Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

Cyborg_pony
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@Commune  
The truth hurts, doesn’t it?
 
Is that why you demand a “revolution” so everyone has to live in a dystopia squaller?
 
Here we have an actual anarco-commuinist place and the anarco-communist doesn’t want to live there.
 
Just want your cake and eat it to.
Valerie Shimmerwing
Wallet After Summer Sale -

@Mike  
To quote Anarchism:
 
1.1 Political Anarchism  
Anarchism is primarily understood as a skeptical theory of political legitimation. The term anarchism is derived from the negation of the Greek term arché, which means first principle, foundation, or ruling power. Anarchy is thus rule by no one or non-rule. Some argue that non-ruling occurs when there is rule by all—with consensus or unanimity providing an optimistic goal (see Depuis-Déri 2010).
 
Political anarchists focus their critique on state power, viewing centralized, monopolistic coercive power as illegitimate. Anarchists thus criticize “the state”. Bakunin provides a paradigm historical example, saying:
 
If there is a State, there must be domination of one class by another and, as a result, slavery; the State without slavery is unthinkable—and this is why we are the enemies of the State. (Bakunin 1873 [1990: 178])
 
A more recent example comes from Gerard Casey who writes, “states are criminal organizations. All states, not just the obviously totalitarian or repressive ones” (Casey 2012: 1).
 
Such sweeping generalizations are difficult to support. Thus anarchism as political philosophy faces the challenge of specificity. States have been organized in various ways. Political power is not monolithic. Sovereignty is a complicated matter that includes divisions and distributions of power (see Fiala 2015). Moreover, the historical and ideological context of a given anarchist’s critique makes a difference in the content of the political anarchist’s critique. Bakunin was responding primarily to a Marxist and Hegelian view of the state, offering his critique from within the global socialist movement; Casey is writing in the Twenty-First Century in the era of liberalism and globalization, offering his critique from within the movement of contemporary libertarianism. Some anarchists engage in broad generalizations, aiming for a total critique of political power. Others will present a localized critique of a given political entity. An ongoing challenge for those who would seek to understand anarchism is to realize how historically and ideologically diverse approaches fit under the general anarchist umbrella.  

 
How do you know more people won’t stoop to thievery if there were no laws? Or murder, or what have you.
 
There are laws. In anarchist communism, it’s the laws of the groups and federations.  
People have no ethics by nature.
 
Sure, humans, nor any animal for that matter, did not start off with a moral code, but as time goes on, strategies of survival became more complex as they became moral codes for groups to firmly adopt and pit against all other strategies, which are called evolutionarily stable strategies (ESS), represented mathematically as, letting E(T, S) be the payoff of pitting strategy S against another strategy T and T =/= S,
 
E(S, S) > or = E(T, S).
Cyborg_pony
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@Fluttershy Studios  
The definition is: A state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority.
 
How can you say you want Anarchy, but then put Laws in place for others to have to follow.
 
Basically, it’s just “Everything will turn out right if I’m in charge! I’m am pure” says the anarco preacher.
 
Again, go live in Slab city for a year. See how you really like anarchy.
neutralgrey
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@igotnopicks  
I never understood the whole, “disrespecting the flag” argument. To me, this whole “disrespecting the flag” argument has less to do with being unamerican and more to do with simply breaking a cultural taboo. If you don’t honor the flag by singing and or standing for some pledge or something you’re not guilty of disrespecting what America stands for (stuff like what’s written in the constitution), you’re just guilty of not following a tradition. It’s the old “My dad did it, and his dad did it, so you have to do it too!” BS.
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@Commune
 
And despite his assertions had a level of civil order behind it. All power WAS to the Soviets, who organized around direct delegations elected to their role by the local villages, urban unions, or the militia itself. It laws, and it had the capacity to carry out the law. The difference between their use of the law and ours, or the contemporary political groups of Russia at the time was that by virtue the people were the direct font of that law.
 
