DrEraser

@Beau Skunky
Imagine if you were browsing pictures of Scootaloo, and several of them had her flying under her own power, with no devices. And when you read the comments on one, someone commented, "I liked her better flightless."

Some people take disability representation a lot farther than expected, hoping and wishing that disabled characters never get better, and in some cases, don't find workarounds. It adds to the drama to have outliers whose skills are either worse (Scootaloo) or better (S1 Twilight) than their peers. But how horrible would Scootaloo feel if Apple Bloom muttered to Sweetie Belle, "I liked her better flightless"?

Spike has no wings, but so far, all other dragons do. Most of the fandom has been assuming he's just too young, and will grow them later; after all, Twilight described him as a baby dragon. He's only as old as the mane 6's cutie marks, which likely happened within 5-10 years prior to the show starting. It's a natural expectation that he'd grow wings, and it's a claim far out of the ordinary that he's the only on-screen representative of a previously undescribed "earth dragon" species. And because humans are contrary, contradictions of their expectations will be met with shock and anger.
Background Pony #2FE7
@Daneasaur
I absolutely hate it when that happens. Its a pain I've felt as well.

To clarify though, I don't hate you and I at least don't think the people who argued with you in the threads I was mentioning hated you either. Its your opinion and you were always entitled to it and to defend it. Yet the minute you learned of these leaks, you started making pre-emptive negative comments about anyone who ever disagreed with you on this topic. I have seen people address your points many times and debunk them logically. Its not fair for you to pretend that never happened and that everyone else but you was just going "because I say so!".

When I said I think you deserved any "I told you so's" that came your way, it was because indeed have I seen you continuously seek out images (whether for the tag situation or not) of Spike drawn with wings to propagate the discussion even when everyone else was just happily admiring the picture and expressing their desire for him to grow wings.

From experience, I know such a thing bothered you due to your headcanon, which caused friction with more than one person over the months. That doesn't mean I want people to seek you out and rub this on your face, BUT lets be fair, if you're now going into every thread about this topic to complain about how the show using their headcanon instead of yours has ruined everything and that they're all "insufferable" people, then you're kinda asking for it yourself.
anonymous_user_08sept20

@Daneasaur
I'm only agreeing with background's post. No need to get angry.
Beau Skunky
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Cute wittle skunku
@Daneasaur
I don't hate you, just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they hate you.

@Background Pony #0123
Surprised there's not any discussion on Twilight's outfit.
EMositeCC
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Meep
Waaaaaiiii!
Background Pony #5E2E
Omg. What is this commotion about Spike getting wings?! XD
Daneasaur

@Hebbocake
Get a duck tag and go away.


@Background Pony #1EDC
I wrote a 4 hour long well thought out reply to all of this, but derpibooru just ate it and didn't post it.

I'm just gonna go have a cry because there is no way I can properly re-write my explanations.

Nor should I. Everyone just takes anything and everything I say as some sort of attack, thinks I claimed something in 100% when I didn't, and just overall hate me.

I'm surprised I haven't been banned with 12 offense breaking tags yet just because people hate me.

Background Pony #2FE7
Ooof, that's a lot. Ok, here we go:

@Daneasaur
Yet it still would have been unique. Especially due to the possibility that Scorpan gave Celestia Spike's egg, so we could involve him. There was a blank check and it was used to pay for a bottle of water instead of something worthwhile.

"Rare". Spike being some kkind of earth dragon would've making a bit more rare than the winged kind, just because we see the winged ones while the others don't usually show up. But if they're an entire subspecies, that means Spike isn't unique. And the Scorpan thing would be very interesting, I agree. Yet I don't see how Spike having wings automatically nullifies that. What, he has wings now so now we can do nothing with his past? Scorpan hates dragons with wings? Why are these mutually exclusive?

@Daneasaur
My "damage control" has been "Got proof? Here is my supporting sequences [provides them]. What are yours?" Only to be met with things such as "It's gonna happen!" and "because I said so!" and "I don't have to talk to you" and in general, being ignored. It got to the point I started to blacklist the tag of winged spike because most people who made art of it had no capability for discussion and did nothing but sperg out about it. On top of it were any events to give spike wings resulted in a totally bananas plot that was so headcanon it was practically insanity.

