Unpopular opinion time

Background Pony #7CFD
@gingerninja666
Discord's reason was pretty much "Its fun lol." which was just as bad if not worse of a motivation and Starlight's reasoning during her time traveling was just revenge. Meanwhile Cozy's reasonning came from a deep misunderstanding of the purpose of friendship which is something that could have been worked on if given the time and effort.

You could go by reasonning all you want but it doesn't change the fact that Cozy was never given a second chance despite so many people saying that she got many and I don't think thats very fair.
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gingerninja666
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Kaze ni Nare
Twi will bite at even the slightest hint of sincerity.

For example, In No Second Prances, after hating Trixie for the entire episode, the moment, the SECOND that Trixie expressed sadness about something, Twilight stopped in her tracks and realized that she was wrong. XD
Background Pony #7CFD
@gingerninja666
And yet she has seen how previously unrepentent and insincere characters can change over time. Aka Discord, who showed neither saddness or a even a want to reform apon being released.
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Background Pony #7CFD
@gingerninja666
Discord also reversed his change when he took Tirek's offer.

Cozy came to the school with the express purpose of manipulation and never showed her true self until she sprang her plans into motion. The kindness directed to her was only at a persona while Fluttershy was willing to work at reforming Discord despite knowing what he was actually like. Cozy meanwhile was given no such attempt after the facade was off. Besides that one could make a case for her showing a bit of gratitude when she got the CMC to be tutors by confessing despite not really needing to for her plans or that time near the end of Frenemies where she actually seemed to contemplate a liking for helping others.

Compared to this Starlight was willing to attack two of her villaigers who treated her with respect and reverence when they opposed her making Twilight have to actively shield them.

This still doesn't change the fact that Cozy got no second chances despite many other villains getting it and people saying that she actually did.
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AC97
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition

@gingerninja666

Cozy Glow is basically a filly version of Tirek, who had a family that by all accounts wasn't bad… and yet he was a power-hungry prick from the get-go, except she arguably enjoys backstabbing more than he does, and she hides herself behind "insincere syrupy sweetness," as Tirek put it.

She was a student performing well, in a School of Friendship, meaning she'd sit through say, Fluttershy talking about how much being bullied in her childhood hurt her, pass any tests related to it, she was close to Twilight and all of her friends, she was being helpful to others… and it all meant nothing to her.

She knows what it is, she doesn't care. She's acutely aware of what the right and wrong sensibilities of society at large are, because she manipulated others with them, and she isn't some idealist whose worldview can be crushed into dust like with Starlight, or Neighsay (well, if you can call his mindset he obviously grew out of an 'ideal'). She shows more than a few traits of a psychopath, and you can't really treat that.

(On a related note, the Fluttershy hypothetical quite probably happened, because to compare a quote or two from Hurricane Fluttershy to that last two parter)

Fluttershy: [voiceover] The other foals used to tease me, a lot!
Foals: [chanting] Fluttershy, Fluttershy, Fluttershy can hardly fly!


Cozy Glow: Now, now, professor. We all know you're not the fast one.


I can't help but feel that was an intentional callback.
gingerninja666
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Kaze ni Nare
@Background Pony #7CFD

Discord reversed, and then Twilight only went to bat for him when he expressed regret over doing it. He had to show her some sincerity.

Starlight was motivated by things that Twilight could understand. Starlight didn't think she was hurting anyone beyond those who immediately wronged her, so bringing up that her revenge plan would destroy the world makes sense. She also knew that Starlight's village was sincerely important to her (hence why she was out for revenge), and Twi opened up the floor to let Starlight explain why she built it. Starlight then gave her backstory. Every step of the way Starlight gave Twilight something she could use, and it painted the picture for Twilight of a pony who was motivated by various types of pain. We can argue how valid Starlight's pain was, but it was still a motive Twilight could work with, and Starlight was willing to give that information.

Cozy never did this. Even when given the chance, she never lets slip any type of vulnerability. And unlike Discord, she didn't respond at all to people being kind to her.

I don't even disagree with the idea that the whole thing could've been written much more gracefully, but I don't think it's out of character for Twilight.
AC97
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition

@gingerninja666

I don't even disagree with the idea that the whole thing could've been written much more gracefully, but I don't think it's out of character for Twilight.


Honestly, yeah, that resolution could've used a bit more time/elaboration, for one thing.

I'm pretty sure someone can add on how to do it more gracefully, too
Background Pony #7CFD
@AC97
Cozy Glow is basically a filly version of Tirek, who had a family that by all accounts wasn't bad…

We don't know anything about Cozy Glow's family and the canonity of comics are kind of an odd issue. We just know for sure that Vorak existed and Tirek had daddy issues with him.

She was a student performing well, in a School of Friendship

Which means that she read and memorized the materials to get good grades. When I had to memorize poems in school I only memorized it for grades. I never cared enough about what morals might have actually been in them to emphasize or find meaning within them. Cozy most likely already had a pre-concieved idea about what friendship actually was. Plus all barely know about what they actually taught in classrooms other then history lessons. When her followers started to challenge her beliefs all those times they put their full trust meant nothing to her when she attacked them.

she isn't some idealist whose worldview can be crushed into dust like with Starlight, or Neighsay

Starlight got her worldview by having a single friend of hers move away and was willing to attack others when challenged. I'm happy that she reformed but thats not much of an excuse. Discord meanwhile only did what he did for his own amusement which I believe is far worse then any powerlust. I never said that she was an idealist, but neither were most other reformed villains.

@gingerninja666
He had to show her some sincerity.

But he only showed that sincerity after he betrayed everyone. Even then it could have easily be taken as just being sad that he got betrayed. And technically Cozy was gave a sincere and honest answer when she said that she wanted power.

