Starlight Glimmer- What is the opinion of her still?

@Philweasel  
You have to factor in the point that Starlight’s already shaky sanity goes out the window when she’s mad though. A opponent more savvy than Twilight should be able to take advantage of that, Twilight trips her up a few times by accident.
 
I’m assuming that’s Season 5 Starlight? We never seen a rematch between Guidance Counselor Starlight VS Principal Princess Twilight but in S8 we don’t see Starlight freak out or displays “shaky sanity.” Starlight’s very stable in S8, surprisingly. S8 Starlight actually deals less with sanity slippage but more with shortsightedness and lack of patience.
 
I don’t really care what goes on with the hypothetical Starlight vs Glimmer, but I DO care about seeing current, most stable version of Starlight at full power. She cleaned Discord’s physical body with one charged shot, that is exceptional, considering not many ponies can do beams like that. And I DO mean that.
 
Her abilities are nothing to scoff at, either. She and Twilight are very versatile magic users who can practically learn ANY unicorn spell, not limited by their Cutie Marks (As in, Celestia and Luna have signature spells that only they can naturally cast without much effort or training, so does Rarity). However, normal unicorns get shoehorned into certain classes and jobs because other spells unrelated to their CM are very hard for them to learn.
 
Twilight and Starlight apparently, have the special ability to unlock ALL unicorn classes and spells with relative ease. IF they ever trained for combat (which they never did) then…they could be a force to be reckoned with–at least, in their universe.

@tehwatever  
I’d like to mention that Starlight doesn’t have the ability to unlock ALL unicorn classes and spells with relative ease. That’s Twilight’s thing. Starlight actually complains at one point that Twilight copied a spell that she spent years creating. I’m pretty sure that everything Starlight did, she put a lot of time and effort into.
 
I’m also pretty sure that Discord’s physical form is fairly fragile. He literally falls apart constantly, and his most prominent feat of strength is picking up Twilight. I’m more impressed that Starlight vaporised the stands and part of the forest, which is impressive. That’s the kind of horn blast impact we’ve only seen from Nightmare Moon.
 
I do think she’s in the top 10 ponies I’d want on my side in a fight, alongside the Pillars and Tempest Shadow (she might knock Somnambula off the #5 spot). I still think she’d lose quite badly to Ember though, and possibly Thorax and Pharynx. And any given monster is more than a single pony can handle alone.

@Philweasel  

Again, that’s Season 5 Starlight. Which, up to that point, was never given any indication of her talent as a spellcaster and probably never had proper training. We knew she’s a CM manipulator, but we didn’t know how freaky she was as a spellcaster. Only by the end of S5 do we see her shine with self-levitation to the point of flight, and jerry-rigging Starswirl’s spell to basically put her and Twilight in a checkmate loop. Season 6 is the season where Starlight’s status as ubermage is set. She was basically Unicorn Twilight at that point.
 
I think it’s a Goku & Vegeta thing. Twilight just has the raw talent to learn any spell easily, but Starlight is cast from more or less the same mold Twilight is. Even if Vegeta will never reach Goku’s level of talent and skill, he’s always not far behind.
 
If Starlight complains at the end of S5 premiere that Twilight copied a spell easily, then Twilight complained at the beginning of S7 that Starlight was a sponge and she ran out of things to teach her. Granted, Starlight’s been doing nothing but practicing magic but even then, her rate of learning took Twilight by surprise.
 
SO. If Starlight didn’t have Twilight’s unique skill of instant mastery, then she’s probably just a freak and a quick learner. Nevertheless she climbed to nearly Princess Twilight level at base form, no powerups and transformations and became basically Twilight’s sparring partner. I just want to see her at full power, really.

Starlight and Sombra is a fight I’d like to see. I get the feeling she would be very susceptible to his fear spells.

@Philweasel  

Note that teleportation was Twilight’s signature spell and she spams it day in day out. Now Starlight does that too. There is almost nothing that Twilight can do, that Starlight can’t. So if Twilight can unlock ALL spells with ease, then Starlight can unlock almost ALL with ease.
 
in fact we even saw this in her childhood flashback.
 