Obviously I wouldn't be able to know every single time you discussed this topic, but as someone interested in the same thing, I've seen plenty of discussions in which people weren't just doing that, but expansively explaining why the "proof" you provided for the earth dragon theory usually wasn't proof at all, and you just ignored it.

Like, from the top of my head, things like Spike being a good digger, having nictating membranes, or his giant form having a different model from the other adult dragons. You often tried to pass those as proof, but they weren't.

-Spike is a good digger, but nothing ever implied he was better than the others. Did he ever beat any other dragon in a digging competition? How were you so sure he was better at this than a dragon with wings?

-I remember people mentioning the membranes thing weren't exclusive to earth creatures as well, since lots of birds have them too to protect their eyes while flying, yet you continued to use it as an argument in favor of earth dragons.

-The bodyshape argument was thrown out the window during Gauntlet of Fire. Not only did Torch look completely different from the other adult dragons, but there were even teens who already looked really buff and way too big for their wings. Their body-shapes fitted the "earth dragon" image you presented way more than Spike, yet they had wings.

And so on. Basically the point is there was never "evidence" of Spike being a different subspecies other than the show not explaining why he didn't have wings. But at the end of the day, the most obvious explanation was always "because he's too young". It really isn't surprising that this ended up being the reason.

@Daneasaur
You're certainly seeming to push that theirs are better than mine, thus antagonizing me, but I'll withold my temper and keep this a discussion.

I certainly didn't try to imply that so thank you for witholding your temper.
I think I was clear that my point was that no headcanon is "better", but rather, the fact that you insist the show not following your headcanon means the character is being ruined or that its a definite negative thing, despite the fact that this is precisely what lots of people also wanted because their headcanons involved Spike growing wings. If anything (again, not trying to antagonize you) you're the one that gave this impression by always considering your headcanon above theirs. You also openly mocked the wing headcanon on more than one ocassion.

@Daneasaur
As I stated, I had "proof" and supporting moments in the series (adult stages lack wings.

Like I said, you didn’t have “proof”. You had a selection of handpicked scenes that you often chose to interpret a specific way in order to support your headcanon. But hardly any of them even hinted at earth dragons even being a thing.
Spike’s sudden growth in season2 was the only relevant argument, and even then it wasn’t definite because we had no way to know that’s how he would look like by growing normally. It was a sudden mutation that left him unable to speak of talk. It was something, but not reliable.

@Daneasaur
Lack of wings is pointed out by other dragons

They pointed his lack of wings because he didn’t have them, obviously. But never did they mention them in a way that could be interpreted as this being a trait from a different dragon race. It was always part of their mockery, rooted in his small stature and young age. And what a surprise, turns out that’s exactly what it was: Little baby Spike being too young to have wings.

@Daneasaur
none of the other dragons look a thing like him)

If you’r talking about the adults, Torch broke that rule. He looks VERY similar to giant Spike, and has wings. His model differs from the other adults just as much. There was nothing to it.
If you’re talking about the teenagers, they all look very different from each other, and again, some of them are really buff and “earth dragon-like”, yet have wings and are the same race.
At this point, this argument is like looking at the silhouette of a new pony that looks like Bulk Biceps, and thinking “no way this can be a Pegasus. He looks too bulky and heavy for that”.
The show obviously doesn’t care about that. There are varying bodyshapes among every race.

@Daneasaur
and that the series lacks statements and sequences (not a single dragon said "he doesn't even have wings YET"

Lack of direct statements is never proof of the contrary. I think you know that.
Just because they were never upfront about it, it didn’t mean another explanation was more likely. The age thing was always the most reasonable one, and the show never denied or contradicted this idea. It just didn’t confirm it. Until now.

@Daneasaur
The "pro wing" arguments had… nothing. The one argument anyone made was "all OTHER dragons have wings, so Spike might eventually get some". This argument was debunked when it was found that another dragon DID lack wings.

It wasn't debunked, what are you saying? The only other dragon without wings was Spike's same size, aside from a clear deformity on his tail. His general height was that the same though. So lets rephrase that line then:

“All OTHER dragons older than Spike have wings, so Spike might eventually get some”.

That’s what the argument was, and considering that along with this show, western dragons DO have wings in almost every single piece of media they appear in, this by itself was a far more solid line of thought that things like: “Spike’s a good a digger and has nictating membranes. He must be an earth dragon even though we have no proof the other dragons don’t have this same things too”.