Lenin was pretty chill with them. Trotsky wasn’t.
Valerie Shimmerwing
Wallet After Summer Sale -

@Cyborg_pony  
Well, that just has no order at all. That there are no groups, no federations, no regulatory body, makes that “city” not fitting the qualifications of being anarchist communist, but really, what makes Sargon of Akkad’s video unreliable is he doesn’t refer to any text about anarchist communism and just says that Slab City is anarchist communist.
Cyborg_pony
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@Commune  
They say it’s anarchy. Is this just another “Not real communism” that just happens to be whenever it’s implemented to unfavorable degrees.
 
You sit there and talk such a big game, but when you see what you to talk about you shy away from it.
 
Prove prove your salt and live in an arachy you want to much. Slab city’s right there just waintin’ for ya. You anarchy paradise. Oh right, you don’t want real anarchy. You want rules to benefit certain people.
 
You can’t have laws in anarchy. That’s not how it’s going to work. You just want to tell people what they can in can’t do, and guess what that is; The state you claim to hate so much.
 
Hold on a sec, isn’t having laws for some, but not all a type of class privilege? That sounds a lot like the proletariat and bourgeoisie, and we all know what happens to those privileged bourgeoisie.
 
It would seem; You’re not a true communist.
Cyborg_pony
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@Fluttershy Studios  
You’re just saying it’s not the way you imagine it, so it can’t be. Well, it is. You can’t pick and choice. Your definition can’t save you from reality.
 
Anarchy is not the glorious utopia you dream about it being. It’s a slum, where the people wallow in their own filth. They don’t have to do anything, so they don’t and they gate off their property Not every communist from the others.
Valerie Shimmerwing
Wallet After Summer Sale -

@Cyborg_pony  
Except the USA is federalist in that it has a federal government and state governments, so how can you account for that? As I have said, anarchist communism is federalism with mutualist principles in that there is a federation of federations of groups. The definition of anarchism I gave is what I use, but not what you gave that you are asserting as the actual definition, which is a logical fallacy.
 
And furthermore, Sargon of Akkad did not justify his naming of Slab City as anarchist communist.
Cyborg_pony
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@Fluttershy Studios  
You do realize, if you get your wish and create anarchy for the entre country, the richest people will just amass mercenaries to turn anyone that doesn’t okay them into their salve workers.
 
by that time, your definitions wont be much good.
 
You wont be the lawmaker. They will, and if you don’t like it. In to the ditch wit the rest of the rabble-rousers you go. What you suggest will cost millions their freedom, all for some pipedream fantasy you insist will exist if it’s just done your way.
 
Communism has never worked. There will always be a Stalin, a Castro, a Soviet union, Venezuela and millions of impoverished and oppressed people dying while the leaders sit in the lap of luxury.
Valerie Shimmerwing
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You do realize, if you get your wish and create anarchy for the entre country, the richest people will just amass mercenaries to turn anyone that doesn’t okay them into their salve workers.
 
No, I don’t realize because an anarchist communist society is a federalist society. There are federal laws, the laws of the federations, and the laws of the groups that make up the federations of the anarchist communist society as written by consensus.  
by that time, your definitions wont be much good.
 
Except definitions are important to ensure that communications don’t deteriorate. By ignoring the definition I use and instead using your own, you are not arguing on the same ground as me and will not be able to understand my position.  
You wont be the lawmaker. They will, and if you don’t like it. In to the ditch wit the rest of the rabble-rousers you go. What you suggest will cost millions their freedom, all for some pipedream fantasy you insist will exist if it’s just done your way.
 
I never said that I would be the lawmaker, and you don’t know that.  
Communism has never worked. There will always be a Stalin, a Castro, a Soviet union, Venezuela and millions of impoverished and oppressed people dying while the leaders sit in the lap of luxury.
 
Those would be of authoritarian communism, except for Venezuela that isn’t communist, though not anarchist communism and other derivatives whose methods are more inclined toward interpersonal networks that function without depending on modern society, so your claim of communism never working remains unsubstantiated until all forms of communism have been enacted, of which Stalinist, Maoist, and agrarian (Potian) communism have been tried out and failed.
Valerie Shimmerwing
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Essential Sections from The Place of Anarchism in Socialistic Evolution
 
Part I  
Comrades! you have often asked yourselves—“Whence comes the wealth of the rich? Is it from their labour?” It would be a mockery to say that it was so. Let us suppose that M. Rothschild has worked all his life: well, you also, every one of you working men have also laboured: then why should the fortune of M. Rothschild be measured by hundreds of millions while your possessions are so small? The reason is simple: you have exerted yourselves to produce by your own labour, while M. Rothschild has devoted himself to accumulating the product of the labour of others—the whole matter lies in that.
 
