Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

Zincy
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In Vino Veritas
I have no qualms nor fears in saying that if any ex-president ever tries to stay in after being voted out, or after their 8 years have passed, I would hope that a kindly Marine, SEAl, or CIA agent would introduce said ex-pres to an American made firearm.
Dustcan
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@Violet Rose in The Rain
When it comes to socialism, your simply swapping one wealthy corporate elite for another wealthy political elite. Think about it, rather it be through corporate means or taxes(Which socialism relies on), you’re still giving your money away to someone.
 
Which is why nobody’s advocating for anarchy. To oversimplify, people are tired of the current system increasingly handing the keys to the country over to corporations who are only accountable to their profit margins. Instead people are wanting a return/shift to the keys being held by the group who (on paper…which is still a sight more than corporations) have to be held accountable to the many (even if during re-election…which, again, is still a sight more accountability than corporations get).
Background Pony #2F82
@Dustcan  
Never said anything for anarchy, if anything I’m advocating for a balance between the people and government(In which case socialism would give too much power to the government). which group are you talking about specifically?
Dustcan
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@Background Pony #89DB
 
The Bernie Bro “Democratic Socialists”, the people who are also advocating more for a balance as well. A system like the Denmark or Norway or…most of Europe really.
 

 
In other news, Trump is now saying if he’s not re-elected there will be a stock market crash.
 
So basically someone must’ve said “stock market crash” in his presence and that became the one thing his peanut brain could think of for the day.
Background Pony #2F82
@Dustcan  
I’d rather not advocate for something that’s like of those features in Europe if some of the shit that has happened in Britain is any indication(Like someone being denied healthcare just because a family member of theirs has different opinions that disagree with those in power). I don’t trust shit like that, “Free Healthcare” Isn’t free, you just pay for it in taxes and give the government more leverage over you!
 
Sorry for that, I just really distrust socialist elements like that and the stupid shit that can happen because of it really pisses me off.
Background Pony #2F82
@Zincy  
It’s happened in Britain, most likely because of all of the political turmoil going on, though how do you know it hasn’t happened in any of the Scandinavian countries? Either way, I wouldn’t look at them as role models as their situation is different from ours and they certainly aren’t a “Socialist Paradise”, in case if any of you believe that myth, not to mention their taxes are very high because if those socialist elements, and we know how much Americans hate taxes.
Zincy
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In Vino Veritas
@Background Pony #89DB
 
Elevated taxes, but similar costs of living with an overall higher standard of living. So, the tax burden isn’t enough to negatively impact their overall health, wealth, and happiness standards.
 
Taxes are fine if they go to something useful as opposed to just frittered away in a bureaucratic maze.
 
I’d rather pay a slightly elevated tax rate if it mean my overall standard of living increased.
 
I lived in Sweden for a time. I found it rather pleasant.
Mikey
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@Background Pony #89DB  
Well I know one thing, our healthcare is among the worst in any first world country, and that’s a fact. It doesn’t help that monopolies on private healthcare are allowed to exist and we should stamp them out but “government regulation is bad” according to some people. So we can A) go with socialist healthcare, B) regulate private industries and ban mergers and buyouts so monopolies don’t happen, or C) keep the system we have and make Americans keep paying outrageous premiums for healthcare.
Background Pony #2F82
@Zincy  
Was that in a rural or city area though? Perhaps people who live in cities can afford to pay higher taxes, but what about those who have a more rural lifestyle and those that are poorer than you? How do higher taxes translate to them?
Background Pony #2F82
@Mikey  
B sounds like a better option, at least out of the options your offering. I’m definitely against Monopolies, just like how railroad monopolies were banned in the 1800s(Or whatever happened to them, I don’t quite remember) Healthcare monopolies should be banned so that way if a company is selling bad healthcare you can always find a company who’s selling better and/or cheaper healthcare.
Zincy
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In Vino Veritas
@Background Pony #89DB
 
Some time in Stockholm, some time in Uppsala. Was there for school.
 
Sweden has a variable tax rate per province, but most folk pay the same. They have lower unemployment, lower poverty rates, and lower homelessness.
 
 
I’m not saying Sweden, or any Nordic country is perfect. Just that some of their principles should not be overlooked merely because of some political buzzword.
 
Every country is different, but we can learn from each other.
Mikey
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Ayriana
@Background Pony #89DB  
It would be the best option given the size of our population. The issue is that people exist in the government who approve of monopolies. Take the cell market. Ajit Pai basically approved of TMobile and Sprint merging. People praised him for removing net neutrality because it’s government regulation. And then he does things like this and people don’t realize he’s a corrupt lackey for Verizon.
Background Pony #2F82
@Zincy  
Yeah, I just distrust socialism and elements of it with how much socialism itself has failed, not to mention with all of the false narratives going on.
Background Pony #2F82
@Mikey  
Yeah, and it’s definitely being overshadowed by all of the other political turmoil going on
Zincy
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In Vino Veritas
@Background Pony #89DB
 
Capitalism has a lot of skeletons in its closet too. The working poor, wage slaving, cronyism, etc.
 
Capitalism is no more the shining beacon on the hill than Socialism is. I’ve worked with plenty of people here in the US that capitalism left behind.
 
