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I guess we’ll see how they try to sell the movie to people.
“No U”
0/10
See me after classes
@Itsthinking
“but Hasbro wants this franchise to be taken at least as seriously”
It’s a failure then IMO.I’ll never take seriously something that is nothing more than a glorified commercial ,a show that ,with EQG, gladly and obnoxiously derivated so far from the original product with such filmsy excuse and a poorly veiled attempt at aping Mfng Monster High.MLP dont deserve to be anlysed like a cartoon because ,frankly, during those last 3 year they made sure to remind us that it was anything but a product to sell and to top it off they doubled down ESPECIALLY after the early success of G4 made it clear that it happened because they stopped going the G3 road of “We dont give a hoot.Kids will buy anything”.EQG is merely G3 with a Hannah-Montana Barbie taking selfies filter applied on it.They want to treat it as a toyline,fine i get it and i accept it they are totally in the irght doing so with a property they own but they wont have their cakes and eat it too hence why i’m judging solely as a toyline (hence Opinion :EQG design are ugly as sins and their universe actively hurt the credibility of Equestria at a point that it’s unsalvageable) and not an expended Star Wars-esque multiverse like their ad executives locked in their ivory tower hope to.In my country,we call it attempting to make boogers passes as caviar.Being taken seriously is earned,that’s not a thing focus group can make appear out of thin air and it’s not me that say it here but bronies are still considered as the laughingstock of fandoms.If we are the a little bit of honest and we look at what we glorified,at what we supported,i start to feel that it’s not totally uindeserved
TL;DR MLP is a glorified commercial not a cartoon or a movie and attempting that only got so far in popularity because Internet contrarians made it THE LATEST HIP THING ON THE INTERNET because they wanted to look speshul ,to see it through the lens of basic cinema critique is foolish.They made their choice long ago and i’m guilty as everyone else to have foolishly hoped that they would have changed
So yeah. There are questions to be answered.
You’re not wrong. Look at Transformers and the basis of lore THAT series has over multiple universes.
@Background Pony #19D4
@CronoM
It may not be Lord of the Rings, but Hasbro wants this franchise to be taken at least as seriously as its other ones. It should make sense internally.
That is unusually aggressive whining about the most basic observations of character interactions and incredibly well known ones at that.
11 days is not a grace period for a moderator warning everyone to tone down the aggressive arguments. You telling everyone to ‘shut up and stop over thinking things’, was overly aggressive before and overly aggressive now.
Cool it down.
Edited
“Did you just use the ’its a cartoon for little girls’ taboo excuse in an mlp conversation when it was convenient for you to use against someone else, even though you over-analyze it to defend your own headcanon about Twilight? That’s a lot of hypocrisy there.”
Where,you’re making stuff up because you’re grasping at straws
And IT IS a toy commercial for little girls,lot of you oughta remember that fact and realize that your expectations of a Lord of the Rings tier version of MLP will NEVER EVER happen.You’re dissapointed because you set yourself to be disapointed.It’s abudantly clear with the existence of EQG that the writers and Hasbro dont see MLP as an IP to tell grandiose stories and deep intricate/psychological/It’s subtext Steven plots
It’s not overanlaysis when it’s AS SIMPLE AS THAT
What’s the point of trying when it’s obvious that nothing short of a total makeover of MLP in The Spike Show will satisfy you
A whole Celestia and Spike episode with them sharing a few moments of connection with a cute little hug and “love you, Mom” to wrap it up would prompt a heartshattering HNNNGGG the fandom hasn’t experienced in ages.
Too bad we don’t see Celestia very often. This would actually make a pretty good Celestia episode.
I personally saw it like this:
>Twilight hatches egg
>Celestia sees the raw power Twilight performs with, decides to tutor her (originally to replace her one day but that didn’t happen)
>Spike is an infant and is taken care of by Celestia (celestia and Luna knowing little about dragons)
>Twilight, enthused by her success, trains and studies ALL the time
>Celestia foresaw Twilight getting so lost in her studies that it’d harm her day to day life
>spike was groomed to be a grounding force for twilight
>moreso, celestia developed special scrolls that can be sent via his breath to bypass the common mail services
>when spike is old enough, is assigned to twilight as a fellow employee but with an overlying mission to keep twilight grounded in reality and to do “normal” things
Lesson zero showcases this HEAVILY (even to the point Spike sent a letter himself to Celestia about how bananas twilight had gone), but even the FIRST episode showcases that, while they are friends, Twilight often treats him like a fellow employee and NOT like a family member, and hardly even like a person (doggy bed).