@Daneasaur
Not really. It means Ember is not neededand Spike should have remained Dragon Lord because we know he'd keep the dragons out of equestria.

"But he'd botch that up and miss all his friends! We mean what he can do in ponyville!"

Spike being just another dragon, even in ponyville, means we don't need any other dragons to show up. I mean, the prerequisites of being like a dragon is apparently fire breathing and flight so now Spike has that completely covered so there. Spike could do some flying things that Fluttershy or RD or Twilight can't do which would be… um…. [has nightmare flashbacks to Equestria games where the entire crystal empire, the delegates from multiple other regions, and even the princesses had an orgy with the idiot ball in order to give Spike any significance] oh, right, he can do exactly what they can on a much smaller scale for when the characters are removed by idiocy.

I mean, maybe there are other dragon traits or some dragon training he could undergo by his friend Ember to make him much more formidable… Oh, wait, instead of that, they are bringing in Smolder. You know, a dragon we've never seen before that will exist as an exposition fairy instead of an already established dragon friend to Spike.

"You're being too harsh! Spike will be his same self but just has wings, like Twilight."

Oh yeah, instead of letting him mature in any manner, he'll stay immature. I mean, after all, we need to have a butt monkey to take all the abuse through the series since it's "bad taste" to let any of the ponies suffer it post season 1. Spike, you're on in five!

This is all conjecture based on what you think this event might bring for the show.
They could have entirely different things planned for each scenario you mentioned. Its perfectly fine if you don’t like this outcome because it ruins some of the ideas you had, but don’t pretend everything about the character can only go downhill because of it. There many paths they can explore with lots of potential. It will just involve him having wings too.
TheAmazingPeanuts

@Beau Skunky
Why is a big deal of Spike having wings, while Twilight get some backlash from the fans saying she looked better without wings. I don't get that.
Beau Skunky
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
Cool Crow - "Caw!" An awesome tagger
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Cute wittle skunku
@Daneasaur
Only to be met with things such as "It's gonna happen!" and "because I said so!" and "I don't have to talk to you" and in general, being ignored. It got to the point I started to blacklist the tag of winged spike because most people who made art of it had no capability for discussion and did nothing but sperg out about it.

I remember catching flack just for saying "I like him better without wings" on a winged Spike pic a few months back. It's surprising how touchy, obsessive, & defensive some fans get from that, considering how most bronies used to hate (and some still hate) Twilight getting wings.
I never understood why it's ok for Spike, but not Twilight. (Which honestly hasn't really changed her much either debatably.)

I get accused of being a "hater" of something here so much, I almost don't care anymore. (Which is ironic, because I used to be called a "Hasdrone," and such.)

As for Spike being a "punching bag," I see the other mane 6 also being prone to cartoonish slapstick too quite often. Twilight especially got it just as bad as Spike in Season 1 & 2.
Though, Twi', and the CMC seem to get it ali'l less now ever sense their "ascension" episodes. So maybe the same coud happen for Spike.
Daneasaur

@Background Pony #1EDC
@Background Pony #1EDC

But that's the thing. If there really was another subspecies of dragons (earth dragons) then Spike being one wouldn't have made him unique. Just from a group we don't normally see. "Unique" would've been making it so that all dragons normally get wings, but Spike doesn't for some special reason, such as being hatched by Twilight or something like that.


Yet it still would have been unique. Especially due to the possibility that Scorpan gave Celestia Spike's egg, so we could involve him. There was a blank check and it was used to pay for a bottle of water instead of something worthwhile.

See, I can't blame for having been trying to do as much damage control as you can since the leaks first showed up, but from someone who's been here long enough and seen the points you always made against Spike growing wings on almost every pic portraying him that way, then the only thing I can say is that excuses aside, you earned every single one "I told you so" that comes your way. Which should be lots of them.


My "damage control" has been "Got proof? Here is my supporting sequences [provides them]. What are yours?" Only to be met with things such as "It's gonna happen!" and "because I said so!" and "I don't have to talk to you" and in general, being ignored. It got to the point I started to blacklist the tag of winged spike because most people who made art of it had no capability for discussion and did nothing but sperg out about it. On top of it were any events to give spike wings resulted in a totally bananas plot that was so headcanon it was practically insanity.

Just as an additional note, whether this is bad or a waste of potential is just your opinion because you wanted a very specific thing for Spike and this just ruined it. Theres TONS of other people who want just as much for Spike's character, whose ideas go hand in hand with getting wings. Your headcanons aren't better than theirs.


