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semi-grimdark36128 edit172161 screencap294923 baff107 dragon lord torch402 garble2223 princess ember8628 rarity216695 spike92125 thod76 twilight sparkle356226 vex161 alicorn312193 dragon84935 pony1592557 g42016858 gauntlet of fire1544 comic134900 debate in the comments281 female1792126 game of thrones452 garblebuse47 mare734629 psyga's alternate pony scenes101 screencap comic5545 the happiest of dragons24 twilight sparkle (alicorn)148579
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Background Pony #FC1A
I don’t think she’d necessarily be using her beams. She could use her telekinesis instead. She’s picked up Spike with it, so it works on dragons. She’s picked up an Ursa Minor with it, and Garble’s gotta be lighter than that.
The question then is why does she never uses it against any of the many creatures she’s faced before? The one time we’ve seen her use it against a creature larger than a pony, it was with a sleeping one that wouldn’t resist. Now I’m not saying it’d be impossible otherwise, but just like her overall attitude on those situations, her choice of action is always consistent. It should be for a reason.
 
And even though there’s no evidence, I don’t think using magic on Spike would automatically mean dragons aren’t resistant. He’s a baby. Just how his scales aren’t as hard as an adult’s yet, or his fire isn’t as hot, this hypothetical magic resistance could also be dependant on age/size. This is all speculation though.
 
@Scrounge  
Yes, a full-on dragon invasion (or Torch on a solo run, for that matter) could very well be catastrophic (Canterlot might be safe if they still have those trees). But in this, the situation would be
Garble and maybe a few of his buddies going off to do something the Dragon Lord expressly forbade.
Yes, I fully agreed with this. While a single teenage dragon is still too much for a regular pony (they’d still raze the average village imo), even a bunch of them wouldn’t cause much trouble in a real full-scale war against the country. I was arguing under the assumption that Garble could actually rally the adult ones for his plans, which is what this pic seems to be suggesting as well.
 
@Scrounge  
And yeah, the tatzlwurm didn’t go down easy, but if nothing else, it can burrow and it looks to have at least a dozen yards’ worth of reach (and probably more) beyond what Garble would. Admittedly, we haven’t seen Garble breath fire yet, but unless he can belch up a jet of flame the length of a subway train…
Er, if I’m not mistaken, it actually popped out completely out of the ground at least once…and it didn’t look as long as you’re proposing. Regarding Garble’s fire breath, I’m just powerscaling Spike’s feat in Equestria Games with his and Garble’s size difference, which I believe isn’t a bad thing to work with. Between those 2 things, it really doesn’t seem too crazy to assume from there.
Scrounge
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
Since the Beginning  -

nobody's favorite
@Background Pony #26D2  
I don’t think she’d necessarily be using her beams. She could use her telekinesis instead. She’s picked up Spike with it, so it works on dragons. She’s picked up an Ursa Minor with it, and Garble’s gotta be lighter than that.
 
Yes, a full-on dragon invasion (or Torch on a solo run, for that matter) could very well be catastrophic (Canterlot might be safe if they still have those trees). But in this, the situation would be Garble and maybe a few of his buddies going off to do something the Dragon Lord expressly forbade.
 
And yeah, the tatzlwurm didn’t go down easy, but if nothing else, it can burrow and it looks to have at least a dozen yards’ worth of reach (and probably more) beyond what Garble would. Admittedly, we haven’t seen Garble breath fire yet, but unless he can belch up a jet of flame the length of a subway train…
Karackas

Changeling Guard-Consort
All this has given me a headache. I don’t think we know enough details of Equus’ species’ anatomy/capabilities to make concrete judgements on all this. We’re arguing over the physics of magic.
Background Pony #FC1A
@Fwelin  
Injuries in the show are taken on “levels” of comic relief, which is why sometimes an injury leaves somone dazed and confused for a while, has the character ignore it completely, and others they actually show to have recieved medical attention. The easiest way to notice this is when the same character responds differently to similar circumstances. Dash didn’t dive into the ground at miles per hour. She simply lost control of one her stunts (like many times before) while being relatively close to the ground. That scene didn’t appear any more “extreme” than the others, so the fact that she hurt herself then was a clear case of the episode simply requiring her to show the “serious” effect of one of her many accidents, instead of using them for comedy.
 
