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Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

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DarkObsidian
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(cough) So first of all I would like to clarify that the Antifa certainly has nothing to do with the German Nazis of the Third Reich. They are not protesting against them either, but against the modern right, i. e. the Neo-Nazis. This may sound like hair-splitting, but it’s important.
 
Why do I say that? The reason why the Third Reich led the Second World War at that time, as a result of which millions lost their lives, is different from how Neo-Nazis represent their racist ideologies today. Hate must not and should not be represented in this form. This is ridiculous. Moreover, modern neo-Nazis have no political concept at all except that everyone else is to blame, except us.
 
The mistake of Antifa is that it answers hate with hate. And that’s just as stupid, if notworse. I categorically reject the methods of Antifa. Not because I support Neo-Nazis, but because I consider it pointless to go to the same (senseless) level as my opponent.
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AaronMk
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@DarkObsidian  
The mistake of Antifa is that it answers hate with hate. And that’s just as stupid, if notworse. I categorically reject the methods of Antifa. Not because I support Neo-Nazis, but because I consider it pointless to go to the same (senseless) level as my opponent.
 
Not really, this is an over simplified take on what they do. Much of the time it’s muck more quiet and under the radar, or under the radar because the major media outlets don’t give a shit. If resisting fascism was as simple as showing up to negate the message of the fascists then sure, but it’s not really as much.
 
AntiFascist groups like Hope not Hate have for example infiltrated far-right groups on year-long missions to identify members, who they’re talking to, what their plans are, and how they intend to carry things out. AntiFascist activity is also that which curtails the base on which fascism feeds on and often the Anarchist wing of the organization shares its membership with the same sort of people who patch holes in roads because the city government won’t do shit or more importantly, take over unused mansions owned by Russian oligarchs to use as a homeless shelter and community center to provide assistance to those in need. Or even providing a pipeline to get people out of white nationalist/far-right organizations.
 
In a more Direct Action sense, they’re mission often too extends to areas beyond directly fighting. Whether it be the tracking of known fascists or organizing with local unions to curtail and make more difficult the ability to use public services to organize fascist demonstrations. Browsing the Maryland AntiFa FB page there’s plenty of news posts, memorials, and even one putting out information on what phone numbers to know if you get arrested by any police in a specific city during a specific protest; Unite the Right 2 being first among it. The Great Lakes AntiFa page includes directions and a calendar of events of other issues they might support let alone resist.
 
Even though these are large regional looking organizations, they’re nothing more than a collection of other groups. Fundamentally AntiFa isn’t an organization at all and more an idea of, “Resisting fascism by any means”.
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HeadlessHorselessHorseman

@AaronMk  
@HeadlessHorselessHorseman
@AaronMk
Oh yeah, that post. “Accidents happen” and “they’re insured” aren’t acceptable excuses to me unless stand-your-ground is an acceptable excuse to you.
I feel like you read only the beginning, concluded that was all, and stopped. Really at the end of the day: in a big crowd situation of intense moods anything can and will happen and within AntiFa itself there are people who go about to keep things from escalating too far. But add thousands to it and if there’s too little and of the situation changes beyond anyone’s control just through simple crowd dynamics then that itself can’t stop it.
At the end stand-your-ground is a false equivelance situation since it’s taking any of the particular unique properties into account between single actors and a mass of them in competition.
It would be closer to compare it to a soccer or sports riot, which everyone seems to care less about. Which whether in celebration or anger can still result in smashed windows and torched garbage cans.
 
If you oppose the death penalty at least partly because innocent people can be executed, I don’t see how you can be so indifferent to the idea of something going wrong during a protest. And for the record, I don’t think much of sports riots, either.
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AaronMk
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@HeadlessHorselessHorseman  
@AaronMk
@HeadlessHorselessHorseman
@AaronMk
Oh yeah, that post. “Accidents happen” and “they’re insured” aren’t acceptable excuses to me unless stand-your-ground is an acceptable excuse to you.
I feel like you read only the beginning, concluded that was all, and stopped. Really at the end of the day: in a big crowd situation of intense moods anything can and will happen and within AntiFa itself there are people who go about to keep things from escalating too far. But add thousands to it and if there’s too little and of the situation changes beyond anyone’s control just through simple crowd dynamics then that itself can’t stop it.
At the end stand-your-ground is a false equivelance situation since it’s taking any of the particular unique properties into account between single actors and a mass of them in competition.
It would be closer to compare it to a soccer or sports riot, which everyone seems to care less about. Which whether in celebration or anger can still result in smashed windows and torched garbage cans.
If you oppose the death penalty at least partly because innocent people can be executed, I don’t see how you can be so indifferent to the idea of something going wrong during a protest. And for the record, I don’t think much of sports riots, either.
 