But some one may say to me;—“How comes it that millions of men thus allow the Rothschilds and the Mackays to appropriate the fruit of their labour?” Alas, they cannot help themselves under the existing social system! But let us picture to our minds a city all of whose inhabitants find their lodging, clothing, food and occupation secured to them, on condition of producing things useful to the community, and let us suppose a Rothschild to enter this city bringing with him a cask full of gold. If he spends his gold it will diminish rapidly; if he locks it up it will not increase, because gold does not grow like seed, and after the lapse of a twelvemonth he will not find £110 in his drawer if he only put £100 into it. If he sets up a factory and proposes to the inhabitants of the town that they should work in it for four shillings a day while producing to the value of eight shillings a day they reply—“Among us you’ll find no one willing to work on those terms. Go elsewhere and settle in some town where the unfortunate people have neither clothing, bread, nor work assured to them, and where they will consent to give up to you the lion’s share of the result of their labour in return for the barest necessaries of life. Go where men starve! there you will make your fortune!”
 
The origin of the wealth of the rich is your misery. Let there be no poor, then we shall have no millionaires.  
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All accumulated wealth is the product of the labour of all—of the present and of all preceding generations. This hall in which we are now assembled derives its value from the fact that it is situated in Paris—this magnificent city built by the labours of twenty successive generations. If this same hall were conveyed amid the snows of Siberia its value would be next to nothing. The machinery which you have invented and patented bears within itself the intelligence of five or six generations and is only possessed of value because it forms part of that immense whole that we call the progress of the nineteenth century. If you send your lace-making machine among the natives of New Guinea it will become valueless. We defy any man of genius of our times to tell us what share his intellect has had in the magnificent deductions of the book, the work of talent which he has produced! Generations have toiled to accumulate facts for him, his ideas have perhaps been suggested to him by a locomotive crossing the plains, as for elegance of design he has grasped it while admiring the Venus of Milo or the work of Murillo, and finally, if his book exercises any influence over us, it does so, thanks to all the circumstances of our civilisation.
 
Everything belongs to all! We defy anyone soever to tell us what share of the general wealth is due to each individual. See the enormous mass of appliances which the nineteenth century has created; behold those millions of iron slaves which we call machines, and which plane and saw, weave and spin for us, separate and combine the raw materials, and work the miracles of our times. No one has the right to monopolise any one of these machines and to say to others—“This is mine, if you wish to make use of it you must pay me a tax on each article you produce,” any more than the feudal lord of the middle ages had the right to say to the cultivator—“This hill and this meadow are mine and you must pay me tribute for every sheaf of barley you bind, and on each haycock you heap up.”
 
All belongs to everyone! And provided each man and woman contributes his and her share of labour for the production of necessary objects, they have a right to share in all that is produced by everybody.
 
Part II.  
This is the solution of which the mass of the people can most readily take hold, and it is the solution which the people demands at the most solemn epochs. In 1848 the formula “From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs” was the one which went straight to the heart of the masses, and if they acclaimed the Republic and universal suffrage, it was because they hoped to attain to Communism through them. In 1871, also, when the people besieged in Paris desired to make a supreme effort to resist the invader, what was their demand?—That free rations should be served out to everyone. Let all articles be put into one common stock and let them be distributed according to the requirements of each. Let each one take freely of all that is abundant and let those objects which are less plentiful be distributed more sparingly and in due proportions—this is the solution which the mass of the workers understand best. This is also the system which is commonly practised in the rural districts (of France). So long as the common lands afford abundant pasture, what Commune seeks to restrict their use? When brush-wood and chestnuts are plentiful, what Commune forbids its members to take as much as they want? And when the larger wood begins to grow scarce, what course does the peasant adopt?—The allowancing of individuals.
 
Let us take from the common stock the articles which are abundant, and let those objects whose production is more restricted be served out in allowances according to requirements, giving preference to children and old persons, that is to say, to the weak. And, moreover, let all be consumed, not in public, but at home, according to individual tastes and in company with one’s family and friends. This is the ideal of the masses.
 