Starlight was motivated by things that Twilight could understand.

Because she took the time to try and find out why she was motivated. Twilight never tried to find out why Cozy wanted power or what her past was leading up to School Raze. Again, no second chances or attempts to talk her out of it. The only reason that Twilight had something to work with for Starlight was because she put in so much effort into trying to help her. Something which again, she never did to Cozy despite having ample and safe opportunities to do so when she was exposed and captured.

And unlike Discord, she didn't respond at all to people being kind to her.

Again, that kindness was not directed at her true self, only a fassad. After getting exposed nothing was attempted with her unlike with the others.

I don't think it's out of character for Twilight.

This is the same character who experienced first hand how Discord reformed and did her absolute best to help Tempest and Starlight despite previously knowing nothing about them. By all accounts a captured, exposed filly would have been grounds for her to sit down and try to have a lengthy conversation with said filly.

And again, many other villains were given second chances but Cozy didn't despite people claiming that she did.
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gingerninja666
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Kaze ni Nare
@Background Pony #7CFD

Discord was also using a facade in Keep Calm and Flutter On.

Discord: You like carrots, Angel? I'm playing your owner for a fool! How d'ya like them carrots?


And yet, Fluttershy's kindness got through to him all the same, even when he still thought his act was fooling her. I don't get why Twilight's experience with Discord should've made her more accepting of Cozy. They're completely different characters. Not to mention that most of the time Twilight doesn't give Discord the benefit of the doubt and clearly hates his guts. She's only decent to him if he shows her some vulnerability first and drops his cocky act.

Starlight gave Twilight more than Cozy ever did, even without Twilight's prompting. Twilight learned that Starlight's village meant something to her:

Starlight: My village was a sanctuary of equality, where nopony's cutie mark allowed them to feel superior! It was a special place, and you and your friends took it away!


And she knew that Starlight didn't think she was hurting Equestria. She learned these things without having to try. This was before she asked Starlight for her motive, at which point she got something that was theoretically sympathetic.

It's just not the same with Cozy. Cozy knowingly tried to cripple the entire world and imprison the mane 6 forever for no reason other than power, despite everything she'd been taught, and all the friends she'd made
Background Pony #7CFD
@gingerninja666
And yet, Fluttershy's kindness got through to him all the same, even when he still thought his act was fooling her.

Because Fluttershy still tried to reform him even when the jug was up. She was persistant no matter what he did. Also, all that kindness and energy was directed at reforming Discord specifically. Something which again, Cozy never got.

I don't get why Twilight's experience with Discord should've made her more accepting of Cozy.

Because if the enthisesis of harmony who even returned to his old ways multiple times deserves a second chance then so does a filly. And despite hating him she did later learn to at least try to be his friend.

Starlight gave Twilight more than Cozy ever did, even without Twilight's prompting. Twilight learned that Starlight's village meant something to her

And by that logic she should have learned to try and understand others before deciding what to do with them. Cozy never had the chance or opportunity to reveal why she wanted power besides misunderstanding the purpose of friendship and Twilight never tried anything with her. Cozy was captured and harmless by the end of school raze. Twilight should have at least tried sitting down with her and talking, which based on her past experiences should have been the default option.

And really, this doesn't change the fact that Cozy never even got an attempt at a reformation.

Theres also Tempest, who Twilight did try to talk to even before she knew her backstory (if I recall correctly, my memory with the movie is a bit hazy).
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gingerninja666
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Kaze ni Nare
@Background Pony #7CFD

But Discord didn't know that the jig was up at the time. He thought that he was still fooling her, but her friendhip still clearly had an effect on him. Then, when he did something really shitty (flooding the entirety of sweet apple acres) and the jig was truly up, Fluttershy broke it off. She stopped trying at that point, and it was that feeling of losing a friend that caused him to stop.

Twi only ever tried to be his friend when HE put the work in. She never made the first move.

Twilight has never had a long talk with anyone without the other person offering up information or showcasing vulnerability along the way. But she did ask for Cozy's motive. She wanted to know why Cozy did it. I highly doubt that she would've sent Cozy to Tartarus if Cozy had given her a sincere, sympathetic motive.
Background Pony #7CFD
@gingerninja666
He thought that he was still fooling her, but her friendhip still clearly had an effect on him.

Thats because Fluttershy was trying to befriend him specifically. When Cozy was in the school she maintained a teacher student/assistant relationship with Twilight and Starlight. None of them knew what she was like and they treated her just like another student and as such, assumed that she was going at the right track. Fluttershy meanwhile knew what Discord was like and that he was a villain who was indeed misguided and needed to be reformed and acted as such.

Twi only ever tried to be his friend when HE put the work in. She never made the first move.

Thats because his reformation was entrusted to Fluttershy, not Twilight.

I highly doubt that she would've sent Cozy to Tartarus if Cozy had given her a sincere, sympathetic motive.

By that logic Celestia should have never had Discord reformed because he never had a sympathetic backstory. Cozy gave a sincere motive in wanting power. While not sympathetic Twilight never asked why she wanted power nor did she try anything else beyond that point. During her first meeting with Starlight all she knew about her is that she manipulated a bunch of ponies into giving up their cutie marks, lied about giving up her own, was willing to attack others when they challenged her and cut off her friendship speech before escaping. It was her own decision to try and save her when she came back for revenge.

Simply put, Twilight tried her best to help Tempest and Starlight even before she knew their backstories and saw first hand with Discord how a previously evil and unrepentent villain could change if given time, care, attention and effort. How difficult would it have been to at least find someone to try and do the same with a misguided filly?

Surely, it would have been a logical step to try and help Cozy beyond just asking why she did that.
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