@Sky_Wolf
If somebody is going to actually give you what you want, it’s the fans. For reasons of their own (lack of influence and/or talent probably), MLP writers do not understand things like character arcs or pacing. The character development or satisfying plot resolutions you crave are not going to be happen. If you don’t like rushed messages of “all that any problem really needed was a friend” on the show, brace yourself because more of it will be coming.
Like @toxic, I think you’re wrong attributing any quality issues to “pandering to the fans”. Most of the stuff they do isn’t anywhere near to what the fans did. Gilda fanfics are leagues better than Griffonstone’s “griffons LITERALLY do not know how to make friends” plot, there are plenty of fics going places with the mane6’s character development, and bg ponies are interesting personalities used to tell stories you coudln’t with just the mane cast. Not everything the fans make is golden but this is a game everyone is allowed to participate in
If you’re going to blame someone, blame the show writers for not being able to do better.
Actually, I’d love to hear what sort of stories you’d want. That’s what fanfics are FOR. To make what the show doesn’t happen.
Honestly, I don’t really expect much from an MLP episode whenever I first watch it. Now, I usually don’t end an episode_thinking_ it was not worth expecting much in the end as a lot of these episodes, especially as the writers have grown and honed their art, have some very surprising, very heartfelt, or just plain great-written moments from what I’ve seen.
I can’t say I share your sentiments about the last two seasons. I honestly think they’re the best ones (and no, not because they’ll reference the brony fandom or some stuff they think the adults would get, or they’ll put some slightly risqué joke in there). I can kinda see why you feel that way, considering the show has changed a bit in style and technique since the first two seasons. (I’d like to think Season 3 wasn’t as good because it was stuck in this transitional period. While other shows and acts might be able to stick it, MLP unfortunately did not.)
I don’t care for the background characters as much as everyone else does, either. They’re essentially community-collective OCs where we try to infer their personality through these slight appearances. However, I won’t decry someone’s OCs simply because they might not have the experience in writing for actual commercial products. Heck, there are several bronies that are great writers in their own right: Weaver, Kilala, Kalash, and many more examples. I understand that’s only a very small part of the fandom who can make these good original characters, as your complaining about some of them being too outlandish to fit in the setting is very valid in this case, considering bronies still want to posit My Little Pony as “the cool thing”, same as those who watch Princess Tutu and they have to compare it to “ninjas with guitars” to show that it’s “cooler” than it actually is, despite that show still being excellent without much of a “coolness factor”, and the only way that can really do that is through those outlandish OCs.
But something to note is that the Mane 6 essentially started out as OCs for Lauren Faust, who has stated she played with the G1 toys as a child and would make up stories surrounding them. And when she grew up, she was able to create more OCs for the shows she worked on. Even if she didn’t have a hand in creating, she was able to add her two cents to flesh out the world. And in the late Noughties, she was finally able to use those OCs of hers from MLP with their personalities and quirks and put them in their own show. But the fact still stands that the Mane 6, and technically all the show’s characters, were a derivative work, coming after three generations of a similar premise being marketed to children.
Honestly, I don’t think we should give OCs all the negative press they receive. We can’t just give them so much trouble because they aren’t actually tied to a company and providing merchandiser for it, because they aren’t actually in the show. The only reason we let the creator’s OCs get away with it is because they’re part of the show, but that doesn’t do anything to hide it, even in wholly original properties. Some characters might not be initially tied to anything, but we still call them OCs anyway. Even if a lot of fan-created OCs are nothing to write home about, that doesn’t mean the show’s OCs are all great either. The reason we even celebrate MLP in the first place is because it averted the trap of the creator-made characters being flat and uninteresting and only meant to be fodder for the toy line. However, there’s a great deal more fans than there are creators, and those fans don’t have all the time in the world to devote to MLP, so obviously, you’re gonna have to work harder to find any actually worthwhile OCs.