Spike is the one most commonly used for slapstick, so using scenes of him appearing slightly dazed from an accident isn’t really the best evidence, sice that’s part of the joke. Unlike a pony though, he has more consistently shown to never be notoriously affected by something, which has a logical basis and, excluding RD’s accidents, are always on a higher scale than what happens to the pony cast. There’s also the massive background for dragon reslience and durability from countless sources outside of the show, which has’t really been inconsistent with anything else related to them in other media. Ponies being as durable Dragons isn’t really a serious debate in any way.
 
Spike was crushed by that rock in Spike at your Service. Due to the nature of the shot, I guess there could be room for an alternate interpretation, but his position related to the fence, the way the rock seemed to cover the space beteween the fence’s sides, and AJ’s & Fluttershy’s reactions when the rock fell on him (they were hehind him, so they could see), all heavily point to the rock having landed on him. Since him ignoring damage due to his scales is consistent with the show, then there’s nothing really going against that.
 
I know a grazing swipe wouldn’t open them up (I said a good hit before) but it would still hurt them. Ponies don’t have increased durability against piercing/slashing damage, where has that even been a thing? As far as durability is concerned, ponies are flesh and blood equines with cartoon physics on their side when the situation isn’t serious.
 
That’s not a precise estimate for Tom’s weight. I’ve seen 2-3 people lift a rock of approximately that size before, I’m pretty sure they weren’t lifting 2-3 tons. Feats like this have to be treated with a degree of logic because its obvious sometimes the writers are inconsistent for the sake of a scene working a certain way. AJ also couldn’t free herself from having her hoof trapped under a very small rock. Is that consistent with her other showings? And if we really, really need an explanation for the Tom inconsistency, we can chalk it up to being under the influence of Discord’s magic, which messes with reality and physics. But you can’t seriously believe ponies in general can move around and carry TONS. The strongest earth ponies might be able to handle 1 or 2, but definetly not a unicorn without her magic.
 
Being a prison for ancient and “evil” creatures doesn’t necesarily mean everything there is powerful. You don’t need to be powerful to be evil. Like I said, the Bugbear is probably extremely violent/evil and responsible for several attacks (if its ancient, then maybe for centuries) so they naturally locked him in the place where its least likely for him to return. This has nothing to do with assuming a creature that is basically a normal-sized bear with bug wings, could be more resilent than a full-grown dragon. Again, its really upsetting at which level we’ve come to underestimate these creatures with the reputation of being terrors of the land, and feared universally, both in this show and every other media they appear in.
 
Also, what is exactly is the scope of BonBon’s “organization”? How big and how serious is it? Even without counting the fact that the whole secret orgnization/identity thing was just a joke and plot device to explain the issue with her name, there’s nothing suggesting this organization is really that big of a deal. Aside from the Alicorns and a handful of Unicorns, ponies in general aren’t exactly equipped to deal with dangerous creatures. We’ve seen that many times. So it seemed to me the organization BonBon belonged to was mostly accustomed to dealing with minor monsters and threats, with something like the Bugbear being a huge deal for them.
 
Twilight’s lasers have only shown noticeable destructive power against inanimate objects, which isn’t the same as facing magical, mythical creatures, of which dragons are widely considered the mightiest and the ones ponies are scared the most. And the few times she’s used them in actual combat against living creatures other than ponies, they’ve shown to be enough to either make them slowly back away, or annoy them. What exactly then, is the basis for being so sure they’re more effective than that in said situations? Especially given how even though she’s shown she’s not above using them when there’s danger, sometimes she simply doesn’t? No matter how you see it, it really boils down to her knowing when her magic can help, and when it can’t.
 
Plot Induced Stupidity applies when the character acts differently from he/she normally acts due to plot requiring it, or doing/not doing things he/she normally does for the same reason. Twilight’s behaviour against creatures other than ponies is consistent. Either she backs away, or she fights but can’t just overpower her opponent. Its obvious she knows herself better than any fanfiction could ever hope to.
 
Finally, yes Twilight could disable Garble by pinning him with a large rock, hence why I repeatedly said I believe she can win even if she can’t cause much damage directly. However, since she wouldn’t simply catch him like that because he can obviously also fly away to dodge it and/or even melt the rock down with his fire (they’ve melted metal) while also trying to attack her, then concentrating long enough to do it and catch him wouldn’t be a piece of cake. Basically, she can win without pushing herself to the limit, but one mistake and she’s toast. That’s what most of the lol battlemage Twilight fanfiction people seem to be forgetting.
 