Sunburst showed her how to do a spell, and her performance increased significantly. I think this ties into the gap between S5 Starlight and current S8 Starlight. With Twilight as her teacher and teaching her things, Starlight just blazes from one spell to the next, and now she’s a top tier spellcaster.

@tehwatever  

 
I think she’s just hyperfocused. Starlight is often amazing ignorant of things outside her specific interests, which are mostly psychology and spellwork.
 
She only started using teleportation after being Twilight’s apprentice for a fair while, and she still fails to use it all that much or show Twilight’s skill with it. She only spammed it once, in a controlled situation during a class that she had obviously prepared for. In general Starlight doesn’t seem one for subtlety, which I think is why people overestimate her power.
 
In short, I don’t think Starlight vaporises chaos gods and blindsides the Princesses because she’s skilled with magic, but because she struggles to regulate her own power due to her own lack of control and care. Whenever more complicated magic is requires, Twilight steps up. Notably in Shadow Play it was Sunburst and Twilight working on the spell craft, with Starlight apparently not even being asked to help. In “The Crystalling”, Twilight roped Cadance into helping her with spellwork rather than go find Starlight (and in fact Starlight doesn’t offer anything bar power to the eventual ritual, which was all Cadance, Twilight and Sunburst).
 
This isn’t to say she’s bad at magic. But as a skilled, adaptable mage, I’d rate Mistmane, Star Swirl and Twilight over her. Starlight’s primary advantage over Twilight is she’s a skilled fighter, with excellent reflexes and awareness. To be fair she also seems to be better at practical, off the hoof magic than Star Swirl and Twilight, who often seem to prefer to study a spell in detail before actually casting it. Indeed, formal book learning seems to bore her.
 
…something she has in common with Sunset Shimmer, funnily enough.

@Philweasel  
Ofc not, Teleportation is Twilight’s bread and butter. It’s second nature to Twilight. She even used it in combat against both NMM and Tirek.
 
Season 8 though, Starlight is comfy enough to use the spell to casually help her get back up to her desk (after falling) and she is also comfy enough to go back and forth between Twiligh’s office and the restaurant where she was counseling Rd and Rares.
 
Again, I’m not saying she can use it at Twi’s level, but it’s no denying that Twilight flat out said she ran out of things to teach Starlight, and Starlight even taught Twilight some spells. She’s very capable to spam teleportation, but it’s not her go-to spell.
 
As for spell assignment…wasn’t it because both Twilight and Sunburst were the ones who showed major interest, certified academic rigor and discipline to work on the spell? They WERE properly trained magic scholars after all, which was helpful for coming up with complicated but safe and well thought out spells.
 
Also Starswirl didn’t even LOOK at Starlight. If Starlight had been kissing his ass Starswirl would probably ask her too, but good old Beardo had pride as big as his hat so ofc he didn’t wanna work with an ex-villain who talked back. Twi and Sunburst also knew “Ye Olde Ponish” and since Starswirl’s notes are in that language…
 
Starlight had the tendency to jerry rig something, improvise and not go by procedure. Starlight’s good, but to anyone else except Twilight, Starlight might as well be an unlicensed witch doctor while Twilight is a certified surgeon.
 
Even if Starlight’s power level isn’t high, she’s THE perfect staple spellcaster. Versatile, adaptable, and excellent for borderline any situation except for situations which require highly specific spells.
 
If all the other top tier godlike magic users are “flagship” devices, then Starlight’s a “flagship killer.”

@tehwatever  
I’d worry that if she went outside of what she knows without someone teaching her, Glimmer would screw up pretty epically. As you said, she doesn’t seem to be properly academically trained. She’s also a little hasty, and highly overconfident. She’s more of a combat mage than a magical scholar. I once compared her to a fantastic musician who never learned to read a music score, impressive for their natural talent but limited all the same.
 
