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ArmadilloEater

Administrator
French Taunter
@Nightweaver20xx 
Everything went better than expected.  
Staff expanded on her redemption like I hoped, they gave her more depth like I hoped, she got introduction to the mane 6 episodes… Being hopeful pays off sometimes.
Draco_2k

@thps48  
My convenient explanation is that her original portrayal is due to going through something like death five seconds ago after stirring in a thousand year’s thought of violently deposing her loving sister on top of even more drama.
 
Shock, in other words.
 
It’s doubtful the writers bothered to think of any actual explanation behind her change in demeanor though.
thps48
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Wallet After Summer Sale -

Young Leosword
I never really saw a super wide difference between a meek, nervous Luna and a stoic, loner Luna. It could be argued that any emotion from Luna besides doubt and uncertainty is a front. Her real personality is invisible. Largely due to her limited appearences. :j
ArmadilloEater

Administrator
French Taunter
@Seabridge Drive  
I’m convinced the staff will do something to that idea, I’m sure they know the finale’s ending felt rushed, but they were short on time after all the action. And maybe they didn’t want to end the season on something that could have felt like a cliffhanger, so they wrapped things up nice and tight.
 
If Starlight is to become part of the main 7, her character needs more depth. And I do hope she becomes a fixture of the cast, not like Discord or the princesses. But only if we get more episodes about her introduction to the group. But I’m hopeful.
Draco_2k

@Seabridge Drive  
Fanfiction to the rescue!.. Maybe.
 
Seriously though, it’s great how much of these “missing pieces” the fandom puts back together. I think I’ve seen a hundred interpretations of Changelings’ origins alone.
Seabridge Drive
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
A Tale For The Ages - Celebrated MLP's 35th Anniversary and FiM's 8th Anniversary
Equality - In our state, we do not stand out.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Birthday Cake - Celebrated MLP's 7th birthday
Thread Starter - My Little Pony Movie thread
Magnificent Metadata Maniac - #1 Assistant
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

shhhhh, I'm not here
@armadiloeater  
I actually would love to see SG struggle with redeeming her self in the village she created; how the citizens still resent her for stealing their cutie marks.
 
As for this finale, I enjoyed it (though I agree her backstory was rushed) and can’t wait to see the redeemed her.
Seabridge Drive
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
A Tale For The Ages - Celebrated MLP's 35th Anniversary and FiM's 8th Anniversary
Equality - In our state, we do not stand out.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Birthday Cake - Celebrated MLP's 7th birthday
Thread Starter - My Little Pony Movie thread
Magnificent Metadata Maniac - #1 Assistant
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

shhhhh, I'm not here
@Draco_2k  
Pilot episodes are typically bad; usually because the writers had to start somewhere in the universe they created for its audience. I will say that the first two episodes did a fine job of establishing Equestria as well as introducing the main characters and what their traits are.
Draco_2k

@armadiloeater  
Can’t argue, I’ve yet to watch it.
 
(Yes, really.)
 
And if we are taking into account finales and pilots, I would say that most of them were good.
 
Overall, I suppose. But the issues we were talking about from the beginning are all on display. Say, the very first two episodes are my favorites - yes, really - and yet a lot of people in the fandom think of them as weak or outright despise them (point proven before I even had to bring it up, amazing) for very good reasons: they exemplify almost all writer’s weaknesses, the formulaic structures, the nonsensical moralization and the out-of-the-left-field resolutions that will go on to define the “two-parter” formula.
 
I think the saving grace of the first two episodes is that it serves as an introduction to the amazing world and characters of the show. The later episodes won’t have that excuse, leaving the negatives all the more pronounced.
ArmadilloEater

Administrator
French Taunter
@Draco_2k  
I would argue that “A Canterlot Wedding” was a superb finale that didn’t suffer from pacing issues, even when they had to introduce two new characters. Shinning Armor came out of nowhere, but the fandom accepted him because he had a great introduction. The BBBFF song was prefect for that. Cadance suffered from the “Pink Alicorn Toy” stigma, but was also accepted after the episode aired.
 
And if we are taking into account finales and pilots, I would say that most of them were good. Out of the ten openers and finales we’ve had, 8 had an “epic story time” motif, and only two were truly bad: the first two episodes (almost stopped watching the show at that point when I was trying it out, thank god for Winter wrap up) and magical mystery cure. The rest ranged from good to great.
Draco_2k

The thing about Luna is that we only had a few minutes of footage to go with before season 2, that is to say we had no idea what her character really was. The fandom made up her character based on a few facial expressions and just one line of dialogue.
 
Sort of. Like you said, she had very little, but not quite as little as nothing. At the very least this lack of information prevented her later appearance from being unexplainable or destructive to the show - hey, maybe her earlier behaviour was nothing but shock from the whole affair, or whatever - even though it was contrary to expectation.
 
Having the change happen off-screen is poor writing form though, like pulling a deus ex machina. You want the audience to have a smooth ride behind the wheel, not second-guessing whether they should have run over the old lady just now.
 