And I will say this – fan-created OCs have a distinct advantage: they can go outside the boundaries of the show when the creators cannot. OCs can explore a lot more about a particular setting than the creators ever really could, due to them either not thinking of something like that, or because they’re restricted by the producers from exploring specific things like more intimate, more human relationships or the nature of violence. They can add details, give characters backstories, create histories, show sides of the world, either as a proxy of a side of our own, a twist on that, or even to show that it’s completely different from what we imagined.
And that’s a trait of any fanfiction in general, but it works better for a fan’s OC because trying to mold an existing character to help explain a setting isn’t always the best thing to do, as it can miss the point of what makes the character tick, and trying to change the fundamental rules of the setting itself so they can fit that mold means you aren’t focusing on the show’s setting with the show’s character anymore. An OC can come in and act as a medium to these outer boundaries of the setting, and since the character isn’t predefined, you have a lot more flexibility in how they would function and how they would react in this setting.
For example, say you want to show the military of Equestria. You really have two options here. You can either have an established character join the military or just see what goes on, say…Applejack, and react accordingly, which wouldn’t make much sense considering there really isn’t any reason she would join the military, even in times of war where she’d probably be like Crystal-War!Applejack and produce more food for ponies, and even if there was some way to shoehorn her in, it wouldn’t really feel natural for her to become a part of all that…or you could create an OC with an inside perspective, relationships and bonds with the other members of this facet of the setting, knowledge of its inner workings, et cetera, et cetera. While you could also combine these two perspectives, you’re still gonna need OCs to fill in these roles as the entire population of Ponyville isn’t going to all jump ship to fill in some random battalion. Either way, you’re gonna at least require an OC.
Of course, there’s always the option of derailing a character, but that tends to not go over well in most crowds…
The point is OCs aren’t anything new, they aren’t anything bad, and it covers a much broader field than most people would think. Just thought I’d share my opinions on that.
@Sky_Wolf
I never held you responsible for not liking BGPs in the show mate, all I said is that it’s not really relevant to the show’s quality at all.
and why do you care what the fandom does with them? this is probably one of the few fanbases out there to dedicate so much material for them and have an entire website chocked full of writers and their stories. Like you said here, assuming everything there is of shit quality is a pretty big misstep too, because you can’t quantify every single form of story telling to be the same as the ones you might have read, there’s all sorts of stories in there and out of all of them a good number are pretty good.
if anything, this is less about the show, but you should be a little more grateful to these people who actually bothered with giving life to these characters? Even other mediums such as comics and small shorts gave us all a good laugh more often than not, don’t just bunch everything up in one pot and slap a sticker saying ‘shit’ on top of it.
@toxicitzi
Show quality is what bothers me more than anyone else. From what I saw so far, most people are content with treating MLP just as a show for little girls, they just go along with what is shown on the screen, believe in utopia that is Equestria and don’t analyze or question anything they are shown…
Well, this is not the case for me. I demand far more from it and try seeing MLP as a living and hypothetically existing universe, which means filtering ridiculous bits out and adding some missing links so that the universe looks more like a real thing and less as a bunch of empty husks with teenager intellect running around singing friendship songs and defeating “evil”.
I like to imagine that if you were able to go to space or switch dimensions, MLP would actually exist somewhere out there, you know?
So yeah, excuse me if I don’t like BPs changing from hypothetically real and existing characters that just weren’t shown to us yet to over-blown, stereotypical and one-dimensional extremes of what fandom interpreted them as >_>
@Sky_Wolf
let me just say, in regards to the BGPs, one man’s garbage is another man’s treasure. It’s impossible to evaluate BGPs appeal if that appeal never made it to you and all you want is to be gone all together, that’s the point when this is more about you and much less about the show.
you can dislike it, but that’s really nothing to cry bloody murder about in regards to the show’s actual quality, don’t you think? that’s just something that bothers you more than anyone else.
@Vree
I never even went for high and mighty dude, all I said is just my opinion and nothing more. I don’t like crappy BPs, OCs and predictable cheap comedy with no plot line, what is wrong with that?
Also, first 3 seasons were generally good, except the first 2 pilot episodes that were made by Lauren… good thing she left afterwards because they were crappy as hell. In cartoons I watched, like The Silver Brumby, background characters were done even better than here, and that is not to mention the supporting cast.