I’m not dismissing her. In terms of power and natural talent I tend to put her on the same level as Star Swirl, but feel she’s held back from being on his level by her lack of academic rigor. I feel she’s better at garden variety magic than Twilight, and a far better fighter. Twilight does however has her ability to instantly copy a spell she’s seen once (which has proven consistently useful) and can pull of the magic friendship powers of Deus Ex Machina with the rest of the Mane 6.
 
To be fair to Twilight in another sense, she doesn’t really have a lot of time for magic study anymore. She’s ludicrously busy, mostly on stuff that doesn’t directly involve magic. Even at the School she’s primarily a history teacher. I’d kinda expect Starlight to be better than her, because Starlight has enough free time to be actively bored.
 
I’ve got no basis for this, but I think she’s on the same level talentwise as Sunset Shimmer. Obviously she’s a lot better now of course, since even Sunset’s telekinisis is clearly somewhat rusty these days.
 
Tempest Shadow has more raw power, but is held back by the fact that it’s all she has.

@Philweasel
 
@tehwatever
 
To summarize your discussion:
 
Raw power: Tempest Shadow > Twilight > Starlight > Starswirl.
 
Skill to create apells: Starswirl > Starlight > Twilight > Tempest Shadow
 
Potential to achieve more magic: Twilight > Starlight > Tempest >> Starswirl.
 
I believe Celestia and Luna have more raw magic yet, but Twilight can stock all magic if the situation amerites cause her element (Fight vs Tirek, elements of harmony, drain magic of magic creatures and Rainbow Power.

@Philweasel  
I suspect Starlight couldn’t practice magic in her office even during her ample free time, that’s why she was bored. I can’t imagine Twilight would let her, a school staff, doing dodgy experimental spells during school hours, within school grounds, with students nearby.
 
Still, it’s good to see Twilight and Starlight performing syncronized combo spells in multiple occasions. I suspect Twilight is glad to have somepony able to keep up with her at magic.
 
I really want to see a Twilight x Starlight combo at their 100%, no nerf, no disables, base form.

@Hakirayleigh  
Yeah pretty much.

@Hakirayleigh  
I believe Celestia is decent enough, but all those mentioned exceed her overall. And that Luna is quite a bit weaker than her sister, but that the very specialised nature of her magic makes her very useful none the less (no one else has demonstrated dream walking abilities).
 
Cadance isn’t as useful in a straight fight, but her ability to empower others and serve as a focus of their power (ala Twilight) makes her top tier. And she’s not bad one on one, as proven by her fight with the Tazzlewurm.
 
I rate Starswirl as really powerful. He exceeds Starlight in all respects, though as mentioned the friendship powers of Twilight and Cadance make them potentially far superior to him in certain situations. In day to day magic use though, Starswirl is tough to beat. He’s the source of the element of magic after all.
 
Tempest is somewhat difficult to rate, as she’s a magic knight rather than a straight magic user. And her magic is highly unusual to boot. She pretty much has to be judged on her merits at the end of the day, which are many. She’s fast, tough, strong, an excellent martial artist, a good tactician and has enough omph in that horn to counter a blast empowered by all four princesses. If it wasn’t for the fact that she can’t shield, teleport, fly, or perform any other fancy magic tricks she would be OP as all hell.
 
And we’re all forgetting the true overpowered magic user, superior to all others.  

@tehwatever
 
I thought Twi ran out of “friendship” things to teach Star? Not magic. In Royal Problem Twi used a spell to project herself into a ballerina toy, and Star had no idea how Twi was doing it. So there’s still spells that Twi knows that Star doesn’t.
 
Until we get more evidence (because this could easily just be specific episodes playing fast and loose with her powers) I’m not sure how strong Star’s telekinesis is. Have we seen her lift anything particularly heavy? Because in Uncommon Bond she grunted in exertion lifting one of Sun’s bags, then in Road to Friendship she struggled to lift Trix’s caravan. Compare to Twilight who can lift dams and stop entire armies.