On the flipside, Spike, while he cares about Twilight’s wellbeing, doesn’t see her as “a mother figure” and puts his ties with RD and Rarity on the same level of closeness with Twilight, despite having known Rarity and RD for less time.
This makes Secret of my Excess even more horrifying when you realize that Spike doesn’t have the normal “family appreciation” that he should in regards to ANYONE in ponyville. This is why Twilight couldn’t help him. This is why RD and Fluttershy couldn’t convince him out of his greed. Even an attack from the Wonderbolts only irritated him.
In fact, the only thing that quelled him was knowing that Rarity honestly loved the generosity that his normal self showed her and he wanted that appreciation back enough to give up everything else he had.
Very terrifying to think that…
No wonder Spike has skewed views on the world at times; his only “parent figure” doesn’t live anywhere near him and he’s “just living with a friend”.
I suppose that’s why we are appreciating the sharp and snarky Spike as it showcases the bitterness he harbors over the disconnect between him and everyone else.
I do hope we get an Amending Fences tier episode for questions like this.
Perhaps, but that isn’t entirely false.
Think about it. Its disadvantageous to write an origin story that is pigeon-holed to be negative without any resolution or already known resolution. He wasn’t given the authority to write a ground-breaking Amending Fences-esque turning point for Twilight and Spike’s issues, something the show hasn’t dared touch in 6 seasons yet. It’s like “You want me to write a Spike and Twilight origin story with no retcons and no resolution? Why? Anything regarding how he was raised will be messed up and miserable no matter who writes it, cause Spike’s known backstory with Twi is so messed up in MLP canon. With my hands tied for writing a resolution, there’s no point.”
Unless it was a villainizing piece, having the main focus being on how messed up this whole situation was due to Celestia and the impact on Twilight and Spike’s life, would be pointless without a resolution. He still featured those insane flaws in the comic because he knew us readers know continuity, he just didn’t have them as the main topic cause he couldn’t.
A main topic needs A setup––>An issue—–>A resolution. If you barred from writing a resolution for an issue, you can’t have it as the main topic, you can only dance around it.
>_> Although to be fair, even with the comic dancing around it, as a partially unintentional villainizing piece, it still managed to display Celestia’s decisions as downright insane as in the show.
@Itsthinking
Its a sad and constant theme throughout the entire series. :( I’m not sure what her original FINAL intention was as a main character originally was (cause I bet a million they weren’t actually going to end the series with her becoming immortal and taking Celestia’s place and just ending it on that) but somewhere down the road, Twilight Sparkle has basically become our own little Shinji Ikari. We know the character has crippling moral and psychological issues, but the show isn’t exactly in a hurry to see the character become less messed up.
He answered those questions pretty poorly regardless, so meh. But “this story doesn’t really need to be told” refers to the whole idea of Twilight and Spike’s origins.
He only means the detail of Spike’s name (which was a minor part of the story) didn’t need to be told. Way to completely miss the point. The story was about WAY more than that.
The IDW hate is clouding your reading comprehension and judgement big time. Regardless what you personally like or dislike about the story, it’s really presumptuous to claim the writer didn’t care because you twist his words to fit what you already claimed.
““Let’s be real: there doesn’t need to be a reason why Twilight chose the name “Spike” for this baby dragon. “Spike” is an obvious name for a dragon. He has spikes. The convoluted connection between “Smarty Pants” and “Spike” is, well, convoluted. It doesn’t really need to be in this story, and this story doesn’t really need to be told. It’s really more symbolic than literal: Spike “replaces” Smarty Pants because he can talk to Twilight, where Smarty Pants could only listen, so his name is sort of a derivation of the doll’s.
If you want to stick with the much simpler explanation about Spike’s name—that one day Twilight said, “Hey, this baby dragon has spikes, I think I’ll call him Spike”—that’s cool! If you want to believe my circuitous explanation, that’s also cool! “Canon” is a very flexible thing in the magical land of Equestria, where the weather is controlled by flying horses and there are arcade games even though there’s no electricity.[](http://tedlyanderson.tumblr.com/post/141149825933/annotations-for-my-little-pony-40-twilight-and)
He focused on this dumb, convoluted crap and a story that he didn’t think of the implications of. It’s the exact reason the show writers don’t cover it.
