Unpopular opinion time

@Philweasel
 

 
…I think you meant to say “Sunset” there.
 
(to be fair it took me a couple of times reading for me to notice that, not proud of myself for it taking as long as it did for me to notice)
 
@Meanlucario  

 

 
Indeed.

@Philweasel
 
Make no mistake, Sunset is totally shameless waifu bait, but I’ll admit she became somewhat more tolerable in the more recent EG stuff, once they stopped having her pull new skills and interests out of her ass (especially that “Flanksy” crap). That’s not to say I don’t still have serious issues with her character, or that there’s any way I’d ever fa–
 

 
Oh…oh….well…that’s…err…
 
_{Fucking damn it…}

@AC97  
They’re similar in that they they both clearly wanted power and control and both actively did things that prevented them from having friends. Both of their “I just want friends” motives seemed fairly tacked on, like it really seems like the whole “Oh they just want friends” thing was an afterthought to the characters so that the power of friendship could so easily redeem them. It worked a lot better with Sunset though, since she was a lot more small-time and petty, and didn’t do any of her overly cruel and sadistic shit until she was corrupted :P

@Badumsquish  
As a staunch lover of Starlight Glimmer, I’ve come to agree with you on all this. Her reformation would’ve been much more believable if she had stood by ideals that she abandoned after being shown the error of her ways, instead of some pity party. It still feels out of place to me, and if anything, the way she behaves after becoming a good guy would be more logical in that version of events.

@Spinny  
S P E E N

@GenericArchangel  
Seeing how long she had to think about her ideals between her premier and final, I think it was breaking down for her before the time-traveling, and the reason for it was all she had left when confronted with the future her actions are causing.

@GenericArchangel  
To be fair, on the whole the show’s always been kind of bad with how they handle reformations. Starlight’s the most glaring example, yeah, but she wasn’t the first or last. It’s like the characters have some kind of insider knowledge that they shouldn’t have about who is and isn’t reformable, throw friends at the one who is and it just magically works regardless of that characters established motives or traits, and then all the bad shit they did or continue to do suddenly just gets a free pass. When it comes to reformations, it seems like the characters do what the writer needs them to do for the reformation to happen rather than what that character should logically do :P

@Badumsquish  

 
I don’t know, though it seemed shallow at first, on subsequent reflection Starlight’s ‘Equalism’ ideals were pretty easily to see as her twisted attempt at trying to make friends, especially after ‘Every Little Thing She Does’. Her breakdown after Twilight and Fluttershy expose her definitely show that it wasn’t about power or control, that she legitimately on some level thought she was actually ‘creating harmony’ and making ponies happy.
 
Going back to what went wrong with Sunset, it hurts her that she doesn’t really seem to have any real actual power in the school. She doesn’t have any friends, she’s clearly intimidated by Principle Celestia, she doesn’t even seem to be particularly popular. Her position seems entirely built on bullying others, which makes her out as a rather petty little sadist rather than someone seeking any higher goal. If they had spent more time defining her as a real character instead of some cardboard villain who ‘hates friendship’, it would have really helped her future development.

@Latecomer  

 
Building on my previous post (as I’ve only just seen this), I would like more detail as to why she broke away from Celestia and what she hoped to gain from coming to this school. If she wanted one sided friendship for instance, have her have a larger posse and scenes displaying her enjoying her position and power, and explain in more detail why she wants the element of magic (beyond ‘Ultimate powwwwer’).
 
This would feed into her ‘Mommy Sunset’ persona that she later develops and which I really like. Her supporting and then taking the backseat to SciTwi and the others would be a perfect complement to her previous belief that friendship was all about propping her up and what she wanted.

@Dustcan  
Momlestia is wholesome, just like Twilight acting like a motherly/sisterly figure to Spike.

@Myoozik  
Or sexy, depending on who you ask.

@Philweasel
 

 
Yeah, that pretty much checks out. Starlight was deluded, kinda demented, yes, but she plainly desired companionship, as twisted as the means she went about it were; it was the entire reason she fell. It’s not like a desire for friendship came out of nowhere with her. Her power was a means to an end to accomplish that, and her character arc can I think be said to be her ultimately realizing that all the power in the world doesn’t make friendships, inherently (which I think is part of the point of ELTSD, right?). Oh, and that differences don’t preclude friendship.
 