How does this really matter at all.
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neutralgrey
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@AaronMk  
….am I the only one more curious as to why a Russian Oligarch bought an empty mansion? I mean I assume he didn’t have any maids or butlers in it to maintain the mansion so it was probably full of dust. Why do I have the sinking suspension this is a part of some sort of illegal activity?
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HeadlessHorselessHorseman

@AaronMk  
@HeadlessHorselessHorseman
@AaronMk
@HeadlessHorselessHorseman
@AaronMk
Oh yeah, that post. “Accidents happen” and “they’re insured” aren’t acceptable excuses to me unless stand-your-ground is an acceptable excuse to you.
I feel like you read only the beginning, concluded that was all, and stopped. Really at the end of the day: in a big crowd situation of intense moods anything can and will happen and within AntiFa itself there are people who go about to keep things from escalating too far. But add thousands to it and if there’s too little and of the situation changes beyond anyone’s control just through simple crowd dynamics then that itself can’t stop it.
At the end stand-your-ground is a false equivelance situation since it’s taking any of the particular unique properties into account between single actors and a mass of them in competition.
It would be closer to compare it to a soccer or sports riot, which everyone seems to care less about. Which whether in celebration or anger can still result in smashed windows and torched garbage cans.
If you oppose the death penalty at least partly because innocent people can be executed, I don’t see how you can be so indifferent to the idea of something going wrong during a protest. And for the record, I don’t think much of sports riots, either.
How does this really matter at all.
 
It matters because you seem to have a double standard. So either explain why you don’t, or just say, “Yeah, I have a double standard. So what?”.
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AaronMk
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@neutralgrey  
@AaronMk
….am I the only one more curious as to why a Russian Oligarch bought an empty mansion? I mean I assume he didn’t have any maids or butlers in it to maintain the mansion so it was probably full of dust. Why do I have the sinking suspension this is a part of some sort of illegal activity?
 
Gotta dump that money somewhere as a liquid asset that can be written off and kept hidden away from taxes. Or as similar real-estate developers from out of country do here in Detroit: buy up all those empty houses and hold onto them because they can only increase in value and they can turn a buck on real-estate futures.
 
 
@HeadlessHorselessHorseman
 
No, not really. Because you’re drawing false equivelance between a complex social situation as a protest and something different, and moving the goal posts. You’re playing a great big whataboutism to avoid engaging on the topic at hand.
 
I don’t know why I even try with you though. If I’m remembering right you say the Boston Tea Party was wrong and basically every historical condition leading to the present moment is bad because no one was MLK - who might I remind us relied on an armed militia to defend his marches and to keep them to places like Selma - and as such even if I do lay out actual reasons and argument, you’ll just fall back into this bullshit. You’re the end of conversation. So I’m drawing the line here until you actually present real shit.
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@HeadlessHorselessHorseman  
It’s not merely a question of miscarried justice. Such miscarriages are indeed and tragically inevitable. The question is whether they do any irreparable harm. Certainly property damage is not irreparable, unless it is done to an object of historic significance. Bodily harm can go either way. But death is indisputably permanent, unless one happens to be a 13th level cleric. And if antifa has killed anyone, innocent or otherwise, then I will be first in line to condemn them for it, as certainly as if Hitler himself had done the deed.
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HeadlessHorselessHorseman

@Background Human  
Okay, so are you saying that bodily harm, and some form of property damage, can be irreparable? Because if that’s the case, AaronMK seems not to care that much if someone innocent does get hurt even irreparably. “The terrorists hide behind civilians and make themselves look innocuous, so it’s not our fault if something goes wrong.”
 
 
@AaronMk  
@HeadlessHorselessHorseman
No, not really. Because you’re drawing false equivelance between a complex social situation as a protest and something different, and moving the goal posts. You’re playing a great big whataboutism to avoid engaging on the topic at hand.
I don’t know why I even try with you though. If I’m remembering right you say the Boston Tea Party was wrong and basically every historical condition leading to the present moment is bad because no one was MLK
 
I’m pretty sure that’s not quite what I said, no. What I take objection to is the idea that you can use historical conditions or events as leverage for an argument. “The Boston Tea Party happened and led to the creation of this country, therefore it is good, and similar actions in the modern day must also be seen as good”.
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CHS, Class of 20XX
@HeadlessHorselessHorseman  
Yeah. If you destroy a priceless painting or paralyze someone from the waist down, there’s generally no fixing that. Most riots don’t do that kind of damage, but let’s not pretend it isn’t possible. Like that guy with the bike lock: it was basically pure luck that he didn’t kill or maim anyone swinging that thing.
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lonewolf
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U mad?
Like several years ago in Britain when the chavs were rioting. They burned down and destroyed a furniture store that had survived getting bombed in both world wars. It applies to historical buildings too.
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@Lord Hypno  
Misguided by whom? They made the choice to be reprehensible; nobody else.
 
Being ‘misguided’ is not an excuse to go around assaulting people. They’re the thought police is what they are.
 
Screw Antifa. I hope every single person they assault puts one right between their eyes.  
@Dustcan  
Fat Brown Buffalo.
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@Jarkes  
It’s not twitter’s job to go around banning people for ‘harassment’. That’s dumb. If you don’t want to listen to someone you block them or mute them; what’s so hard about that?
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@Background Human  
It’s not pedantic. They’re not Nazis. Period. Even if they were, that doesn’t give you the right to assault them; because they haven’t actually DONE anything yet.
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