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Trixie & Suicide

Tirimsil
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aka Summersong
I’ve seen some crazy people trying to argue that Trixie’s newest episode touches on legitimate suicidal tendencies and I’d like to make clear why I find that to be complete horse crap. First, let me explain their argument:
 
The suicide argument: Trixie is a broken and depressed person who continues with a deadly stage trick after Starlight withdraws her vital assistance, out of guilt / suicidal desires.
 
 
Now let’s rip it up
 
Counterpoints
 
– This show would never do that. Even Larson wouldn’t be callous enough to include a broken suicidal husk in a show for 6-year-old children.
 
– Trixie had decided to perform this trick for her Working Title Tour long before she even met Starlight. After Starlight left, Trixie had no choice but to perform the trick without her help, since a. that was her original intention anyway and b. the audience was already there and expecting the show to start when all the directions got bucked.
 
– The trick Trixie performs is explicitly stated as belonging to Hoofdini. The real Houdini was well-known not only for his many daring escapes from life-threatening situations, but for his many failures to escape from life-threatening situations. To say that Trixie was suicidal is to say that Hoofdini is suicidal and that is simply dum dum dum. The point is not “Woohoo free from the mortal coil! xD” but taking the escape as a personal challenge of survival. Risk-takers perform these dangerous stunts not for a desire to die but for the thrill of living.
 
– Trixie’s dramatic nonsense about “If you mess it up I’ll be a goner” et al are completely typical of all sensational stage performers who must constantly maintain the illusion of life endangerment and ultimatum. That is her job; she is an illusionist and certain fibs are necessary to maintain the illusion. Note that Fluttershy acts terrified of the manticore… but Fluttershy of all ponies would know the manticore was completely safe; she’s merely playing along to be a good audience. The manticore would have just spit Trixie out if the trick failed, which would have been, to say the least, extremely stupid. Ergo, Trixie was worried not about dying but about failing to convincingly sell her show.
 
 
So in short, no, Trixie was not suicidal in this episode for several reasons, one of them being that she was never in danger of dying
dynamicv

I agree that she was not trying to kill herself. The only thing she was going to kill because of her despair over Starlight was her career. She clearly did not desire to continue her show as a solo act anymore, and would rather end it with a failed stunt instead of just going back to something she knows she can perform on her own. So it’s kinda a symbolic suicide IMO.
Background Pony #3CA7
– This show would never do that. Even Larson wouldn’t be callous enough to include a broken suicidal husk in a show for 6-year-old children.
This isn’t actually a point, I can get how you might think it is, but it isn’t.
– Trixie had decided to perform this trick for her Working Title Tour long before she even met Starlight. After Starlight left, Trixie had no choice but to perform the trick without her help, since a. that was her original intention anyway and b. the audience was already there and expecting the show to start when all the directions got bucked.
Except there was no evidence for this, she flat out stated she couldn’t do the trick when first talking about it and only Starlight offering her help convinced her it could be done.
– The trick Trixie performs is explicitly stated as belonging to Hoofdini. The real Houdini was well-known not only for his many daring escapes from life-threatening situations, but for his many failures to escape from life-threatening situations. To say that Trixie was suicidal is to say that Hoofdini is suicidal and that is simply dum dum dum. The point is not “Woohoo free from the mortal coil! xD” but taking the escape as a personal challenge of survival. Risk-takers perform these dangerous stunts not for a desire to die but for the thrill of living.
Trixie was clearly not in a state of mind where she was enjoying herself, let alone experiencing the thrill of living. The real Houdini also knew how to escape from his stunts, he had a plan, Trixie did not.
– Trixie’s dramatic nonsense about “If you mess it up I’ll be a goner” et al are completely typical of all sensational stage performers who must constantly maintain the illusion of life endangerment and ultimatum. That is her job; she is an illusionist and certain fibs are necessary to maintain the illusion. Note that Fluttershy acts terrified of the manticore… but Fluttershy of all ponies would know the manticore was completely safe; she’s merely playing along to be a good audience.
 