Sunset… she wasn’t someone who was looking for real friends as a villain, she wanted lackeys, if anything. If you’re taking inspiration from the comics, she was just another power-hungry unicorn, in that what she wanted was alicornhood. If the course of events had happened differently, with her staying in Equestria, I think maybe it wouldn’t be hard to end up portraying her as being like some combination of Tirek and Sombra, if maybe downplayed (except to differ from Tirek, she wants to become an alicorn, but her motives are on the power-hungry side, regardless, she’d probably take pride in her abilities [like Starlight as well, except it’d maybe be noticeably more prevalent throughout], and she’d quite possibly find the use of dark magic palatable, in the pursuit of power).

@AC97  
Her own goal was to have companionship trough ponies who wouldn’t “abandon” her like Sunburst did before it became revenge when Twi “ruined” her village.

@AC97  
Yeah. Sunset had a backstory ripe for interesting motives, but Meghan seemed content to make her… well, Tirek. And though Tirek’s fun, he’s not exactly psychologically complex, especially since Sunset lacked his smarts and pragmatism.

I feel like someone on EQD is obsessed with Yonabar and I just don’t care for it at all. Please stop pushing it.

@LightningBolt  
Sorry, but you can blame the shou for that one - used to be he mostly got paired with Ocellus, but now she’s put with Smoulder (while the popular Gallustream is unabated).
 
I always found it clear Starlight acted from altruistic motives, even if she also had a need to control and own ponies so they wouldn’t leave her. I do wish she’d kept up her Equalism, though, in a reformed form.
 
And as for Sunset,discerning power and glory is a good enough goal - she is still young, after all, and being chosen as Celestia’s student likely went to her head. (Mi backstory for her also adds other factors.)

@Latecomer  
I remember Ocellus only handing Smoulder a drink, nothing more. I blame the fandom for going apeship sover something small, like they did with Lyrabon, a ship I hate due to how one-note it was and the fandom’s obsession with it.
 
Seeing as Starlight never followed that rule herself, I don’t see why.

Smolder X Ocellus is the better student 6 ship for me IMO.

@Myoozik  
Yona X Sandbar from me, though I don’t ship the other four.

@Meanlucario  
It came before the drink-handing - a mix of Sandcellus going off the table and their interaction in What Lies Beneath.
 
And IMO she believed in it - she’d probably have ditched her mark if she has a working Staff of Sameness.

@Latecomer  
I think it’s just shippers being shippers, like AJ/Dash and AJ/Rarity.
 
And I have my doubts.

@Meanlucario
 
Yeah, pretty much. …Which brings to mind that thought that’s been stated that one of her underlying issues was that she had BPD, if anything.
 
@Philweasel
 
 
One such intriguing motive/contributing factor might be that it’s easy to imagine she’d be quite envious and (as I said a few pages back, forgive the slight redundancy) disdainful of Cadance (and later, Twilight, obviously), for getting to be an alicorn, especially considering she wasn’t even enrolled in magic school when it happened, so why didn’t she get to be one (I’m one to prefer to think along the lines of “no, Celestia can’t just make you an alicorn, that’s not exactly how it works,” but Sunset… probably wouldn’t be the easiest to explain that to, let alone have her believe you, if she’s being indignant, difficult).
 
And yeah, Tirek is fun in that he’s a gigantic asshole… but he’s less compulsively sadistic than say, Chrysalis, and is also smart, even if he’s the one hungering for the gigantic muscles. …Anywho, you’re right, not overly complex or sympathetic, in any case; that tends to be the case for villains in this franchise, just the nature of it.
 
Sunset wasn’t compelling in that her villainy was just… petty overall, and kind of lackluster in its methods. I think that’s part of why people were frustrated with the first movie.

@Myoozik
 
Agreed. It’d just be nice if Celestia pumped the brakes a bit and realized that the ponies she takes under her wings might actually have other life goals in mind apart from princesshood.

@Spinny  
Sadly, once she declared she was retiring Twilight had little choice - but I would have loved to see her finally put her hooves down. Might have been a bit insulting to Faust though - bringing up her end goal just to reject it.

@Latecomer  
If Twilight had another few decades of learning how not to be Celestia, then she’d be fine as a ruler.
 
Unfortunately, the Equestrian crown is cursed to turn whomever wears one into an idiot, so she was doomed from the start.