But it is not enough to argue about, “Communism” and “Expropriation;” it is furthermore necessary to know who should have the management of the common patrimony, and it is especially on this question that different schools of Socialists are opposed to one another, some desiring authoritarian Communism, and others, like ourselves, declaring unreservedly in favour of anarchist Communism. In order to judge between these two, let us return once again to our starting point, the Revolution of last century.
 
In overturning royalty the Revolution proclaimed the sovereignty of the people; but, by an inconsistency which was very natural at that time, it proclaimed, not a permanent sovereignty, but an intermittent one, to be exercised at certain intervals only, for the nomination of deputies supposed to represent the people. In reality it copied its institutions from the representative government of England. The Revolution was drowned in blood, and, nevertheless, representative government became the watchword of Europe. All Europe, with the exception of Russia, has tried it, under all possible forms, from government based on a property qualification to the direct government of the little Swiss republics. But, strange to say, just in proportion as we have approached nearer to the ideal of a representative government, elected by a perfectly free universal suffrage, in that same proportion have its essential vices become manifest to us, till we have clearly seen that this mode of government is radically defective. Is it not indeed absurd to take a certain number of men from out the mass, and to entrust them with the management of all public affairs, saying to them, “Attend to these matters, we exonerate ourselves from the task by laying it upon you: it is for you to make laws on all manner of subjects—armaments and mad dogs, observatories and chimneys, instruction and street-sweeping: arrange these things as you please and make laws about them, since you are the chosen ones whom the people has voted capable of doing everything!” It appears to me that if a thoughtful and honest man were offered such a post, he would answer somewhat in this fashion:—
 
“You entrust me with a task which I am unable to fulfil. I am unacquainted with most of the questions upon which I shall be called on to legislate. I shall either have to work to some extent in the dark, which will not be to your advantage, or I shall appeal to you and summon meetings in which you will yourselves seek to come to an understanding on the questions at issue, in which case my office will be unnecessary. If you have formed an opinion and have formulated it, and if you are anxious to come to an understanding with others who have also formed an opinion on the same subject, then all you need do is to communicate with your neighbours and send a delegate to come to an understanding with other delegates on this specific question; but you will certainly reserve to yourselves the right of taking an ultimate decision; you will not entrust your delegate with the making of laws for you. This is how scientists and business men act each time that they have to come to an agreement.”
 
But the above reply would be a repudiation of the representative system, and nevertheless it is a faithful expression of the idea which is growing everywhere since the vices of representative government have been exposed in all their nakedness. Our age, however, has gone still further, for it has begun to discuss the rights of the State and of Society in relation to the individual; people now ask to what point the interference of the State is necessary in the multitudinous functions of society.  
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Let others, if they will, advocate industrial barracks or the monastery of Authoritarian Communism, we declare that the tendency of society is in an opposite direction. We foresee millions and millions of groups freely constituting themselves for the satisfaction of all the varied needs of human beings—some of these groups organised by quarter, street, and house; others extending hands across the walls of cities, over frontiers and oceans. All of these will be composed of human beings who will combine freely, and after having performed their share of productive labour will meet together, either for the purpose of consumption, or to produce objects of art or luxury, or to advance science in a new direction. This is the tendency of the nineteenth century, and we follow it; we only ask to develop it freely, without any governmental interference. Individual liberty! “Take pebbles,” said Fourrier, “put them into a box and shake them, and they will arrange themselves in a mosaic that you could never get by entrusting to anyone the work of arranging them harmoniously.”
 