Yeah, because Fluttershy of all ponies knows to play along with the act, the fact that the manticore scared her at all should be enough evidence that it was at least possibly a danger.
 
So in short, no, Trixie was not suicidal in this episode for several reasons, one of them being that she was never in danger of dying
 
Maybe she was, maybe she wasn’t, but that fact that you seem to think this was such a clear cut situation shows how hilariously out of your depth you are.
Background Pony #3CA7
@Lucky Shot  
That still doesn’t refute a single thing I said! You’d think somebody who just loves to flaunt how much smarter and wiser they are than everyone else would have enough faith in their ideas to debate properly, no? If you have a point get to it, if not then just go back to hiding behind irrelevant nonsense like you always do.
Tirimsil
Duck - Hates bronies, but is one. Go figure.
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aka Summersong
@SocDev
 
Can all of these offending posts be removed, please? It’s quite clear the intent was merely to disrupt the topic and if they remain that will be successful.
Background Pony #3CA7
@Lucky Shot  
My point was to refute the points you made and have a more in depth discussion of what you said, my callous tone was nothing more than a mirror of things you have said here before, but if it helps discussion I will no longer lower myself to that level.
Background Pony #842F
Can all of these offending posts be removed, please? It’s quite clear the intent was merely to disrupt the topic and if they remain that will be successful.
 
I’m not sure that was the case. I think the tone of the objection could have been better, and I actually agree that Trixie was probably not suicidal, but there are some valid points there. As he pointed out, Trixie explained quite clearly from the start that she couldn’t do the trick alone.  
Trixie: As great and powerful as I am, there’s one trick I’ve never been able to do – the Moonshot Manticore Mouth Dive! Only one magician has ever pulled it off – my hero, Hoofdini! You are supposed to blast yourself into the open mouth of a hungry manticore! After the manticore chews you up and swallows you, you magically step out of a box on the other side of the stage! Completely unharmed!
Starlight Glimmer: That sounds very…
Trixie: Dangerous?
Starlight Glimmer: I was gonna say cool!
Trixie: I knew I liked you for a reason. I don’t know how he did it! If I tried it, I’d get chewed up and swallowed by that manticore.
Starlight Glimmer: Not if you could use real magic.
Trixie: Obviously. Way to rub it in.
Starlight Glimmer: No, I mean, I could help! You could start the trick, and right before you got chewed up, I could use magic to save you and make you appear in the black box!
Trixie: I guess that would work… But if you made one mistake, I’d be a goner.
And frankly, if she did work out another way to survive the trick, she certainly doesn’t show it during her flight towards the manticore. She actually looks rather frightened, like it might actually be her life on the line.  
 
Honesty I think Trixie at that point was more engaging in self destructive behavior than anything. I think she realized, once Starlight had been made wise to Trixie’s desire to beat Twilight using their friendship, how badly she had screwed up with what could potentially be the first pony in ages to consider her a friend. The stress resulting from that sent her in a spiral of self destructive behavior, one aspect of which is demonstrating a lack of competency as a way to remove herself from the situation.
Background Pony #3CA7
@Background Pony #00F7  
Eh, I’d say that anyone who does something that will most likely kill them is suicidal, I mean she performed an action that would kill her if not stopped, that seems pretty suicidal to me…
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During the Live stream i was seriously concerned she would really DIE! That scene was a bit too dark for a show, that was originally meant to be a Toy Commercial for little girls. I’m glad she survived.
Tirimsil
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aka Summersong
@Background Pony #00F7
 
I appreciate someone taking the time to act like an adult and not a small child.
 