You're certainly seeming to push that theirs are better than mine, thus antagonizing me, but I'll withold my temper and keep this a discussion. As I stated, I had "proof" and supporting moments in the series (adult stages lack wings. Lack of wings is pointed out by other dragons, none of the other dragons look a thing like him) and that the series lacks statements and sequences (not a single dragon said "he doesn't even have wings YET" and anything Garble said was an insult.) The "pro wing" arguments had… nothing. The one argument anyone made was "all OTHER dragons have wings, so Spike might eventually get some". This argument was debunked when it was found that another dragon DID lack wings. In the tally marks, there was more supporting the lack of Spike getting wings than anything pointing to Spike getting wings.

Truth is whether they exploit it or not, this opened just as many great possibilities as Spike not being a winged dragon. They're just not the possibilities you wanted to see.


Not really. It means Ember is not neededand Spike should have remained Dragon Lord because we know he'd keep the dragons out of equestria.

"But he'd botch that up and miss all his friends! We mean what he can do in ponyville!"

Spike being just another dragon, even in ponyville, means we don't need any other dragons to show up. I mean, the prerequisites of being like a dragon is apparently fire breathing and flight so now Spike has that completely covered so there. Spike could do some flying things that Fluttershy or RD or Twilight can't do which would be… um…. [has nightmare flashbacks to Equestria games where the entire crystal empire, the delegates from multiple other regions, and even the princesses had an orgy with the idiot ball in order to give Spike any significance] oh, right, he can do exactly what they can on a much smaller scale for when the characters are removed by idiocy.

I mean, maybe there are other dragon traits or some dragon training he could undergo by his friend Ember to make him much more formidable… Oh, wait, instead of that, they are bringing in Smolder. You know, a dragon we've never seen before that will exist as an exposition fairy instead of an already established dragon friend to Spike.

"You're being too harsh! Spike will be his same self but just has wings, like Twilight."

Oh yeah, instead of letting him mature in any manner, he'll stay immature. I mean, after all, we need to have a butt monkey to take all the abuse through the series since it's "bad taste" to let any of the ponies suffer it post season 1. Spike, you're on in five!



Look, I'd like to be wrong. I'd like for this to be a great transition and a full signal that they will let Spike be more mature and not so much of a freaking punching bag for the bad jokes.

That said, I'm NOT GOING TO WATCH THE EPISODE UNTIL IT'S OFFICIAL AIR DATE.

I'm no cheater and I don't need to see it out of context.
thps48
Wallet After Summer Sale -

Young Leosword
@TheAmazingPeanuts
That was a prediction for either the first or third episode. Ah, in fact, I don’t believe I’ve yet seen the synopses for the first six episodes which precede Surf and/or Turf. ^_^
TheAmazingPeanuts

@thps48
I didn't watch the rest of the leaks, I only watched the one where Spike get his wings, out of curiosity.
thps48
Wallet After Summer Sale -

Young Leosword
@TheAmazingPeanuts
Likely. The Furry Six want to learn about friendship straight from the horses, then a big Xenoblade-Batman-y fight scene, then they build the school and/or the tree/box/map builds the school. X3
TheAmazingPeanuts

@thps48
We don't have much information about this new character yet because we not supposed to know about it in first place, maybe Smolder will appear in the season premiere.
thps48
Wallet After Summer Sale -

Young Leosword
@TheAmazingPeanuts
Additionally, the first five, six are absent assuming the production codes are to be believed. :3
TheAmazingPeanuts

@Daneasaur
@Background Pony #F284
Of this, I know of The main shitstorm episode, Molt Down, focuses on Spike molting and sprouting wings. Because I too am trying to avoid being utterly ass shoved and raped when it comes to spoilers and actually want something to look forward to, I’m waiting for the actual episode air date to see it through. That said, sloppy posters have still said shit they should have been banned for outside of spoilers. Namely, Smolder’s existance and that the dragon basically popped up out of bumfuck nowhere to be an exposition fairy for Spike instead of, oh, say, Ember coming by to explain why Spike is mutating. Nono, we’ll have a random dragon we never met before be the one to do this.

I believe Smolder appeared in a earlier episode, keep in mind the leaked episodes are not in order.
Background Pony #2FE7
@Beau Skunky
It was kinda interesting to assume some species of dragons didn't have them, (like earth-ponies) and made Spike a li'l unique to other dragons. Still, I look forward to seeing how it happens.