And since she’s not only one of the most powerful ponies in Equestria, but also one of the handful who can fight on anything close to that level, then how exactly is possible (without relying on ancient relics of course) for people to think the country would have no problem in a war against creatures whose young pose a large dangerous threat to anyone below Celestia/Luna, and the adults are all on the level of their rulers?
Fwelin
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).

@Background Pony #26D2  
In MLP, the vast majority of injuries have an undercurrent of comic relief. The ones that are actually taken completely seriously are extremely rare, and still show extremely high resilience in those occasions (Rainbow crashing into the ground at likely several hundred miles per hour, and only breaking two bones? That would turn a human into a smear on the ground). Comic relief merely turns them from extremely durable to nearly invincible, and 99% of the feats that dragons have are comic relief, too.
 
We’ve had examples of ponies being injured, yes, like the ones you mentioned, but Spike has low end feats too, such as when he got banged up and fainted after falling down some stairs in Princess Twilight Sparkle. Spike never got crushed by the rock you’re talking about in Spike at Your Service; that scene was a joke on watcher’s expectations by having Spike actually have barely been missed by the rock after we thought it landed on him. Also, that high durability would apply to sharp objects, like claws, too. It’ll take a lot more than a casual swipe to gut a pony. I’m sure Garble could do it, but it’d actually take effort and a clean shot.
 
No, I’m not exaggerating Tom’s weight. Let’s assume that Rarity is about 3 feet long (which is a pretty standard rough estimate for normal sized MLP ponies). That would make give Tom a volume of roughly 1 cubic meter, which, given an assumption of it being primarily made of a standard mix of rocky materials, like limestone and granite would give it a weight of somewhere around 2.5-3 tons.
 
Tartarus isn’t a standard jail; it’s a prison meant for “ancient evil creatures” that is guarded by Cerberus. If the bugbear wasn’t a huge threat (a threat that was so great, that merely it escaping caused the secret agent service that Bon Bon belonged to to disband out of fear, and have the agents go into hiding), then they would have put it in a normal prison or holding cell.
 
Twilight’s lasers have shown very high destructive power, and the only beings that have ever shrugged her attacks off with minor damage (without blocking it with magic) are the Tatzlwurm and the Bugbear. Twilight doesn’t use her magic when she should 99% of the time when confronted with magical beasts or danger anyway, so her not using magic is because of plot induced stupidity, not because it would never work.
 
Even if, somehow, Garble was shown to be immune to lasers and magic stasis, all Twilight would have to do is pick up a rock as big as the one earlier in the show, and pin Garble with it. She’s picked up things orders of magnitude heavier before, after all.
Background Pony #FC1A
@Fwelin  
Of course they outdo ponies in terms of pure durability. Even Spike does, so its obvious teenagers do so even more. For ponies a couple of falls here and there are usually just cartoon physics when comedy requires it, while avoiding realism. But just like RD being sent to the hospital after one crash and Twilight being in a wheelchair covered in plaster casts during her unfortunate pinkie sense incident, it shows that when the plot doesn’t require them to ignore it, and need the realism, such things are enough for them to be seriously hurt.
 
I don’t think anyone would debate Spike’s the one among the main cast who takes the most punishment and yet feels it the least. That’s been pretty consistent since a long time ago. Spike at your Service even had him crushed by a rock larger than he is, and then just popping out from underneath without even being remotely dazed by it.  
And this is consistent behaviour for his character.
 
Secondly, I never said teenage dragons would be much stronger physically than adult ponies. They aren’t that much bigger than them yet so it makes sense. There should be a difference, but its probably not that much. The rock example isn’t exactly applicable however, because there’s a big difference between picking something up yourself, and trying to remove it from ontop of your chest while laying face up on the ground. Not to mention none of that matters when one good swipe would open a pony’s belly like a seashell.
 
Also, you’re greatly exagerating Tom’s weight. It was approximately as big as Rarity herself, if only slightly taller. Considering how big ponies are, that’s not “several tons” by any means.
 
I don’t think you’re really trying to compare the Bugbear’s durability with a dragon’s. If so, then the level at which we’ve begun to cripple and underestimate these creatures has really reached critical levels.  
The Bugbear being put in Tartarus isn’t a measure of power by any means. They put if there because they captured it. That’s all there is to it until further explanation. It probably was responsible for several attacks, so they decided to lock him up. Pretty sure if Garble decided to consistently show up in towns, attacking ponies and setting their houses on fire, they’d eventually capture him and put him there as well.
 