 
Your other point
 
That other BGP created a series of completely farcical pseudo-points in a futile attempt to portray them as analogous to my (wholly superior) argument and provoke my ego. He ignored the bulk of my post and relied on objecting to trivial details and straw mares; my original post already addresses the majority of his fake concerns. He wasn’t attacking my argument – he was attacking me personally, and everything that he wrote is an empty means to that end. This doofus over here @Background Pony #BA25 is either the same person, a friend of his, or some other petty little person jumping on an opportunity – but like most little dogs barking at bigger ones, they care about what I have to say a great deal more than I care about what they do. You can see the same thing occur when they harass show staff over Twitter for not appealing to their childish egos.
 
His entire purpose was an elaborate and obtuse accusation that I’m arrogant and conceited, and if he’d simply come right out and said that, I’d let him because that’s completely true. But arrogance doesn’t make me wrong, and picking up my weapons doesn’t mean you know how to use them, i.e. words that are true or effective when I say them are not magically also true or effective when anyone else does.
 
BGPs are gonna need to pick a different means of getting under my skin. Fighting me on my own turf by trying to out-condescend me? That’s a fight they’re simply not equipped to win.
 
 
Your main point
 
Trixie doesn’t state it’s a trick she “couldn’t do”; she says it’s a trick she has never been able to do, i.e. she has tried it multiple times before. Ergo, it’s not a lethal trick when failed, since she’s still here after failing it an unknown number of times (at least twice.)
 
As I’ve already said, Fluttershy acts scared of the manticore, a creature she was not afraid of half a decade ago when a wild one actually attacked her for real. The manticore in this episode not only patiently waits in his precise place on stage rather than rampage through the audience, but takes a bow after the show. Even the little girls the show is aimed towards would know better than to think the manticore was actually dangerous, since a cornerstone of the joke relies on him obviously not being it and all – but most bronies have consistently illustrated that they don’t have the sense and reason of a little girl.
 
As for Trixie’s self-destructive behavior, I can’t argue with that – she’s done little more than chew her own foot off for all three of her episodes. I simply don’t consider her to be suicidal so much as table-flipping, a habit I have rather some personal experience with.
 
By the time the show started, Trixie would have already advertised that she was going to perform the whatever the heck manticore dive. Attempting the trick solo was her only option since canceling would remove any chance of salvaging her career.
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@Lucky Shot  
My point isn’t that that BP didn’t make some slights against you, but more that, for someone disappointed at another’s use of personal attacks, you sure did fill your response with a big bundle of personal attacks.
Background Pony #171A
Trixie doesn’t state it’s a trick she “couldn’t do”; she says it’s a trick she has never been able to do, i.e. she has tried it multiple times before. Ergo, it’s not a lethal trick when failed, since she’s still here after failing it an unknown number of times (at least twice.)
I can see where you’re coming from, but I’m not sure that’s actually what she’s saying. When you look at the dialogue where she introduces the trick, there’s a statement she makes that reveals two very important details.  
“I don’t know how he did it! If I tried it, I’d get chewed up and swallowed by that manticore.”
So the first important point is fairly clear. She doesn’t know how the original trick was done. And while that doesn’t rule out her having attempted to figure it out at some point, she obviously still does not know what the secret behind it is. In fact, given that she also revealed only one magician ever pulled it off…  
“Only one magician has ever pulled it off – my hero, Hoofdini!”
…it’s not likely to be something she could just read up on and learn about either.
 
The second point is that she talks about what would happen IF she tried it. Using “if” seems to indicate quite clearly that she actually has not attempted the trick before. And for good reason, since the very next thing she says is that she’d be eaten by the manticore if she did.
 
So as much as I would like to think that Trixie had some plan in mind for what would happen if the trick failed, nothing she says in the episode gives us reason to think that. I still don’t think she wanted to die doing the trick, but I can’t help but think she knew how much trouble she’d be in without help. That kind of leaves us either to believe she’s one of the strongest adherents to “the show must go on” mentality ever, or that she is deliberately setting herself up to fail because of the aforementioned self destructive behavioral tendencies.  
“Come one, come all. Come and see the Pathetic and Friendless Trixie’s ‘Way-To-Go-Dum-Dum-You-Really-Messed-It-Up-This-Time Repentance Tour’.”
Given the way she is acting at the beginning of the show, I know which one seems the most likely to me.
 