Accessibility is one of those ideas exclusive to the modern media. And Shakespeare.
 
Although I will agree that “Magical Mystery Cure” felt like a bullet train in terms of pacing. But then again, packing a finale in just one episode is kinda impossible.
 
To my recollection, every one of the “Epic story time” episodes suffers from these types of problems, starting with the very first two episodes. It’s not impossible to pull off in short timespan if you know what you’re doing, but a big part of knowing how to do things is knowing when not to do them.
ArmadilloEater

Administrator
French Taunter
@Draco_2k  
The thing about Luna is that we only had a few minutes of footage to go with before season 2, that is to say we had no idea what her character really was. The fandom made up her character based on a few facial expressions and just one line of dialogue. “Luna eclipsed” didn’t change her character, she didn’t really have one before that episode. So there was no progression to be shown. Although a few episodes centered around culture shock would have been great.
 
As for Twilicorn, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Although I will agree that “Magical Mystery Cure” felt like a bullet train in terms of pacing. But then again, packing a finale in just one episode is kinda impossible.
Draco_2k

I would have to disagree about Twilicorn not having a build up, it was something a lot of fans could see coming.
 
I couldn’t disagree more.
 
But then again, anything that changes drastically a character will be met with drama. Remember the sh*tstorm when “Luna Eclipsed” gave us a clearer understanding of Luna?
 
Bingo!
 
Making sweeping changes to established characters is, generally speaking, a horrible idea. OOC is a big deal.
 
That’s not to say you can’t change something. In fact, as a good writer, you should. Keeps things fresh. Keeps things fun and believable. It’s just that the change needs to be a logical progression, rather than sudden and inexplicable: it’s “character development”, not “character schizophrenia”.
 
Think of how much would the show gain if we’ve seen progression from the meek and defeated Luna to the archaic and higher-than-thou Luna (haha, “thou”) or the progression from the nerdy antisocial neurotic trainwreck that is Twilight Sparkle to the Goddess of Friendship and Stuff Twilight Sparkle. It’d be awesome.
 
Or they could have faded to black with her and Twilight approaching her old village, her with an unsure frown, Twilight with a supportive smile. Then tackle her changes in season 6.
 
Yeah, like that.
ArmadilloEater

Administrator
French Taunter
@Draco_2k  
I would have to disagree about Twilicorn not having a build up, it was something a lot of fans could see coming. And I think that was the problem: so many pics and fics were created about Twilight becoming an alicorn, it created a solid base of fans that were very much against the very idea, saying that it was impossible and/or dumb. So when it really happened there was a big backlash from those who had already rejected the idea.
 
But then again, anything that changes drastically a character will be met with drama. Remember the sh*tstorm when “Luna Eclipsed” gave us a clearer understanding of Luna? So many headcanons exploding everywhere, salt pouring from the internet, fanfics about her being meek and subdued self combusting…
 
About the writing, I think the end of the episode would have been much better if it had showed Starlight struggling at least a little to adjust to her new vision of friendship. Or they could have faded to black with her and Twilight approaching her old village, her with an unsure frown, Twilight with a supportive smile. Then tackle her changes in season 6. I trust the writers to fix this, like they fixed Twilight instantly knowing how to fly.
Draco_2k

@armadiloeater  
A recurring problem for FiM: dramatic changes and resolutions packed into what is sometimes less than a minute.
 
Also a common mistake for first-time fanfic writers: as a writer you’re compelled to write backwards from epic and heart-felt moments that take maybe seconds in-universe to resolve, but the epicness of that resolution always depends on the strength of the build-up before it. By sacrificing the build-up to the awesome moment you sabotage your own work and don’t even know it because, in your head, it still looks just right.
 
Professional, or even amateur, writers should know better.
 
One of the reasons people were slightly upset about twilicorn, I think: not sewing a pair of wings on her by itself (though that does sound painful), but the lack of any interesting or satisfying or even logical build-up leading to it. Just comes out of nowhere like a firetruck through your wedding. Great idea, but you have to do it right, too.
ArmadilloEater

Administrator
French Taunter
@Princess♠Molestia  
You misunderstand. I said people are mad because of the way she was reformed, not that she was reformed at all. Starlight went from the most dangerous antagonist of the series (yes, most dangerous, since she combined the threat of all the others) into a member of the group of friends we all love, in less than three minutes through a little song and dance.
 
Previous villains had a whole episode for their reformation. You could say that Sunset got a whole movie about her redeeming herself. So yeah, the fact that she’s reformed doesn’t surprise me, but the way it was rushed really bothers me. That’s why I said that I hope to see a few episodes about Starlight’s reformation, where she learns about true friendship gradually, and not become a part of the gang instantly.
 
They already decanonized the ending of the season 3 finale, where Twilight flew around without a problem, with several references to Twilight needing to learn to use her wings during the first EQG movie and the start of season 4. I hope they do the same for Starling instant reformation, and give her a proper character arc.