“Handily” is precisely the exageration that I’m arguing against, because evidence shows exactly the opposite.  
Like I said before, I don’t doubt that she could beat Garble, but consistent evidence shows that she wouldn’t just be able to instantly blast him out or magically freeze him, since that’s never been the case with the many, many life/death encounters they’ve had with dangerous creatures before. Some of which weren’t much bigger than him and several who were definetly less dangerous.
 
PS: I feel the comedic role they gave his character in this episode is part of the reason why people are having so many doubts about Twilight’s reaction to him. It caused some to forget how dangerous his species could be if they were actually trying to hurt other creatures w/o the show’s restrictions.
 
The characters in the show don’t share our “oh its a kid’s show, nothing’s ever going to happen to them” view. They see danger as real and react accordingly. That’s why ponies are historically scared of dragons.
Fwelin
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).

@Background Pony #26D2  
Other than fire and heat resistance, the durability feats we’ve seen of teenager dragons and Spike don’t really outdo durability feats we’ve seen of ponies, on the whole. We’ve seen Rainbow Dash plow into buildings at nearly top speed, Twilight have a piano land on her from dozens of feet up, Twilight crash into the library floor at nearly top speed, Twilight and Fluttershy get sent into walls hard enough to make indents, Fluttershy get sent a hundred feet after getting hit by a blunt metal object, the CMC fall dozens of feet from a broken zipline, etc., all with minimal or no injuries.
 
Their strength feats are also very impressive, even discounting earth ponies; for example, Twilight and Rarity carried Tom despite it likely weighing several tons, and Shining tossed Cadance at what looks to be over a hundred miles per hour. In comparison, Garble got completely pinned by a rock that looks to be about the same size as Tom.
 
Also, we don’t know how tough the bugbear is, so there’s no way to judge its durability in comparison to a dragon. However, we know it was dangerous enough to be imprisoned in Tartarus, so it’s entirely possible that it’s more durable than even an adult dragon. We’ve seen Twilight’s lasers vaporize solid rock before, and Starlight (who is roughly Twilight’s equal in battle) destroyed a stone bridge that was several dozen feet long in one shot, so they’re quite powerful.
 
I mean, I’m not going to argue that Twilight could take an adult dragon, but I think she could defeat Garble quite handily.
Background Pony #FC1A
@Scrounge  
My original comment was’t directed at you, but most of the general ones claiming the premise of this pic was valid. If the dragons actually declared war, then Equestria would be screwed. Whether they managed to repel the attack or not, it would end with the country as a barren wasteland and very few survivors. The season 5 finale proved that Alicorn ruler or not, even Sombra with an army of regular ponies can throw the country into chaos.
 
Regarding Twilight’s success against Garble, imo she would be able to easily escape him and/or probably leave him stuck somewhere, but whether she can affect him directly is debatable. Also, the battle against the Tatzlwurm was a definite team effort. Each of them would’ve gotten killed at certain points if the other didn’t save her. That thing also had no way to attack them other than trying to eat them (which gave them enough time to save each other), while a teenage dragon has his/her firebreath and super-sharp claws/fangs to end things fast if Twi or Cadance isn’t careful or makes a mistake.
 
Nevertheless, I agree Twilight should be able to deal with a teenage dragon (even if I doubt she’d be able to cause much damage directly), but my point is it wouldn’t be the stomp people assume it would be. Considering the crazy offensive and defensive capabilities we’ve seen of dragons so far, it’d be hard for Twilight to put him down, while a single mistake would be extremely dangerous/lethal for her. The battle with the Bugbear showed that her beams aren’t that much of a threat against creatures sturdier than a pony. So the automatic “blast away” theory of some people seems unlikely. But I fully believe she can still win due to her tremendous versatility advantage.
 
In my opinion:  
Adult Dragon >= Celestia/Luna >> Twilight/Cadance >= Teen Dragon.  
That seems FAR more realistic considering what we’ve seen, instead of how we’d like it to be.
 
