Unpopular opinion time

Background Pony #7CFD
@Brass Beau  
But at the same time it’s not very fair now is it? If anything the fact that Discord proved to be able to reform should have incentivized the Main 6/princesses/Starlight to want to try it with Cozy.
 
The thing is with remorse is that besides Stygian, none of the reformed villains did until the attempt to try and talk to them/reform them was made:  
-Starlight ran away after her first defeat and came back for revenge only showing remorse after Twilight talked to her about her backstory.  
-Tempest streight up told Twilight to grow up the first time she tried to talk to her and only switched sides after Storm King betrayed her.  
-We all know about Discord.  
-Heck, even with Stygian, almost everyone believed that he betrayed the Pillars for power and Starlight still wanted to help him. The POS only came up as a seperate entity after Twilight and Starlight risked themselves to get to him.
 
Another thing worth noting is that all of the vanquished villains up to s8/s9 opening were powerful being who were still attacking Equestria and couldn’t be captured via normal means:  
-Sombra had to be vaporized with the Chrystal Heart and the expanding friendship bubble.  
-Chrysalis and the changelings had to be blow away to secure victory.  
-The POS was a powerful spirit who they didn’t have time to try and reform before he got limbo’d.  
-Storm King was about to chrystalize the M6.  
-Discord was causing mass chaos and the only way to beat him at the time was the Elements of Harmony.  
-Tirek had everypony’s magic and in a similar fashion to Discord’s, the only way to beat him was the friendship box thingy.
 
With all of these villains, beating them was a matter of self-defense. Celestia and the M6 got Discord to cooperate by threatening him with the elements, Twilight was pretty much forced to talk to Starlight, Stygian was pretty much trapped himself and wasn’t really attacking and Chrysalis was beaten, vastly outnumvered and outgunned and was effectively captured. They all got second chances (even if more could have been done for Chryssie).
 
Cozy, meanwhile was a normal filly who got restrained by two guards and they decided to not to try and rehabilitate her, instead they tossed her in the place where they put Tirek and a bunch of dangerous animals because there was no other place they could safely lock them up in. Later, the trio were beaten, depowered (interestingly enough thats all the friendship lasers did to them in comparison to first time Luna/Tirek and Sombra), restrained and completely at the mercy of the heroes. Instead of trying to reform them, they get turned to stone which previously only happend because there was no other way to contain Discord. And this was with the context of all the reformed villains.
 
It doesn’t seem very fair now, does it? Especially after all the things Discord was so easily forgiven for even after his reformation.
Brass Beau

Howdy from Shimmer Pope
@Background Pony #7CFD  
Correct me if I’m wrong but it was Celestia that determined and executed the punishment of Cozy both times. When you commit world altering catastrophes and piss of basically the god emperor, there really isn’t much argument you can make. Especially if you lack the power to free yourself from such imprisonment. Discord escaped once and turning him into an ally was a calculated move. There was zero to be gained by doing the same for Cozy. Tirek and Chrysalis both tried to overthrow the kingdom three times. Teaming up with them was another strike against Cozy. Child or not she presented herself as a clear and present danger to the nation as a whole. Certainly, redemption would have been nice to see but what happened was a logical choice.
Background Pony #7CFD
@Brass Beau  
For the first time, we don’t know if it was just Celestia’s decision and the second time it was Celestia, Luna and Discord combined that did it. And as for pissing her off, again, Discord and Starlight. She also didn’t seem to intervene when Starlight tried to give Chrysalis a second chance. Keep in mind that Starlight attempted to take out one of Equestria’s princesses twice and Discord actually managed to take over the kingdom at one point and was willing to try again and even allied with Tirek.
 
As for having zero gain, Tirek’s ability to drain magic could have been invaluble for restraining criminals with strong magic, Chrysalis’s abilities as a stronger changeling could have made her a great asset in her own right and Cozy proved to be a great stratagist of sorts. A reformed adult Cozy with her abilities further honed could have made for a great advisor or general.
 