MLP is not the first thing to do BPs, you know? Also, writers tend to go overboard and make BPs ridiculous or OP in certain ways (mostly just by implementing worst ideas of fans for the sake of catering to the crowd) instead of doing them as actual average ponies that look like they are having a normal life.
But whatever, we won’t find a solution to us having different views so I propose to just drop this. I said what I wanted to say, so did you. No need to turn this into long and pointless argument.
@Sky_Wolf
Well THAT did not sounds high and mighty at all. :p You implied that only you recognize or want basic stuff. You might descend from that high horse a bit and treat
@Sky_Wolf
This I kinda agree with, but the show has been like this from the start really, only in a few rare episodes was there a glimmer of hope that it could be more. Look at the very first NMM episodes. Is that good writing? Is that how you realistically make friends? No, it’s pure crap.
You might not like BP ponies but they are actually one thing that are good about this show. In the childhood cartoons you mention backgrounds were often a barren wasteland, and BPs in this one go a long way to sell the idea that this world is alive.
@RighteousIndignayshun
That comment wasn’t aimed at you, you know it, right? But okay, at least you are willing to talk so let’s exchange our reasoning/opinions for the sake of knowledge and outside perspective :D
I expected an awesome anniversary episode with high-quality writing and something truly important and memorable happening, that’s what I expected and why I didn’t like the episode from the very first trailer. All I got was a half-assed episode focused completely on ponies I don’t care about and built in a way that favours quantity and colorful picture with as many characters in it over quality and believable content (or in other words, created to cater to majority). Plus I really dislike all BPs, OCs and all that stuff since they tend to be boring or OP or any other combination of negative traits.
Events like movable turntable that goes through town with everyone on board really piss me off. I know it is supposed to be comedic but I never liked comedy as a standalone genre. It is nice to have bits of it thrown in to spice up the plot line, but when there is no plot line to begin with and everything is just all-around cheap comedy… let’s just say that I strongly dislike it.
Also, I indeed care little about other people but that’s not because I think I am the only developed person on the planet with real personality, on the contrary, IRL I have ego problems in the side of underappreciating myself… It’s just that I don’t usually have time, energy or intention to care about clerks and other 1.8 million people in my city. Call me an emotionless jerk, but I could care less about emotions most of the time and then it becomes simply a matter of waste of time and memory on something that is unlikely to be useful in the future… And unfortunately I do have bad memory.
That being said, you described your point really well and there might be something to it… If only the episode was less ridiculous and more believable to truly portray these side-stories in the way they should be =\
@Scrounge
Looks like we watch the show for different reasons then. I don’t watch it for escapism/childish utopia or cheap drama, nor because it is popular. I watch it for the well-developed universe and realistic mechanics as I come to like the main cast and love to engineer scenarios with them in my head. So obviously when the universe desides to disregard real logic or beliavabness I won’t like it as it deteriorates the quality of it and makes it impossible to combine our world with theirs. It is totally okay to have different opinions though, cowardy escapism or not.
@Scrounge
yes, because you never see people getting away with horrific actions because they have the right friends in the real world. /End sarcasm mode
You know what? This may have been said, but I’ll say it again anyhow
The forgiveness that the Mane Six (especially Twilight) show to Starlight Glimmer is better than she deserves by several orders of magnitude… And I think that’s why I found myself enjoying it. It was cute and it was optimistic and it’s just so nice to get away from the real world, you know?
If you mean the background characters, then, well, their personalities weren’t ever really defined in the series proper, was it? If you’re talking about the established characters, well…
• Mane 6 fighting something – it’s not something they would usually do, and I’d think they’d want to shy away from it, but in a Doylist point of view, it a) keeps those characters occupied and out of the stories we’re following, b) going back to a Watsonian point of view, they knew about the wedding (if not all the Mane 6 to begin with, then Pinkie Pie certainly; plus they were trying to get into town hall at the end of the episode when the wedding started) and were probably doing their part to at least make sure everything went as planned, and c) they’re probably the ones most fit to taking out this sort of beast in the first place.