Meaning, Twilight (and maybe Cadance) could beat a teenage dragon, but it would be a hard battle. On the other hand, the sisters would have little problems with them, but a full-grown dragon would be too much for them individually. If they fought together though (like Twi and Cadance did against the TW) they’d likely win.
Background Pony #FC1A
@Fwelin  
The most likely explanation is that its a specific spell with the effect of “moving the sun/moon”. Its not a matter of magical might (as you said, its obvious they can’t move mountains, cities, etc), but of the spell doing exactly that and nothing else. It comes natural for Celestia and Luna because of their cutiemarks, but for other unicorns it probably takes some ritual that requires several of them to cast it.
 
The point, its clear they don’t actually do it “by force”. Otherwise nothing short of Discord should come close to benig a threat for them, and as we’ve seen many, MANY times, that’s simply not the case.
Fwelin
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).

@Background Pony #26D2  
I think it’s likely that either the sun and moon aren’t anywhere near as large as the real life ones, or the spell that moves them doesn’t actually physically push them, given that a half dozen unicorns can move them despite not being even close to being strong enough to live a mountain, which is less than 0.000001% of the mass of the moon, let alone the sun.
Spiked Punch

“yeah, come to think of it, why didn’t we kick their butts right there and then?”
 
“Well I dunno Twilight, maybe because even you could’ve held your own with them, the rest of us would’ve been gutted/sliced/incinerated in seconds? And really, I could ask the same thing about the Timberwolves, the Hydra and that rock crocodile thing that had you shaking in fear, right? Even then, its not like your magic is exactly effective on creatures like them in the first place dear. I mean, remember the bugbear? You really weren’t doing much damage at all there, darling. And that thing was just a flying bear. These are dragons we’re talking about here. Violent ones. The ones you know Ponykind has been terrified of for ages? The ones we’ve seen swimming in lava, melting iron and munching on diamonds like its no big deal? Oh, I don’t want to undermine you Twi but…”
 
”…Ok Ok I get it! When you put it that way, I don’t know why I asked the obvious.”
Background Pony #FC1A
@Fwelin  
Both of which prove that Celestia and Luna raising the sun and moon isn’t something they accomplish due to magical “might”. Its a special, unique ability (from their cutiemarks) that has nothing to do with their rest of their overall power. Do people really think they are capable of moving anything else of that size? After all we’ve seen?
 
Think of Shining Armor. It was staed in Canterlot Wedding that no one could create barriers as powerful as his. Does that mean his magic is the strongest? No. It means barriers/shields are his cutiemark speciality, so he’s better at that speciality than others. But the rest of his magic isn’t on that level. Its the same with the sisters.
Fwelin
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).

@Background Pony #9E9C  
I’m not sure where you got that Twilight was exhausted after, since it cut away after she did so, and the next time we saw her she had too much energy, the opposite of being exhausted.
 
Regardless, The Journal of the Two Sisters says that raising and lowering the sun and moon not only doesn’t drain Celestia and Luna, but even rejuvenates their energy.
Background Pony #58C2
@Background Pony #26D2  
See, here’s the thing. I think that Alicorns ARE immensely powerful, but we’ve yet to see that power because the three alicorns who knows how to use it are expending the majority of it at dawn and dusk every day. That’s why they tend to try and avoid fighting, because of the effort required in lifting the sun and the moon. Twilight was exhausted after doing it with all three of their magical powers combined, after all.
Background Pony #FC1A
I can’t believe that after all we’ve seen, people STILL actually believe Alicorns are anything close to demi-gods or that they can actually take on giant creatures (hydras, dragons, ursas) with their own power (ie no EoH, Crystal Heart or Rainbow Power). Because its not like the show has portrayed Twilight consistently running from many dangerous creatures in the past, canonically demonstrated that her magic isn’t really that effective against said creatures (like the Tatzlwurm or the Bugear) and also directly showed and implied Celestia and Luna have very clear limits that aren’t anywhere near their unique cutiemark-related ability to move the sun and moon.
 
But I guess headcanons have always been more important than consistent evidence we don’t like.
Scrounge
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
Since the Beginning  -

nobody's favorite
You know what else Garble did here that was dumb?
 
He mouthed off to basically a friggin’ kaiju.
 
@FuckedUpEditLOL  
Or maybe dragon fire is just much hotter than lava.
 
@MadVillan  
It’s stilll fair to say that Celestia and Luna could take Garble without much trouble though, right?
 
…Heck, I think Cadance would be able to handle him.