Season 7 Episode Discussion [Speculation, Discussion, Spoilers] (SPOILER YOUR LEAKS)

Background Pony #5212
Even though Spike was absence I think he'll be in Rarity mane episode and zeppelin episode.

Anyone think so?
Background Pony #B776
Yeeaaahhh, this episode was pretty much "Teen Titans Go!"-levels of directly speaking to the audience. About as subtle as a kick in the nuts. Even going so far as to directly reference very specific things that people have complained about for a long time.

Hey, writing staff. As a writer myself, when I receive criticism, I don't cry and whine and get all butthurt over it, I think about it and decide whether or not I agree. If I agree, I keep that criticism in mind when writing future stories. After all, how will I ever improve if nobody tells me what I'm doing wrong? If I don't agree, I calmly explain why I don't agree. If the criticism is not valid, like someone just whining about something subjective, then I just ignore it, or I point out why it's not valid. I don't make ridiculous un-subtle metaphors for criticisms against me.

And then they take it even further by having the two young fillies represent the target audience, and show how they love and praise things instead of tolerating, basically saying "at least the little girls like the show!"….yeah, this entire episode basically comes off as "you are wrong and bad for criticizing the show, fandom. This is for little girls, and at least they appreciate it!"

I'm also a bit disgusted at comments I'm seeing over at EQD, people agreeing with this sentiment of "shut up and stop complaining!!!"….what, we're not allowed to criticize things? We just have to shut up and watch the silly colored ponies prance around on screen? That's the kind of thinking that led to G3 / G3.5, you dinguses. If nobody ever stepped up and criticized the show, striving to make it better, then G4 would not exist as we know it. It would have been more G3 / G3.5 crap.
hironakamura
Artist -

@Spinny
@gingerninja666

True, but like I said, I want to actually SEE Starlight actually being a friend to them. Actually showing the scene where she consoled Rarity would have helped a lot.

Starlight's friendship with Twilight's friends are "implied" to say the least. Always shown in montage form and there really wasn't any substantial on screen development on how she earned their friendship. I don't even remember any background ponies fearing Starlight for learning about what she did and then later on warming up to her after getting to know her a little more. A simple detail like that could be considered development but no such time was invested in her character. Everything about her is "implied."

I remember how Teen Titans handled how Terra joined them for the first time. One of the most memorable moments for me was how Terra had a harder time earning Raven's trust because she's careful in choosing her friends more than the other Titans. Starlight, as the new comer, had no episodes where she one on one-ed with the original main cast.
Background Pony #77DE
@Background Pony #ED53

I'd be very surprised if we didn't see him reacting to Rarity without her mane.

I kinda want the episode to end with Spike giving Rarity a speech about how even without her mane, she's still the prettiest mare he knows.
Jarkes
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GOKAAAAI... SILVER!
@Background Pony #6E7D

And here we have yet another example of exactly the kind of "critic" the episode was talking about.

There's a difference between criticism and harassment. One you'd do well to learn, frankly.

And I love how you conveniently forget that many fillies were acting just as bad as the adults. Because that doesn't fit your persecution complex narrative.
Background Pony #1AA8
@hironakamura

I think I just see their dynamic as different to a lot of people. I still see the cast and Star as being less close than Twi is with the girls, and Star having a more subordinate role to them. She respects them because of how much they helped her, but she's not a member of their core group. She has her own friends that she casually chills with, like Trixie.
Background Pony #B776
@Jarkes
@Background Pony #6E7D

And here we have yet another example of exactly the kind of "critic" the episode was talking about.

There's a difference between criticism and harassment. One you'd do well to learn, frankly.

???

Please point out what part of my post is "harassment" ?
The Smiling Pony
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Some people seem very thin skinned when it comes to some light ribbing. Learn to laugh at yourself a bit; if you can't from a cartoon show, you won't be able to handle it well IRL.
Jarkes
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Magical Inkwell - Wrote MLP fanfiction consisting of at least around 1.5k words, and has a verified link to the platform of their choice
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GOKAAAAI... SILVER!
@Background Pony #6E7D

Not your post specifically, but the show staff gets TONS of harassment over "fans" whining about every little thing, and those "fans" cry about them "ignoring criticism hurr durr".

THAT is what this episode was making fun of. The entitled manbabies who want this show to cater to them and them only.
Background Pony #B776
@The Smiling Pony
Some people seem very thin skinned when it comes to some light ribbing. Learn to laugh at yourself a bit; if you can't from a cartoon show, you won't be able to handle it well IRL.

Directly referencing very specific complaints about the show is a little bit beyond "light ribbing", I'd say. Especially when some of those complaints were pretty valid, like pointing out how Fluttershy kept having episode after episode about learning to be less shy, and that lesson didn't seem to stick until six seasons into the show.

And it's not just this episode, but the fandom as a whole, expressing this anti-criticism sentiment, that rubs me the wrong way. I've had people scream at me to "leave the fandom if you hate the show so much", in response to me saying that I didn't like an episode.

So yes, of course I'm going to not like an episode that seems to openly embrace the anti-criticism mindset that I've seen around here for years, portraying critics as whiny babies that cry over everything in un-constructive ways.