• The Princesses and Shining Armor - Assuming, of course, that they didn’t just get there and most likely missing the bugbear, these four were really only featured for a couple of gags. MLP, while it dabbles in drama, is mostly a slice-of-life comedy, and comedies are known to break some established rules, including slight “OOC moments” for the sake of a gag.
• Steven Magnet - I’ll admit, I didn’t like him when he said “the wedding was everything,” and it seemed a bit contrived that he knew Cranky…somehow. Just one of maybe a few problems I have with the episode; it could have done without Steven Magnet, or he could have been implemented better.
“being shown boring nonsense with characters I don’t care about when all the action happens off-screen”
Hey, your tastes. I don’t expect a lot of action in My Little Pony; it’s a show meant to target little girls and their parents, and the bronies were just an added (and very prominent and profitable) bonus for Hasbro. They can make references and have some tense action here or there, but the main focus of the show is on building relationships with others. It’s what the plots focus on, it’s what the morals focus on; the ultimate magic’s literally powered by friendship, after all.
…oh, and since this was reported ahead of time as being about the background ponies, what exactly were you expecting?
“alicorns and rulers of different lands come down to a village for a donkey wedding”
Why not? It’s a big-ish event, and it’s good for royals to catch a break after doing…
…okay, you may have me there. Ah, oh, well. They showed up, played their part, and for that, I was happy. I don’t expect everything to make pitch-perfect absolute sense because hey, that’s how life is sometimes. What can I do to get money? I know! Instead of using some basic skills I’ve acquired in my many years of education to get a steady paycheck each week, I’ll instead rob someone of their money and their life and possibly land me in jail for the rest of my life! Doesn’t that make sense?
“all characters being ridiculously one-dimensional, stereotypical, and downright boring”
Again, I disagree. While I understand focusing on several characters at one cuts down on the time for key character developing moments, I’d say there was at least some dimension to most of the characters presented. Derpy Muffins (which I think is a cuter name), while clumsy and sometimes scatter-brained, still remains determined and adamant in fixing things. Octavia and Vinyl seem to have a sibling/“like sisters” dynamic going on. The Doctor is more than just a walking reference, being more grounded than the human counterpart he apparently had, but also not very good at improvising, so to say, when he’s out of his element.
There’s probably more (or less) there, but another thing is that a character doesn’t have to be fully three-dimensional to be likeable or fun. You can just give a character a base personality and see how they would react in different situations. If a monster were to come by, would they run? Would they stand by the group, stay in front, or hide behind the meat-shield, teeth chattering in fright? If someone wanted them to try a new food, would they turn it down because of the smell? Would they grin and bear it, or feign eating it and spit it off to the side? Or would they try it, either to please their host or just because they might like it?
Just as long as their actions make sense with their character and they can move the story along by those actions, you got yourself at least a semi-enjoyable character in my book.
“everyone forgetting and outright ignoring the ponies who saved their lives while they were busy doing absolutely irrelevant things…”
That…wasn’t really the point of the episode. The episode was meant to give the background characters some screen time, to show Equestria’s more mundane side through these interconnected vignettes. Heck, there’s even some not-so-mundanities thrown in as well as a quick outside perspective on the Mane 6’s antics. While I understand the Mane 6 mostly lead normal lives themselves, there are some moments sprinkled within theirs that are pretty extraordinaryif it would happen to any of us.
“all ponies have their own story? All I saw a bunch of empty husks doing stupid stereotypical stuff in the most unbelievable of ways”
Would you be that guy who doesn’t give two cahoots about the cashier at the grocery store? ‘cause you kinda strike me as that guy.
You might not think about it, but in every person you see, there’s a story that they live through and share with others. And heck, they might think the same thing about them that they do you.
To you, they’re that stupid barista at the local Starbucks who always misspells your name. To them, you’re the guy who won’t stop yelling at them just because your name’s misspelled in their registry.