He said “this story doesn’t need to be told,” and he told it anyway, just as kind of a lark, it means he doesn’t “get” how important these questions are to the story. So he doesn’t really care. He admits his story is contrived and circuitous and that it can be ignored, which shows a real level of lack of caring.
@CronoM
Honestly the worst part about this is the thought that Twilight might have grown up “normal” had Celestia not decided to saddle her with the responsibility of an infant.
Edited
Why do I get the feeling you made this up and have no source?
Precisely.
I really hope they make an Amending Fences episode in the future that really addresses Spike and Twilight’s issues in the past and present. One that does it justice even if the revelations for Twilight aren’t pretty. They weren’t pretty in Amending Fences, and they made it a solid episode.
I don’t read the comics, but if this author said he didn’t care, then that’s your first problem right there.
And the only one that matters really.
So long as its handled by someone who cares about both characters enough, it doesn’t need to be a literary masterpiece. Its enough to make it a heartwarming story about 2 characters who realize how important they are for each other, and how their long history pre-friendship lessons, might’ve caused some unintentional rift between them when compared to the friends made post-lessons.
Again, imo they tackled Amending Fences really well.
No reason they couldn’t do the same here, if only maybe because it involves (or is supposed to involve) a closer bond.
Edited
While I can’t speak for the author’s ability to care, you can hardly mess up something horribly in the past when addressing something that’s already messed up horribly in the present. (I mean, technically you can, but honestly the comic didn’t create any scenarios that the show hadn’t already trapped themselves into)
They’ve went so long without tackling Twilight and Spike’s relationship issues, the issue in the viewers eyes have continued to grow and grow and, well, festered.
While the details of Spike’s upbringing is still unbelievably vague, over the seasons its painted a pretty good picture of what Spike’s upbringing at least lacked, which is a large list. Spike’s interactions with Twilight’s family and Celestia have been bare bones.
Without retcons, the backstory is fundamentally flawed and ugly. Painting a pretty picture in the past that doesn’t reflect the present at all is useless outside an AU.
As a person who read the full comic, I can’t say there was anything that was out of character for Canon young Twilight who shut most people out in terms of caring. Besides, she was a child with an impossible scenario, her overreaction was quite expected. Even the origin of Twilight’s ‘warped friendship’ with Spike was shown pretty well when Twilight realized Spike was supposed to be a friend to her….but a friend GIVEN to her by Celestia. On an impressionable child, that can seriously mess up her idea of what a friendship among equals is. Like I said before, always more then a slave, always less then a brother.
Or you, know, of just not doing it well. Like how the comics did exactly what you just described and messed it up horribly because the writer didn’t care (and admitted that he didn’t.)
@Itsthinking
I can maybe see the “disturbing” part being that she raised him as a son despite having been so young herself when he was born, but still I don’t think its something to feel afraid about when it has the potential to be developed as an incredibly touching storyline of two young kids who, despite not being related by blood, grew up together being closer than most siblings are, and how sometimes that causes the older one to forget that she’s really the only family the younger one has…
Ok, it can get really sad, but still, its so incredibly sad and unfair to ignore such an amazing part of the story just because they’re “scared” of handling it without somehow angering parents?
Edited
I still think that the closest would be his relationship with Celestia, which is glossed over but the “Word of God” being that Celestia did in fact mother him until he was mature. At most I could see him having (another) crisis of wondering where his egg was from and why he’s different from other dragons, but again, that still doesn’t paint him as a villain unless he went bananas for some silly reason that we’re not aware of over a topic we’re not aware of.
I can’t even really think of a reasonable circumstance that would lead Spike to becoming/joining up with a villain short of being brainwashed. And that would take away a lot of the character development. Every reason why he would want to has already either been covered or is a conclusion that’s easily drawn.
I mean I can get edgy and say “Spike finding out that the ponies hurt his parents/planned to never tell him about his parents,” but this would never happen.
Yup, but it still wouldn’t make him a threat in that alone. He shows he shuts down when that happens, he doesn’t get angry.