@Jarkes
@Background Pony #6E7D

Not your post specifically, but the show staff gets TONS of harassment over "fans" whining about every little thing, and those "fans" cry about them "ignoring criticism hurr durr".

THAT is what this episode was making fun of. The entitled manbabies who want this show to cater to them and them only.

But why even respond to those people? Why not just ignore them? I don't give any attention to people who whine and cry about things, I only give attention to criticism that is well thought out and explained.

Even going along with what you said, that essentially means that this is a "vent" episode from the staff…rather unprofessional, I'd say, to make an episode like this. It's something I'd expect from Teen Titans Go!, not FIM.
NostalgiaSchmaltz
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@gingerninja666
It does make sense, yes, but it's still a bit of a problem to have, what was it, four separate episodes about "Fluttershy learns to be less shy". It wasn't until S4 that they began to work towards fixing this, and it didn't start really showing up in other episodes until S6. Too little, too late.
EotD
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@Jarkes
What is it with the fillies thing? They showed the fillies were assholes as well, that's not really a point in anyone's favor.
The Smiling Pony
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@Background Pony #6E7D
I've bitched a lot myself about Fluttershy's constant assertiveness episodes and Rarity's selective generosity or outright coldness; I knew exactly what sort of complaints where being parodied because I've made them myself. And I giggled out loud like a child at them.

It's a cartoon about colourful ponies, we should be able to handle some fun-poking. If anything, they also poked fun at themselves along the way.
gingerninja666
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Kaze ni Nare
@NostalgiaSchmaltz

This is going to sound VERY splitting hairs-y here, but I ddin't even think they were all the same. I thought each one addressed a different element of shyness. Filli Vanilli, for instance, was about shyness keeping you from doing something you loved, and Scare Master was about stepping outside of your comfort zone and deciding for yourself if it was a thing worth doing based on factors other than your shyness. SM even directly mentioned Filli Vanilli, and her development in the former was why she was able to do the latter, even if it was hard.
The Smiling Pony
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@gingerninja666
Nonsense, we all know all it takes is one stern talking to and a single experience in order to change your character forever. This is evidenced by all the former IRL introverts that went to a party with a friend once and are now the life of the show wherever they go.
EotD
Magical Inkwell - Wrote MLP fanfiction consisting of at least around 1.5k words, and has a verified link to the platform of their choice
Birthday Cake - Celebrated MLP's 7th birthday
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

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Faust be damned (Get it? =D ) When is Saturday so we can move fucking past this?. A) It's an episode that pokes fun at the fandom, get over it. B) It's an episode, if people don't like it, that's valid, don't be trying to vindicate your POV on how the show should be viewed. C) It's a fucking episode!

Honestly I don't like the episode because it has poor story structure which revolves around basically one meta joke and I'm not a fan of meta humor. Also cause I found it rather depressing honestly. But people enjoy it fine. Can we not make a deal out of this?
hironakamura
Artist -

@Background Pony #2CEE
@hironakamura

I think I just see their dynamic as different to a lot of people. I still see the cast and Star as being less close than Twi is with the girls, and Star having a more subordinate role to them. She respects them because of how much they helped her, but she's not a member of their core group. She has her own friends that she casually chills with, like Trixie.

I agree with this. She's not meant to be friends with them. She's like the CMC. But unlike the CMC, she saves the day all the time if not the most reasonable of all the voices of reason on the show. So instead of looking like the mane 6's subordinate, she looks like their superior. In fact, she's so superior that she was given a role to correct life issues which involve two of the show's pegged adult role models, Celestia and Luna.

I don't think Starlight needs to be friends with the mane 6 but investing time in showing one-one-one episodes with them would really have developed her personality on how she behaves in different situations and with different people. It would have been nice if there was a mix of who had the conflict and who was the resolver. Let's say Starlight had a problem with something and RD helps her out and they get to bond in that episode. Then later on you could mix it up with Fluttershy having a problem and Starlight helps her out and again they bond. Its a case of "showing" us instead of just "telling" us about this character called Starlight Glimmer.
gingerninja666
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Kaze ni Nare
@The Smiling Pony

This all ties into the problem I mentioned having with the entire show. The way morals are presented creates this expectation for a character to completely learn and change from it, meaning the characters would VERY quickly become perfect.
The Smiling Pony
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Toola Roola - For helping others attend the 2019 Community Collab
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends.
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@hironakamura
Nitpicking, but while Celestia may be, Luna is never used as a role model; her every appearance is her being taught a lesson, screwing up somehow, or just being overly cold and distrustful.
hironakamura
Artist -

@The Smiling Pony
@gingerninja666
Nonsense, we all know all it takes is one stern talking to and a single experience in order to change your character forever. This is evidenced by all the former IRL introverts that went to a party with a friend once and are now the life of the show wherever they go.

Lol. All I see is Link, Quote or Reply. Where is the Upvote link for this comment?
hironakamura
Artist -

@The Smiling Pony
She's had some moments where she "invades" the CMCs dreams to give advice at one point. I thought, ok, that's how they're gonna use her since they never see her. But that story device didn't really go anywhere. I don't think she's ever "invaded" any of the full grown ponies dreams to give them advice or if they're having nightmares.
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