As for logic, if the only reason that Discord was let out because of his power then his entire relationship with Fluttershy was based on how useful he could potentially be. If that’s the case then Cozy was right all along: Friendship is power and Twilight, the Princess of Friendship was wrong when she denounced that. Would it really be right to have the villain’s ideology be right over the hero’s in a show called Friendship is Magic? Doesn’t that put Celestia in a bad light?
 
And if were still going with logic, then there should have been no attempt made to help Stygian because that was illogical, Starlight should have logically be imprisoned, Discord should have been reimprisoned or somehow killed after everything he pulled after reforming and Tempest shouldn’t have been allowed to walk free.
Brass Beau

Howdy from Shimmer Pope
  • Celestia made the choice to free and redeem him because he could get freed again and it would better to turn him into an ally.  
  • Even though it started as a matter of convenience, genuine friendship was made.
     
    Starlight  
  • Twilight couldn’t defeat her other than to talk her around and gave her the chance to redeem herself.
     
    Stygian  
  • Twilight was going to blast him into limbo.  
  • Starlight convinced Twilight to try redemption and only tried because she was doubting her own redemption.
     
    Chrysalis  
  • She tried to conquer or destroy the nation at least three times.  
  • She rejected a chance at redemption.  
  • There’s a whole allied nation that can do most if not all of what she can do.
     
    Tirek  
  • He tried to conquer or destroy the nation at least three times.  
  • He proved he will only ally himself with others until he has no use for them.  
  • The elements can demonstrably drain magic as well as he can.
     
    Celestia is a flawed individual as much as any other character. The fact that as many characters got a second chance is a testament to Twilight’s title as the princess of friendship. Yes, Celestia could have punished Starlight or Tempest but she abdicated that responsibility onto Twilight. Twilight could undo the petrification of the trio and she may well try some day. Maybe we’ll get that in the season 10 comics. Nothing was particularly inconsistent with the choices the characters made, though.
Background Pony #7CFD
@Brass Beau  
Discord: Attacked the nation three times (and four by assosiation). Celestia only said that reforming him could turn his powers for good. In no way did she state or assume that he could escape again.
 
Starlight: True, the only reason she got redeemed was because she was powerful and lucky enough to get a second chance.
 
Stygian: Again, everyone thought that he was a traitor. Starlight went through all that effort to try and help him, but she refused to do the same with Cozy.
 
Chrysalis: Probably the least redeemable, although I doupt her mental health. Either way she could have been captured and put into a more extensive rehab program rather then be allowed to escape and live on her own for a while.
 
Tirek: Another villain who never got a second chance unless you count Scorpan. He, in a similar vain to Discord managed to escape Tartarus, was only defeated by friendship rainbows but Celestia never saw fit to give him a second chance like she did with Discord.
 
Yes, Celestia is flawed, but if she is so much of a hypocrit that she is willing to prove Cozy right, then Twilight should have protested against her decision. Again, if we look at it from this perspective then Cozy was right and Twilight was wrong. I ask again, is that really right for a show about the magic of friendship and does this put Celestia in a bad light?
Brass Beau

Howdy from Shimmer Pope
  • Celestia stated that Discord escaped his prison because she lost her connection to the elements. Since the mane six aren’t going to live for a thousand years, it can be inferred that it was going to happen again.  
  • Cozy tricked and imprisoned Starlight. We know Starlight is temperamental so she may not have been in a forgiving mood.  
  • Being in Tartarus and being imprisoned by friendship magic have different weaknesses.  
  • Cozy may say “friendship is power” but she didn’t know what friendship was. Cozy has actually been called out on this. Using and manipulating people and consolidating that influence for her own benefit isn’t friendship. Befriending Discord may have been convenient but it wasn’t until after he betrayed them that they all put in more effort to actually treat him like a friend. Using Discord is what Tirek did and Cozy would do. Forgiving him and spending time with him is what friends do. The cast has had plenty of stumbling blocks and made mistakes when it comes to dealing with threats to their way of life, but everyone that was redeemed wanted redemption. Cozy, Tirek and Chrysalis wanted power, abused it when they had it and didn’t consider any other options. As such, they have to suffer the consequences. What else were the cast supposed to do at that point? The Ludovico technique?
Background Pony #7CFD
@Brass Beau  
-And new bearers couldn’t be found? It’s still rather unfair that he gets to get away with so many things. Especially from the supposadly benevolent ruler who had up to that point, multiple examples of people changing.  
-Starlight may be temperamental but she still had her own experiences to know that people can change. She wasn’t that temperemental at that point and remember, she was willing to try and help Chrysalis who kidnapped all her friends and was attacking her personally.  
-Their both unneccesarely horrible imprisonments and again, the friendship laser spared the trio but stoned Discord, killed/banished Sombra and imprisoned Tirek.
 