But that's the thing. If there really was another subspecies of dragons (earth dragons) then Spike being one wouldn't have made him unique. Just from a group we don't normally see. "Unique" would've been making it so that all dragons normally get wings, but Spike doesn't for some special reason, such as being hatched by Twilight or something like that.

@Daneasaur
@TheAmazingPeanuts
The only downside is that a lot of the artists who made winged spike images to fit their headcanon will be screaming "HAHAHAHA! SEE! I KNEW IT'D HAPPEN!" when they didn't know it would happen.

See, I can't blame for having been trying to do as much damage control as you can since the leaks first showed up, but from someone who's been here long enough and seen the points you always made against Spike growing wings on almost every pic portraying him that way, then the only thing I can say is that excuses aside, you earned every single one "I told you so" that comes your way. Which should be lots of them.

Just as an additional note, whether this is bad or a waste of potential is just your opinion because you wanted a very specific thing for Spike and this just ruined it. Theres TONS of other people who want just as much for Spike's character, whose ideas go hand in hand with getting wings. Your headcanons aren't better than theirs.

Truth is whether they exploit it or not, this opened just as many great possibilities as Spike not being a winged dragon. They're just not the possibilities you wanted to see.
Beau Skunky
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
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Cute wittle skunku
@Daneasaur
I think Spike is just a klutz, or (let's face it) a child basically who tends to screw up. Despite his faults, I like how he bounces back, and can fix things regardless, and isn't always incompetent, and has even helped save the day. So I think the writers do give him love.

Also, honestly Spike isn't the only character to of been portrayed as a klutz, or the physical butt of jokes. Twilight had it pretty bad in some earlier episodes herself. Like in "Feeling Pinkie-keen," where Spike was a li'l more competent then she was.
Daneasaur

@Background Pony #F284
I'm aware that season 8 was exceedingly mishandled and leaked like wine through a cheese grater to the point episodes have even been found online.

Of this, I know of The main shitstorm episode, Molt Down, focuses on Spike molting and sprouting wings. Because I too am trying to avoid being utterly ass shoved and raped when it comes to spoilers and actually want something to look forward to, I'm waiting for the actual episode air date to see it through. That said, sloppy posters have still said shit they should have been banned for outside of spoilers. Namely, Smolder's existance and that the dragon basically popped up out of bumfuck nowhere to be an exposition fairy for Spike instead of, oh, say, Ember coming by to explain why Spike is mutating. Nono, we'll have a random dragon we never met before be the one to do this.

Am I wrong? I'd like to be, but honestly, it's never a good thing to get one's hopes up in any topic that concerns Spike.

Spike at your service, Dragon Quest, Princess Spike, just for Sidekicks, and Equestria games exist as monuments of proof that no amount of buttmonkeying will dissuade the writers from using Spike as a chaos magnet.



[b]AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO CORRECT ME/[/b]

Do so by simply saying "Okay, you don't know the full story". Don't blab out the entire freaking plot or I'll find some way to utterly ruin your day.
Beau Skunky
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
Cool Crow - "Caw!" An awesome tagger
Magnificent Metadata Maniac - #1 Assistant
Artist -

Cute wittle skunku
Is it me, or does Smolder look kinda like a rebooted G4 version of Whimsey Weatherbe?

I'm trying to avoid the spoilers though. So be careful what you say, guys.
Background Pony #0A53
@Daneasaur
…Are you sure you know all the leaks info? Because that's sounds like you don't know about Season 8.
Daneasaur

@TheAmazingPeanuts
Spike's development basically removed the need for any dragon to show up barring Ember. Ember's contribution would be for establishing the equestria/dragon relations and as a friend to Spike.

Smolder hasn't existed before now and I've learned isn't a one shot character, meaning they are there to hog limelight and plot potential from both Spike and Ember.

IE: Ember's appearances will be kept exceedingly sparse and Spike will remain the whipping boy, so here is random dragon with scootaloo's colors that you should all like because it plays both parts and robs you of development of either Ember or Spike.
JaggedCarpet
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@Beau Skunky
Yeah, I agree that they're nowhere near "Goddess" levels. They may be more powerful than normal Unicorns and live a lot longer, but they're still flawed and susceptible to failure like everyone else.