Season 7 Episode Discussion [Speculation, Discussion, Spoilers] (SPOILER YOUR LEAKS)

@gingerninja666
 
@The Smiling Pony
 
@gingerninja666
 
I never said I expected Fluttershy to instantly change and become perfect.
 
I just don’t enjoy having multiple episodes that are about roughly the same subject: Fluttershy combating her shyness. Just like how I don’t enjoy the fact that 90% of Applejack’s episodes are about her family somehow.
 
Recent seasons have handled it better.

@hironakamura  
Oh, yeah, forgot about the dream surveillance state thing she has going on… I guess she has good roles in those.

On another note, this thread has just passed half a million views! :D

@The Smiling Pony  

 
And I don’t really enjoy this kind of mean-spirited metaphor for fan criticism. Even ignoring the episode’s story, just the way the episode feels, how everything goes to shit really fast and focuses really hard on how everyone is mad at something, it just makes the episode have a very negative and depressing tone to it.
 
@EotD  

 
…yes, and this is the episode discussion thread.
 
What’s your point?

@hironakamura
 
I’m going to say something controversial here. This’ll get me killed.
 
I think if the cast actually left the show or became VERY margainalized and Star’s group took over the show’s slice of life episodes, Starlight would very likely end up looking better. Because she’d have to because she’d have so much more screen time and spent time interacting with other characters.
 
The great ironing (not a typo I just like spelling irony as ironing) of STarlight is she actually DOES NOT HAVE THAT MUCH SCREENTIME. She’s talked about a lot, and what she does tends to be important, but much of her time on screen is spent in service of a plot or acting in a very specific role such as being a voice of wisdom. When I get to see Star just chilling, I acutally like a lot of what I see. It’s not extremely zany like a lot of the cast is, but I find it likeable. Like I like her moments of playfullness and dry weariness in Rock Solid Friendship. I know many disagree, but that’s how I see it. I disagree with how perfect people say Star is portrayed as, but I do think she needs more actual screen time.

@Background Pony #6E7D  
My point is that this isn’t really talking about the episode but instead talking about how we should react to it. I like talking about an episode, what makes a plot work or not, how the characters interact and the faults it may have. I don’t like talking about how you need to grow a thicker skin after watching the episode or how the creative cast insulted the fandom. For instants I disagree a lot with Gingerninja but when we do talk, it’s usually about the episode and the characters, not the cast or whether or not you should learn to laugh at yourself. Speaking of which…
 
 
@gingerninja666  
Starlight does have a lot of screen time. She’s at Spike/CMC levels at the moment and the Mane 6 are getting very reduced screen time this season.

@Background Pony #6E7D  
It didn’t feel mean spirited at all to me, but that’s just me.
 
For the target audience, the examples don’t stand out and make sense. For the older fans, they can contextualize “the lesson” with a few examples they’ve at least read places if not espoused themselves, and hopefully have a bit of a laugh and appreciate the meta.
 
Other shows referencing their fandoms have been a lot meaner or crasser, and that’s for shows that don’t have fandoms on 4chan (with the particular tone that brings forth) or have staff insulted and mocked for several years running. This was, at the very extreme worst, the equivalent of a Starbucks barista saying “yes I know the Grande is actually small” after the 30th time you mention what “grande” means yet keep coming back for more coffee.

@EotD
 
There are different types of screen time to me. If you spend your time on screen being used as a tool of exposition or plot related stuff, or being used in a way that narrows down how you act then that’s not really your screen time.

@EotD  
No, she’s not at their level. She has less than ten appearances on the show and only five episodes are about her.

@gingerninja666  
>I think if the cast actually left the show or became VERY margainalized and Star’s group took over the show’s slice of life episodes, Starlight would very likely end up looking better. Because she’d have to because she’d have so much more screen time and spent time interacting with other characters.
 
A lot of people actually believe this. Starlight would be fitting as the main protagonist but in her own show. Like in Gen 5 or something after the mane 6 are no longer the focus. In Gen 4, I think Starlight’s appearance could have been used as sparingly as Zecora’s or the CMCs appearing only to help the mane 6 but NOT directly save the day for them.
 
If they are gonna have Starlight as the “chosen one” then she really needed more screen time for development as to why she’s the “chosen one.” But she never got that and to me it felt like she was mistreated and neglected.
 
EDIT: Not related but lol, I just figured out why Smokescreen was the character added in Transformers Prime the way he was added. It was because in Transformers G1, any problem was easily solved by Smokescreen’s smokescreen. Lol. It didn’t matter what the situation was, if he pumped out smoke, all the Decepticons go blind no matter what.

