto a military base if you do not pass the checkpoint/inspection.

Exactly. There is no evidence in the show that the Wonderbolt Academy is considered restricted airspace.

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Background Pony #768E

@genervt
Still, if they were on restricted airspace, then they would have been told to leave by some guardspony. So either they had access, or the tornado went off of the restricted airspace, thus endangering innocent civilians. There was no guard pony, or any pony, that told them to halt when they were going to see their friend. If they are military, then think of this as a military base. You do not get onto a military base if you do not pass the checkpoint/inspection.

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genervt

DUSTY IS BEST CAPTAIN

@cloudkicker108
We must not forget that Spitfire had no problem with the idea of using a tornado.
Dusty is not the ony one who made poor decision.

And if the Mane 6 hadn´t violated the airspace at the worst possible time Dusty would be reprimanded at worst and simply get the order to be more careful from now on.

If it weren´t for the Mane 6 Dusty might be a Model Wonderbolt by now.

I must wonder how many gifted fliers with incredible potential Spitfire already waisted.
At least three.

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cloudkicker108

かたわれ時

@genervt
Even though LD didn’t intend to endanger anyone with the tornado, the fact she decided to use such an extreme method still highlights her poor decision making skills, most notably her failure to take anyone else but herself into consideration. That’s not something you can just walk away from. Violating airspace ultimately becomes irrelevant because of the inherent danger and instability associated with the tornado. Regardless of exactly who was present, someone was bound to get hurt. If not Twilight and her friends in the balloon, then the other cadets in the air. Or anyone inside the academy at the time.

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genervt

DUSTY IS BEST CAPTAIN

@cloudkicker108
An unfortunate accident.
Violating airspace is never irrelevant.
And Dusty still could not know about the balloon.

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cloudkicker108

かたわれ時

@Background Pony #087D
Technically Twilight wasn’t an alicorn yet in “Wonderbolts Academy”. But you do bring up some other good points.

@genervt
She might not have been a full-fledged princess yet, but Twilight and her friends were already Equestrian heroes several times over by that point, not to mention highly respected by all the top brass in the kingdom, including Celestia. Like BP said, they have already proven themselves to be much more than average civilians.

Ultimately whether or not Twilight and her friends were violating airspace is irrelevant. The fact remains that LD used a completely overkill technique that would have been a clear danger to everyone on site.

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genervt

DUSTY IS BEST CAPTAIN

@Background Pony #087D
She was not a princess at that point.
And if there was an official visit it would have been Spitfires duty to inform her cadets about that.
Nopony informed Dusty about a balloon.

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Background Pony #768E

@Brony_Conundrum
Except that twi is a princess. You know, that race/position that governs the entire nation? I would imagine that the pony equivalent of the joint chief of staff would have unrestricted access to places like this(especially if he had business there). A princess would be no different. Also, they could declare their visit “official business” for the most bullshit of reasons because they govern and make the rules.

Point is, twi would be able to give herself access due to her position. Also, if it is like the military, then civilians would be stopped by a guard or something before getting near the grounds, and would require a pass or something before being able to go further. Similar to the royal guards restricting access near celestia(look up a bird in the hoof).

Furthermore, twi and her friends are equestrian heros. I do not know what all that entails as to their privilages, but it could be possible that they do have some honorary privilages. At this point, they are (at the very least in one case) different from mere civilians.

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genervt

DUSTY IS BEST CAPTAIN

From Parental Glideance:

Spitfire: Okay. Which pony broke protocol and invited guests to our training exercises?!

Of course it is ok to ignore that rule when you are one of the Mane 6.

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cloudkicker108

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@Brony_Conundrum
Only because Spitfire was never aware Lightning Dust was directly responsible for all the mishaps. The LD she saw was the one setting records all over the place. When Spitfire did finally realize all the trouble Dust had been causing, she didn’t hesitate to take disciplinary action against her most prized cadet.

@Brony_Conundrum
When was the Academy restricted airspace? That’s never been stated at any point in the show. Not to mention Pinkie came and went as she pleased in “Secrets and Pies”. Heck, even when she obstructed the runway and was consequently struck by two pegasi, not one pony called her out for trespassing.

@Tavi959

@Brony_Conundrum
Since when was the Wonderbolts’ training facility restricted airspace? Far as I know, that was never mentioned.

And you conveniently don’t acknowledge that creating a tornado was a danger to everyone on site once it broke containment, regardless of the unexpected presence of civilians.

What they did was the equivalent of shooting a Davy Crockett recoilless launcher while at a firing range. And while it’s easy to blame Rainbow Dash for going along with it, it was Lightning Dust’s idea and she insisted it’d be fine. She was as wrong as the United States was about the Davy Crockett; a stupid idea capable of self-destruction is still stupid if someone says it’s not.

Exactly.

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Tavi959

Warning: Nuts Inside

@Brony_Conundrum
Since when was the Wonderbolts’ training facility restricted airspace? Far as I know, that was never mentioned.

And you conveniently don’t acknowledge that creating a tornado was a danger to everyone on site once it broke containment, regardless of the unexpected presence of civilians.

What they did was the equivalent of shooting a Davy Crockett recoilless launcher while at a firing range. And while it’s easy to blame Rainbow Dash for going along with it, it was Lightning Dust’s idea and she insisted it’d be fine. She was as wrong as the United States was about the Davy Crockett; a stupid idea capable of self-destruction is still stupid if someone says it’s not.

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