But after he gets off of work, he goes home to his girlfriend, who works part-time as a librarian, and feeds his dog, does the laundry, probably watches a few episodes of his favorite show on Netflix, and heads off to bed to repeat it all over again the next day. Only this time, you notify him ahead of time how your name’s spelt, and he sees to it your entry in the registry is updated to set it right. You get your cup of coffee, finally able to relax without being embarrassed about something like that.
He starts off his day a little happier than usual as well, and though he soon settles into those standard doldrums as the day moves on, the next day feels all the better because of it. You get coffee, and he gets money. Simple as that.
A few days after that, he gets a phone call from his mom. Dad finally got that surgery he needed, and in a fit of excited celebration, he and his girlfriend head over to St. Louis that night to visit him.
The next day, that barista isn’t there to give you your coffee or write your name on it. You got to admit, the other guy had good penmanship. This guy’s got chicken scratch. You look up, and you see he’s even got a little chicken beard. Then, you hear yelling. “Where the hell’s Yorick?!” Was that his name? Maybe it was.
Over the next few days, you only see this Yorick fellow one last time. He comes in, then heads right back out. You don’t know exactly what happened, but when you ask the chicken man, he says something like, “Oh, Yorick? Yea, he had a habit a’skippin’ outta work. Sucks for him.”
You tell him thank you…and to maybe work on his handwriting a little more…
And I know, yea, that’s real life. You can’t control everything, you can’t see everything, but with a show, you can. But even if the writers can control everything, they are also in charge of maintaining focus, pacing, and story, and wasting that focus on any given episode to develop a semi-reccuring background character would be pointless unless it’s foreshadowing for later. However, with so much focus on the Mane 6 and their sometimes world-rending adventures, it’s nice to see a change in pace. A wedding, despite all the crazy antics the ponies go through to get there, is still a mundane thing that most of us encounter in our lives. The hectic struggle to have everything prepared and ready is something everyone’s seen somewhere in their life, and it’s moments like those that can connect us, these similar experiences that can take seemingly different individuals and bring them together.
And suddenly, you care. You want that barista back. He might not have misspelled your name on the first few hundred coffee cups he delivered, but he didn’t give you any lip about it. Your stories have intertwined, even for the briefest of moments.
It wasn’t that these were particularly fleshed out characters or maybe even extremely memorable and interesting, but they showed some other sides to Ponyville, besides all the relationship drama the Mane 6 go through. Even if it wasn’t the most satisfying ot really groundbreaking of episodes, it was still an enjoyable ride through Ponyville and the loves of its people.
@atalarikt
I got my badge a week ago in a discussion about vore with a user who is even worse than me, thank you very much. Also, I claimed to be a brony no more only about 2 times in the past, right after 100-th episode, and I’m doing it now because I’ve just got unbanned from the duck encounter and have stuff to say about 100-th episode.
BTW, nice attempt at stereotyping there to disprove points of another person by blatant ignoring and omission instead of actually answering or refuting them. Right when I said I was willing to drop it too. I find this defensive mechanism particularly interesting.
@Background Pony #2A82
By episode spoilers from Derpi, duuh. If I don’t see any OP/OOC stuff and see cute/awesome Dash screenshots I might watch it =P
Or if it has suggestive/lewd stuff in it, there are many criteria but I never trust the word of bronies/majority without checking it myself.
alicorns and townsponies doing stupid stuff while certain others are fighting to the death to protect them,
being shown boring nonsense with characters I don’t care about in the slightest while the actual action is going off-screen,
alicorns and rulers of a different empire coming down to a village for a donkey wedding,
all characters being ridiculously one-dimensional, stereotypical and downright boring,
everyone forgetting and outright ignoring the ponies who saved their lives while they were busy doing absolutely irrelevant things…
all ponies have their own story? All I saw a bunch of empty husks doing stupid stereotypical stuff in the most unbelievable of ways.
But yea, in the end it is just a matter of tastes.
This being said, let’s just drop it at this, I don’t want another flame war. I know that definition of fandom implies people are biased and can’t judge the content appropriately. This happens to hyped games, hyped movies, hyped persons, hyped ponies, etc. This here is no exception.