Part III.  
A child is drowning, and four men who stand upon the bank see it struggling in the water. One of them does not stir, he is a partisan of “Each one for himself,” the maxim of the commercial middle-class; this one is a brute and we need not speak of him further. The next one reasons thus: “If I save the child, a good report of my action will be made to the ruler of heaven, and the Creator will reward me by increasing my flocks and my serfs,” and thereupon he plunges into the water. Is he therefore a moral man? Clearly not! He is a shrewd calculator, that is all. The third, who is an utilitarian, reflects thus (or at least utilitarian philosophers represent him as so reasoning): “Pleasures can be classed in two categories, inferior pleasures and higher ones. To save the life of anyone is a superior pleasure infinitely more intense and more durable than others; therefore I will save the child.” Admitting that any man ever reasoned thus, would he not be a terrible egotist? and, moreover, could we ever be sure that his sophistical brain would not at some given moment cause his will to incline toward an inferior pleasure, that is to say, towards refraining from troubling himself? There remains the fourth individual. This man has been brought up from his childhood to feel himself one with the rest of humanity: from his childhood he has always regarded men as possessing interests in common: he has accustomed himself to suffer when his neighbours suffer, and to feel happy when everyone around him is happy. Directly he hears the heart-rending cry of the mother, he leaps into the water, not through reflection but by instinct, and when she thanks him for saving her child, he says, “What have I done to deserve thanks, my good woman? I am happy to see you happy; I have acted from natural impulse and could not do otherwise!”
 
You recognise in this case the truly moral man, and feel that the others are only egotists in comparison with him. The whole anarchist morality is represented in this example. It is the morality of a people which does not look for the sun at midnight—a morality without compulsion or authority, a morality of habit. Let us create circumstances in which man shall not be led to deceive nor exploit others, and then by the very force of things the moral level of humanity will rise to a height hitherto unknown. Men are certainly not to be moralised by teaching them a moral catechism: tribunals and prisons do not diminish vice; they pour it over society in floods. Men are to be moralised only by placing them in a position which shall contribute to develop in them those habits which are social, and to weaken those which are not so. A morality which has become instinctive is the true morality, the only morality which endures while religions and systems of philosophy pass away.
 
Let us now combine the three preceding elements, and we shall have Anarchy and its place in Socialistic Evolution.
 
Emancipation of the producer from the yoke of capital; production in common and free consumption of all the products of the common labour.
 
Emancipation from the governmental yoke; free development of individuals in groups and federations; free organisation ascending from the simple to the complex, according to mutual needs and tendencies.
 
Emancipation from religious morality; free morality, without compulsion or authority, developing itself from social life and becoming habitual.
 
The above is no dream of students, it is a conclusion which results from an analysis of the tendencies of modern society: Anarchist Communism is the union of the two fundamental tendencies of our society—a tendency towards economic equality, and a tendency towards political liberty. So long as Communism presented itself under an authoritarian form, which necessarily implies government, armed with much greater power than that which it possesses to-day, inasmuch as it implies economic in addition to political power—so long as this was the case, Communism met with no sufficient response. Before 1848 it could, indeed, sometimes excite for a moment the enthusiasm of the worker who was prepared to submit to any all-powerful government, provided it would release him from the terrible situation in which he was placed, but it left the true friends of liberty indifferent.
 
Anarchist Communism maintains that most valuable of all conquests—individual liberty—and moreover extends it and gives it a solid basis—economic liberty—without which political liberty in delusive; it does not ask the individual who has rejected god, the universal tyrant, god the king, and god the parliament, to give unto himself a god more terrible than any of the preceding—god the Community, or to abdicate upon its altar his independence, his will, his tastes, and to renew the vow of asceticism which he formerly made before the crucified god. It says to him, on the contrary, “No society is free so long as the individual is not so! Do not seek to modify society by imposing upon it an authority which shall make everything right; if you do, you will fail as popes and emperors have failed. Modify society so that your fellows may not be any longer your enemies by the force of circumstances: abolish the conditions which allow some to monopolise the fruit of the labour of others; and instead of attempting to construct society from top to bottom, or from the centre to the circumference, let it develop itself freely from the simple to the composite, by the free union of free groups. This course, which is so much obstructed at present, is the true forward march of society: do not seek to hinder it, do not turn your back on progress, but march along with it! Then the sentiment of sociability which is common to human beings, as it is to all animals living in society, will be able to develop itself freely, because our fellows will no longer be our enemies, and we shall thus arrive at a state of things in which each individual will be able to give free rein to his inclinations, and even to his passions, without any other restraint than the love and respect of those who surround him.”
 