In the end, no single system is a one-size-fits-all.
Background Pony #137C
@Zincy  
Capitalism itself is like fire, neither good nor bad. In the right hands, it can bring prosperity to the masses but in the wrong hands…well we’ve all read about the Gilded Age.
 
Same with Socialism I think. It all depends on who’s hands it’s in
Zincy
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In Vino Veritas
@Background Pony #DAE2
 
I prefer a vaguely capitalistic form of technocracy where individual determination is protected within a mostly capitalist framework, but the ruling caste is made up of the best and brightest of whatever position in society they represent. Scientists making science decisions, doctors making medical, etc, etc.
Zincy
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In Vino Veritas
I’ve actually crafted a dumb idea for a form of government that I have no idea if it would work.
Background Pony #137C
@Zincy  
Or just make politicians and CEOs take tests about the general knowledge of their field. I mean it makes sense, could you imagine if we had Gary Johnson as president and he didn’t even know what Aleppo was?
Dustcan
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Dogs
@Background Pony #DAE2
 
I give Gary Johnson some slack there since it’s unfeasible to know what the capital of most rando nations off the top of your head. Sure, Syria is a fairly big topic in politics, and one would like for a presidential hopeful to have an encyclopedic knowledge of all things politics, but nowadays that feels like a gotcha question.
 
I mean, Venezuela is a favorite buzzword nowadays. The Trump administration (John Bolton in particular) are in a sweaty desperation to get our troops killed fighting it, but can anyone here name its capital without resorting to Google? Or Iran for that matter, another frequent topic on the news?
Violet Rose in The Rain
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your simply swapping one wealthy corporate elite for another wealthy political elite.
 
Are you arguing in bad faith or do you legitimately not realise wealth means almost nothing in a socialist society?  
is an already built-in system that can be improved on and made better for all of us,
 
Yes, as evidenced by Comcast’s fuckers, Amazon screwing their workers over and six conglomerates owning a majority of companies in Europe, as well as the widening rich-poor gap, everybody’s so willing to improve on the system.
Violet Rose in The Rain
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).
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Like someone being denied healthcare just because a family member of theirs has different opinions that disagree with those in power).
 
Yeah, it’s not like people in the US can deny healthcare for any reason either; you’d have to ask Tyra Hunter about that one.  
Perhaps people who live in cities can afford to pay higher taxes, but what about those who have a more rural lifestyle and those that are poorer than you? How do higher taxes translate to them?
 
I want to ask if “Higher taxes for richer people and lower taxes and more subsidies for poorer people” is an alien concept to you.
Background Pony #2F82
Are you arguing in bad faith or do you legitimately not realise wealth means almost nothing in a socialist society?
 
Do I need to remind you about the Soviet Union and Maoist China?  
Yes, as evidenced by Comcast’s fuckers, Amazon screwing their workers over and six conglomerates owning a majority of companies in Europe, as well as the widening rich-poor gap, everybody’s so willing to improve on the system.
 
And yet it can still improve. You may as well say Medieval/Dark age Europe was hopeless with how barbaric it was, and yet it improved.
 
Just because bad things are happening involving capitalism right now doesn’t mean it can’t improve. After all, Why abandon something good when it can be fixed? Capitalism has lifted many people out of poverty and the average American eats better than a king. Out of all other systems, Capitalism has done the best so far. Of course it isn’t perfect, but it can still be improved none the less.  
Yeah, it’s not like people in the US can deny healthcare for any reason either; you’d have to ask Tyra Hunter about that one.
 
Either way, Giving the government power over our healthcare would give them too much leverage over us. If you were to ban Healthcare Monopolies and have many healthcare companies, if one company where to deny you it you could always find a better company with better healthcare.  
I want to ask if “Higher taxes for richer people and lower taxes and more subsidies for poorer people” is an alien concept to you.
 
Do you understand what happens when you tax the rich too much though? They simply leave to a country that won’t tax them too much. You know that’s called when it happens to a country? It’s called a ““Brain Drain[](https://www.thoughtco.com/brain-drain-1435769)
 
“Brain drain refers to the emigration (out-migration) of knowledgeable, well-educated, and skilled professionals from their home country to another country. This can take place because of several factors. The most obvious is the availability of better job opportunities in the new country. Other factors that can cause brain drain include: war or conflict, health risks, and political instability.” Or is the case of socialist Elements, Too Harsh Taxes
 
“The country that experiences brain drain suffers a loss. In LDCs, this phenomenon is much more common and the loss is much more substantial. LDCs generally do not have the ability to support growing industry and the need for better research facilities, career advancement, and salary increases. There is an economic loss in the possible capital that the professionals may have been able to bring in, a loss in advancement and development when all of the educated individuals use their knowledge to benefit a country other than their own, and a loss of education when educated individuals leave without assisting in the education of the next generation.
 
There is also a loss that occurs in MDCs, but this loss is less substantial because MDCs generally see an emigration of these educated professionals as well as an immigration of other educated professionals.”  
And if Harsh Taxes on the rich would be implemented, We certainly wouldn’t be encouraging many educated professionals to come to our country. I’d suggest checking out the link, it has good info.
 
While I don’t really like socialism whatsoever, I’ll stay open-minded. Maybe some elements of socialism can work, maybe not, We’ll have to see.
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