 
@Lucky Shot  
As I’ve already said, Fluttershy acts scared of the manticore, a creature she was not afraid of half a decade ago when a wild one actually attacked her for real. The manticore in this episode not only patiently waits in his precise place on stage rather than rampage through the audience, but takes a bow after the show. Even the little girls the show is aimed towards would know better than to think the manticore was actually dangerous, since a cornerstone of the joke relies on him obviously not being it and all – but most bronies have consistently illustrated that they don’t have the sense and reason of a little girl.
Well your comment on “most bronies” aside, I actually thought Fluttershy was afraid of what the trick entailed, not the manticore itself. After all, stopping one with a thorn in it’s paw is one thing. Deliberately firing yourself at it in such a way that a single mistake ends with you being eaten is another thing entirely. Plus, even if it is well trained, it’s still dangerous enough to have a leash on it to keep it from the crowd (and likely in the correct spot as well). Moreover, as I’m sure another stage magician (like, say, Roy Horn of Siegfried & Roy, who was injured by a tiger during a show) could tell you, no matter how much you train and work with wild animals, there is still a chance they will attack or injure you at some point.
 
I’d also like to know where she got the manticore from. I suppose it’s possible she got it from Fluttershy (which might also explain why she was nervous, since Fluttershy was shown back in the last Trixie episode, “Magic Duel”, to worry when her animal friends are used in any sort of magic demonstration), but it’s more than likely not one she brought with her (because as we already covered, this is not a trick she’s attempted before). So she’s very possibly working with an animal unfamiliar with her under the bare minimum of training. With all that, I don’t think we can consider the manticore a negligible threat.
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@Lucky Shot  
Actually no, she wasn’t planning on doing the trick at first. Remember, she initially told Starlight she could never do it, then when Starlight offered to help, Trixie said that Starlight had made her show even better. In other words, she decided to do it when Starlight offered help.  
Secondly, why else would she do it FIRST. Surely that was meant to be the finale, so doing it first as if it’s the only thing she expected to do itself was telling.
Frostwolf123
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Not to be a downer, but none of these points make any sense, and there really isn’t a soft way to say it.
 
  • This isn’t a point. The episode contained what it contained. Insisting that you know better than the creators, AND insisting that your expectations come before what we actually saw is friggin ridiculous. And on top of all that, the idea that “they’d never go there” isn’t even true. Remember when Nickelodeon aired a murder suicide? The idea that a “kids show” can’t cover certain material is both highly regressive to the medium, and blatantly false.
     
  • This one is pretty flat out wrong. She never said she was planning to preform the trick. In fact, she was frustrated that she couldn’t. She clearly only decided to do it after Starlight proposed a solution, and I don’t even know how you came to this conclusion.
     
  • I really have no idea what point you’re trying to derive from this one. Aside from maybe the idea that thrill seeking isn’t a death wish. Which is true, but irrelevant. There’s a mighty huge difference between a chance of death, and a certainty of death. Beginning an act you don’t at all think you can survive is pretty much the definition of suicide. Even if you want to assume she was playing up the danger for the show, her little monologue before firing herself wasn’t heard by anyone, and there’s no reason to believe it was false. She legitimately though she would die without Starlight’s help.
     
  • And finally this last one is all completely baseless. All of it. You’re insisting that she had some previously unexplained way out, or that it was actually safe, without the slightest amount of evidence to support it. You think Fluttershy was “in on it”? We’ve seen her “acting”, and it’s not convincing. And the idea that the manticore was safe, especially by drawing on Fluttershy’s handling of them, is also pretty baseless. Just because a snake charmer knows how to handle a snake doesn’t mean it’s not a dangerous and venomous animal. If anything, Fluttershy’s reaction only confirms the danger.
     