This is our ideal, and it is the ideal which lies deep in the hearts of peoples—of all peoples. We know full well that this ideal will not be attained without violent shocks; the close of this century has a formidable revolution in store for us: whether it begins in France, Germany, Spain, or Russia, it will be an European one, and spreading with the same rapidity as that of our fathers, the heroes of 1848, it will set all Europe in a blaze. This coming Revolution will not aim at a mere change of government, but will have a social character; the work of expropriation will commence, and exploiters will be driven out. Whether we like it or not, this will be done independently of the will of individuals, and when hands are laid on private property we shall arrive at Communism, because we shall be forced to do so. Communism, however, cannot be either authoritarian or parliamentary, it must either be anarchist or non-existent; the mass of the people does not desire to trust itself again to any saviour, but will seek to organise itself by itself.  
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Anarchist Communism sums up all that is most beautiful and most durable in the progress of humanity; the sentiment of justice, the sentiment of liberty, and solidarity or community of interest. It guarantees the free evolution, both of the individual and of society. Therefore, it will triumph.
Ereiam
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Latest news from Trumpland: National security adviser General McMaster calls Trump an ‘idiot’ and a ‘dope’ with the intelligence of a ‘kindergartner’ during a private dinner. He also took a few jabs at Rex Tillerson (despite him making the same kind of comments a few months before), James Mattis, Steve Bannon and Jared Kushner.
 
Naturally, a spokesman for the National Security Council immediately denied that McMaster ever made those comments, despite them being reported by five separate sources.
 
Isn’t that great to have it confirmed that your Commander-in-Chief lacks the necessary brainpower to understand national security matters?
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@HJSDGCE  
Yes, most countries with civilian control of the military give the supreme command of the armed forces to the executive leader, in that case the president.
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well, to be honest, i just think all of these doctrines are just fueled by laziness and jealousy.
 
who wants to be the slave of a society where all ranks will profit and exploit you, while you could be free and work for yourself, without having to take part into anything like anarcho~~, liberal~~ or socialo-
Valerie Shimmerwing
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*+Ad Hominem [Abusive]  
argumentum ad hominem
 
Logical Form:
 
Person 1 is claiming Y.  
Person 1 is a moron.  
Therefore, Y is not true.
 
Example:
 
My opponent suggests that lowering taxes will be a good idea – this is coming from a woman who eats a pint of Ben and Jerry’s each night!
 
Explanation: The fact that the woman loves her ice cream, has nothing to do with the lowering of taxes, and therefore, is irrelevant to the argument. Ad hominem attacks are usually made out of desperation when one cannot find a decent counter argument.
 
Exception: When the attack on the person is relevant to the argument, it is not a fallacy. In our first example, if the issue being debated was the elimination of taxes only on Ben and Jerry’s ice cream, then pointing out her eating habits would be strong evidence of a conflict of interest.
 
Tip: When others verbally attack you, take it as a compliment to the quality of your argument. It is usually a sign of desperation on their part.  

 
+*Strawman Fallacy
 
Logical Form:
 
Person 1 makes claim Y.  
Person 2 restates person 1’s claim (in a distorted way).  
Person 2 attacks the distorted version of the claim.  
Therefore, claim Y is false.
 
Example:
 
Zebedee: What is your view on the Christian God?  
Mike: I don’t believe in any gods, including the Christian one.  
Zebedee: So you think that we are here by accident, and all this design in nature is pure chance, and the universe just created itself?  
Mike: You got all that from me stating that I just don’t believe in any gods?
 
Explanation: Mike made one claim: that he does not believe in any gods. From that, we can deduce a few things, like he is not a theist, he is not a practicing Christian, Catholic, Jew, or a member of any other religion that requires the belief in a god, but we cannot deduce that he believes we are all here by accident, nature is chance, and the universe created itself. Mike might have no beliefs about these things whatsoever. Perhaps he distinguishes between “accident” and natural selection, perhaps he thinks the concept of design is something we model after the universe, perhaps he has some detailed explanation based on known physics as to how the universe might have first appeared, or perhaps he believes in some other supernatural explanation. Regardless, this was a gross mischaracterization of Mike’s argument.
 
Exception: At times, an opponent might not want to expand on the implications of his or her position, so making assumptions might be the only way to get the opponent to point out that your interpretation is not accurate, then they will be forced to clarify.
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Champions of Equestria

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