Starlight was still a supporting character and has yet to be considered as a main character, which is why she didn’t got much screen time

@hironakamura
 
I don’t even think Star is consciously thought of as the chosen one. Everything she does is too situational. They’re just trying to make Starlight have worth and show that she’s actually learned stuff, but they perhaps go overboard with the execution at times. Some people think the problem with Star is that she’s not learned anything and is still a terrible person.

@Pepsi Twist  
On a seasonal level she is, she gets about as much screen time as they do over the course of a season, at least so far.

@hironakamura
 
@gingerninja666
 
@gingerninja666
 
i’ll admit, with recent complaints about some of the characters’ development going in loops or regressed, having no idea of the backstory on starlight herself, and a huge cast to have replace old spots. At very least for one season.

@Background Pony #6E7D  
>how will I ever improve if nobody tells me what I’m doing wrong?
 
Words to live by, bro. Mad respect.

@Jarkes  
Dude, I know your heart is in the right place, but there is such a thing as constructive criticism.

The new episode’s portrayal of fans and writers is quite interesting to me. The overall message is about how a work’s message will not always connect with its audience, with the Mane 6 representing Larson and his peers and the Journal representing MLP itself. Each other pony or group of ponies represents a different subset of MLP’s (or any work of fiction, really) fandom/audience. Some of my thoughts:
 
Starlight Glimmer represents adult fans who enjoy the show for what it is AND respect the staff. When Starlight sees other fans being shitty to the writers, she will call out bad behavior and will try to cheer up the writers with words of encouragement.
 
Toola Roola & Coconut Cream represent young fans who take the show’s message to heart. They are the audience MLP’s writers strive to bring joy to the most. They also like it when adults find meaning in the show (represented by Twilight’s desire for any and all ponies to benefit from the lessons, not just foals).
 
The CMCs represent people who jump on a bandwagon because of its popularity instead of its quality. This isn’t always a bad thing, and is unavoidable when something becomes popular very fast.
 
The ponies from Fillydelphia are collectors/con-goers, obviously. Not all of them will benefit from the show’s messages (I would hope most adults are good enough people that they don’t need to). A few of them might not even like it for its entertainment value. But even so, they are respectful of the writers and hold them in high enough regard to travel long distances to conventions to meet them.
 
Fluttershy represents a writer responding to criticism with a cogent argument. But arguing with the commenters rarely works against the Fluttershy Harasser, who represents opinionated fans who refuse to change their viewpoint even when the writers cave and respond to their demands.
 
Old mare yelling at wings could be the fans who hate change, but since Quibble Pants already covered that I think she’s probably a direct reference to the “THANKS MA LARSON” crowd who blame writers for things out of their control.
 
Applejack represents the futility of trying to respond to every fan and trying to please them all.
 
The Journalist represents fans who forget the writers are real people with feelings. Also fans who put words in their mouths or spread/believe misinformation about their opinions (“The writers hate the Mane 6” for example). Resulting in fandom drama directed at a straw-man of the writers. Thus the writers’ online personas become works of fiction themselves.
 
Anyone else feel free to add onto this. There are plenty of other ponies to analyse in depth but I’m tired.

@gingerninja666  

 
My problems with her are:
 
-A lot of her episodes follow the same formula of her trying to solve a friendship problem with a magic spell, then it backfires and she scrambles to fix it. She’s like…the Johnny Test pony.  
-She’s just a rehashed S1 Twilight. OP magic, bad social skills.  
-She doesn’t really add anything new or interesting to the group. She’s too similar to Twilight, as previously stated.  
-Furthermore, she doesn’t have much chemistry with anyone except Twilight, and to a lesser extent, Trixie  
-Yes, she keeps worrying about her dark past even though literally everyone has forgiven her  
-I liked her better as a villain. Stop reforming every villain reeeeee

So does the Friendship Book include the letters to Celestia?

@Sunset’s Minion  

 
This too, yes.
 
I criticize the show not out of hatred, or anger at the staff, I criticize the show because I love it and want to see it improve.
 
But this is the internet, and anything negative tends to get lumped in with the loudest, most obnoxious whiners. That and, some of the staff like Jim, are of the “it’s a show for little girls, stop thinking so hard about it” mentality, sadly.

@SquiggyBomb  

I come back after losing a 6 hour session of Civilization Beyond Earth (goddamn do I love Civilization) to see this show getting compared to TTG.
 
I’m not surprised. Just disappointed.

@Dustcan  
For a show as long-running as this… It was pretty much inevitably going to happen.

@SquiggyBomb
 
I’d say it has to. Since Twilight read out something she said in season 2 word for word. And the book contains stuff on Twilight as a unicorn.

@SquiggyBomb  
It’s one of the biggest plotholes of the episode, dude. But that’s what current MLP does, it’s too reliant on the bronies to accept anything the show does as automatically good.