    But more importantly, the whole argument is basically relying on the idea that being a kids show means there’s no danger. You’ve concluded that there must be some unstated or off screen safety feature they just aren’t showing us because your personal expectations of the shows rating forbid actual death. And I can’t even begin to express how backwards and ridiculous that is. You’re basically saying that your expectations of the show actually define it’s content. And I’m sorry but no, they don’t.
     
    If you think they’d never go there, well I’m sorry, but they did.
Background Pony #3CA7
I appreciate someone taking the time to act like an adult and not a small child.
Indeed, this thread was very much missing a person like that.
Blah blah I’m superior to veryone blah blah…
I’m not even going to dignify most of this with a response as it is irrelevant to the topic and mostly just baseless attacks and undeserved ego boosting.
BGPs are gonna need to pick a different means of getting under my skin. Fighting me on my own turf by trying to out-condescend me? That’s a fight they’re simply not equipped to win.
True enough, you have proven that you are the master of baseless and irrelevant condescension.
Your main point
Trixie doesn’t state it’s a trick she “couldn’t do”; she says it’s a trick she has never been able to do, i.e. she has tried it multiple times before. Ergo, it’s not a lethal trick when failed, since she’s still here after failing it an unknown number of times (at least twice.)
That is not the only way those words can be interpreted, the fact that she says later that she would be a goner if Starlight did her part wrong proves that she has never done it.
As I’ve already said, Fluttershy acts scared of the manticore, a creature she was not afraid of half a decade ago when a wild one actually attacked her for real.
That was a wild manticore, this one looks clearly different and is identified as a pony eating manticore, it’s entirely possible it is either a more dangerous subspecies or was trained to eat ponies.
The manticore in this episode not only patiently waits in his precise place on stage rather than rampage through the audience,
It was chained up dum-dum, it coulden’t do that even if it wanted to.
Even the little girls the show is aimed towards would know better than to think the manticore was actually dangerous, since a cornerstone of the joke relies on him obviously not being it and all – but most bronies have consistently illustrated that they don’t have the sense and reason of a little girl.
Blah blah superiority complex…
As for Trixie’s self-destructive behavior, I can’t argue with that – she’s done little more than chew her own foot off for all three of her episodes. I simply don’t consider her to be suicidal so much as table-flipping, a habit I have rather some personal experience with.
If you perform an action that will kill you if not interrupted, you are suicidal, and once again they imply multiple times during the episode with words like “goner” that it was lethal.
By the time the show started, Trixie would have already advertised that she was going to perform the whatever the heck manticore dive. Attempting the trick solo was her only option since canceling would remove any chance of salvaging her career.
 
So? Her reputation was already comepletely destroyed, it’s not like saying there was a change of plans would do much more, especially when she no longer has a way to survive the act.
 
But oh well, denial isn’t just a river in Egypt and I doubt you will respond to anyone else here who also made good points, you seem to have little interest in having an intellectual debate on the meaning of the episode and seem to post on here mostly to just insult others and inflate your own sense of ego, if you want to point out flaws in may argument that’s fine, heck I don’t even care if you insult me since it gives me something to laugh at, but attacking others and accusing me of sockpuppeting or collusion just to try and act like you have more importance than you really do is truly sad.
Background Pony #2AF2
@Lucky Shot  
Ok, I have to say, your quite frankly being a jerk.If YOU didn’t act defensive after the BP posted his\her comment, none of this would have happend.
 
@Background Pony #F105  
I completly agree with you here.Not only with your issue with the person above, but also about Trixie.
Background Pony #C1C0
I’m not really ready to make a big wall of text right now, but I would agree that trixie was intent on suicide if it wasn’t for the very last second where she panicked. Last I checked if you already know you’re heading towards your willingly chosen path of death you do not panic about it. (Correct me if i’m wrong, but this was my own experience with my first suicide attempt.)
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