Not knowing what friendship is makes Cozy more deserving of a reformation attempt to help her understand it then anything and even if she doesn’t know what it it, her idea of friendship being power still holds weight in the face of Celestia’s actions with Discord and the fact that Starlight was given a second chance because she was powerful.
 
And everyone who was redeemed didn’t want redemption at first. They had to be given that chance and effort to redeem them in the first place and Discord still had Fluttershy even before Tirek. Cozy meanwhile, was given no chances, no attempts to reform her, nothing. How do you expect her to want to redeem herself when the heroes never give her a reason to and never put in the same time and effort they put into others to help her see that?
 
If they had to suffer the consequences then Starlight should have been captured and sent to Tartarus and Discord should never have been freed. If those two deserve second chanced and rehabilitations then so does a misguided child, a centaur who already suffered his punishment for a thousend years and a mentally ill changeling. As it stands they didn’t and that is fundementally unfair, which shouldn’t be one of the last big actions of the heroe’s.
 
What else were the cast supposed to do at that point?
 
Actually try to reform them? They were completely depowered so it would have been safe to try.
DoctorWTF
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What else were the cast supposed to do at that point?
Actually try to reform them? They were completely depowered so it would have been safe to try.
 
Brass Beau’s point was that Cozy Glow’s personality is more or less incompatible with reformation - she had absolutely zero interest in caring about anyone other than herself. Her special talent was manipulating people. I could maybe see her getting reformed as Discord was - starting out thinking “I’ll just play along until these idiots let their guard down”, and eventually discovering what true companionship feels like, but it seems like kind of a toss-up at best.
 
My take on Chrysalis (based on what we’ve seen in between “To Where and Back Again” and fake-Grogar discovering her) is that she’s so set in her ways that she can’t be bothered to change even when it is strongly in her best interests to do so - just like so many people in real life.
 
Starlight at least sincerely believed that her wacko philosophy was the best way to maintain healthy relationships (so there was at least some selflessness deep down in her). Plus Discord was only given his second chance because Celestia thought his powers would be useful on the side of good.
Background Pony #7CFD
she had absolutely zero interest in caring about anyone other than herself. Her special talent was manipulating people.
 
Discord also had no interest in caring about anyone other then himself and we don’t even know how she got her cutie mark and even if her special talent would be about manipulating it could still be reused in ways outside of villainy. Rarity isn’t a full-time miner, after all. We don’t know if she can or can’t be reformed because no one ever tried.
 
As for Chryssie, she would be difficult, but perhaps not impossible. At first, she did not want to accept working with and at times needing Cozy and Tirek but she did eventually proving that she can change her mind about things.
 
As for Starlight, you could say that she thought that her ways were the best, but you can also say the same for Chrysalis.
 
And Discord being given a second chance only for his power only gives credence to Cozy’s version of friendship, which is something that Twilight vehemently opposed. I’d rather not have Twilight proven wrong all along after everything she’s learned over the course of the show.
 
Again, if Starlight and Discord deserve second chances and effort put into helping them then so does Cozy (and Tirek and Chrysalis as well).
Don't
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Like seriously, Discord being forgiven after Tirek Manipulated him came off as dumb, if he’s insecure enough to let Tirek trick him who’s to say that won’t happen again
Latecomer

@DoctorWTF  
Yes, maybe we as viewers who’ve sern plenty of Cozy’s true face can make such a judgement (although you may notice we hardly all agree on it). But on what basis can Celestia make that judgement?
DarkObsidian
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But on what basis can Celestia make that judgement?
 