Sorry, she struggled to lift Hoof’s caravan.

@Background Pony #EE03  
I actually think Starlight’s telekinesis is weaker than Trixie’s.
 
Starlight is pretty much the poster child for ‘sacrificed basic skills for awesome power’.

@Philweasel  
I don’t believe Starswrirl has a lot of raw power cause he is really old, if we talk only unicorns. Even Starlight has more stamina than him.
 
I agree Flurry will be more powerful than her mother, but I doubt if she achieved Daybreaker or Nightmare Moon powers.
 
@Background Pony #EE03  
Yeah, Starlight needs a basic spells refinement.

@Background Pony #EE03  
“No no no she’s already good at this. She mastered this. She taught me about this one!”  
Starlight Glimmer, the pony who couldn’t figure out how to navigate through basic social interactions, were good at friendship lessons, MASTERED friendship lessons, and TAUGHT Twilight, The freaking princess of friendship, a friendship lesson?!
 
…I seriously hope they were MAGIC lessons Twilight was talking about, otherwise Twilight would have to rethink why she had the title in the first place.
 
@Philweasel  
Depends. Starlight uses Telekinesis as a crutch / coping mechanism like a fidget spinner when she’s upset because that’s one of the first spells she ever learned, so it’s probably bread and butter to her. She also, happens to use Telekinesis to self-levitate to the point of flight–with enough grace and control as to fight a mid-air laser battle with a princess.
 
Maybe Starlight can’t lift heavy objects with Telekinesis while Trixie can (Trixie has to load and unload her equipment everytime, so she’s probably good at lifting heavy) but Starlight knows certain techniques with Telekinesis that Trixie probably doesn’t.
 
Starlight knows basic skills. She used to abuse magic to do the littlest things. Telekinesis is the MOST BASIC a unicorn can do, and Starlight managed to conjure up a cake with telekinesis. Certainly she’s not lacking in that department. So I highly doubt that she lacks fundamentals. She DOES lack formal training, which Twilight rectified somewhat. Like your musician analogy. She has “the sense” but she probably has developed so many bad habits she has to undo.
 
NOT lifting heavy is probably one her weakness. She probably been skipping Lift Heavy Day to work on tricks and other more advanced moves.

@tehwatever  

 
That would be called “shilling.” One of many instances where Starlight is extolled as this uber great/wise/talented pony in ways that even surpass the mane six.

@tehwatever  

 
I mean, she did teach Twilight a lesson in No Second Prances.

@tehwatever
 
Yeah, I like Starlight, but I rolled my eyes at that line.

@Hakirayleigh  

 
I don’t know, Starswirl has never displayed any weakness of age, in fact he’s pretty strident and energetic. Being a tiny equine Gandalf, I’d almost expect him to be exceptionally robust (Gandalf surviving a fist fight with a Balrog and falling into a lake at terminal velocity as he did).
 

 
Out of fairness, I don’t count Sombra, Nightmare Moon or Daybreaker. I consider all three significantly more powerful than any ‘normal’ magic user, though Starswirl might be able to hang.
 
Not to mention Daybreaker (likely) doesn’t even exist.
 
@tehwatever  
I note that when I say ‘Trixie’s better’, that I consider Trixie to be a very competent magic user in her own right (especially post Starlight tutoring).
 
Trixie’s problem is that she placed herself on a ludicrous pedestal. Even Tempest Shadow couldn’t handle an Ursa Minor in direct confrontation.  

 
Trixie I note did slightly better than Starlight against the Maulwurf.

Are we talkin’ power and abilities here? Nice.
 
Though I think I’ve posted somewhere else what I thought of it.

@Spinny  
We get it. You really hate Starlight.

@Spinny  
Now re-supply your lessons to your mentor is “shilling”. Take a break about this post, man.

@MangoBox  
@Hakirayleigh  
come on, guys. give Spinny a break - at least he isn’t hypocritical about his dislike of the Glim as some of the regulars here are.