Well, I don’t think that’s really hard to guess. You just have to put yourself in Celestia’s position. She witnesses Cozy trying to steal all the magic in the kingdom, and later on even stealing the magic from her and her sister again personally. Then one could take that pretty personal at some point, right? Furthermore, Celestia always seemed to me to be someone who took the protection of her ponies more important than her personal interests.
 
I admit, I personally was also very surprised about the petrifaction of Lord Tirek, Queen Chrysalis and Cozy Glow. But I have never seen this as a kind of death sentence, because it is known that this spell can be broken at some point. Well, it is the old question, how does a reasonable legal sentence work. Maybe the fate of these three villains wasn’t so bad after all. Then you can just think about it afterwards. ;-)
DoctorWTF
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Furthermore, Celestia always seemed to me to be someone who took the protection of her ponies more important than her personal interests.
 
Exactly, all three of them at that point had attempted evil schemes which nearly wrecked Equestria. It’s understandable that she would see the petrification as, if not the best outcome, necessary to ensuring that the threat is fully neutralized.
 
Though it might be interesting to see the major characters at least try to reform them, even if the smart money is against them succeeding (standing ready to re-petrify if things go pear-shaped, of course).
Background Pony #7CFD
@DoctorWTF  
But again, the example of the previously reformed villains makes that kind of a moot point. Especially considering that Cozy and Tirek were never given second chances, that Cozy is a child, that Tirek has already been punished for a millenia and that Chrysalis was obviously insane.
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@Background Pony #7CFD  
Considering that Chrysalis basically said “We’ll have our revenge no matter how many times we’ll try” or something along the lines, I don’t think that the three would’ve accepted in being reformed even if the mane 6 and the princesses tried.
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@Myoozik  
Cheysalis and Cozy Glow were offered chances at redemption twice, and they refused them both times, so I don’t think a third or forth or fifth chance would change that, as much as fans want to think otherwise (and heck, there’s probably some good fics that redeem them in some way shape or form, with or without a good reason to do so given what we have of them)
Brass Beau

Howdy from Shimmer Pope
@Dustcan  
So are parasprites. The adorable little monsters are hard to resist.
 
@Vivace  
@Sadrai  
The princess of friends with benefits had a very popular reign.
 
@Background Pony #7CFD  
At some point, the villains would have to take the initiative and seek redemption. It’s a two way road and the responsibility isn’t solely on the mane cast. Hell, their denial of friendship after receiving Grogar’s bell was when they damned themselves. Twilight was willing to fight Starlight for the rest of eternity if that’s what it took. New element bearers could continuously imprison Discord. Even if it was a lie or part of a scheme, Discord still had to say he’d give friendship a try. That’s what sets him apart from the other three. He accepted the offer.
Background Pony #7CFD
@Myoozik  
And Discord streight up mocked Fluttershy for trying to reform him.
 
 
@Vinylshadow  
Chrysalis only had one chance and Cozy never got one to begin with. Thats not even mentioning all the times Discord regressed.
 
 
@Sadrai  
Discord had a thousend years in stone to change but didn’t.
 
 
@Brass Beau  
But again, Discord did not seek redemption and Starlight came back later for revenge. Tempest also only looked to redeem herself after she was betrayed. And the fact that they had an almost revelation to deny shows that they had potential as no other villain got that on their own. Imagine how they could change with actual help. And again, Discord had Fluttershy specifically putting up with and helping him get to that point which is something the trio never got.
 
I say again: if Discord and Starlight deserved a second chance then so did the trio and the fact that they didn’t even get an attempt to reform them is fundementally unfair.
DarkObsidian
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When I think about it, I am still very disappointed that Cozy Glow is actually a real Pegasus. The sentence: “You know, you ponies got it all wrong” had somehow made me hope for something else.
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