The Anti-Censorship DNP Pledge

Background Pony #12BA
@Background Pony #12BA
It was a very stressful day in general and feeling like I was about to be stabbed in the back/that I somehow made a horrible decision that was going to destroy the site didn’t help. That and female hormones can crop up at the worst times. :x It’s all in the past though. I just mostly give that for context as to what was going on around that time and that the announcement should not have happened like that.
 
No, it is not all in the past. The reasons didn’t change, they are not suddenly gone.  
You are hurting yourself, its not good for you and not good for the community.  
And it explains why the team did flip-flop, try to reword and refine the rules and acted contradictory in the past two weeks.
 
You are just not in the mental state to make decisions.  
There will be nothing good coming out of it. It’s impossible.  
Do what is good for you and leave!
Background Pony #6C09
@Raptorshy  
I’m actually gonna agree with Latecomer for once here. Could separating comment and image rules be an option?
 
The way I see it, enforcement has always been slightly different anyway, but this was never “officially” recognised and the general mentality seems to be that the same principles must broadly apply to both. However, artwork  
  • can be easily filtered  
  • is often worth preserving and archiving  
  • can, and almost does except in the crudest cases, have multiple layers of meanings, or multiple interpretations  
    And thus the sentiment that artwork should be censored as little as possible.
     
    Meanwhile, I don’t think anybody really objects to ensuring comments are kept civil. An inflammatory comment probably took between 10 seconds and 2 minutes to type out, has little to distinguish itself from thousands of near-identical comments, and almost certainly has exactly one meaning - a derogatory and inflammatory one. And thus there’s no value in preserving it, and little argument that it should be deleted.
     
    For a concrete example: one image that was deleted was an Aryanne, walking/skipping with closed eyes and a generally smug/content expression, and pink text above her saying “gas the kikes”. Now, there’s absolutely zero question that someone actually saying “gas the kikes” to someone ought to have his comment deleted. But in art, there’s a lot more room for interpretation. It could just be there for plain shock value. It could be - almost certainly was - playing on the juxtaposition of a cute, happy pony, pretty pink letters, and possibly the most hateful message one could utter in this day and age. A play on absurdity. And by deleting it, you deleted a much more significant amount of effort by a practiced artist, than in deleting the comment that anybody could have typed in five seconds.
     
    Now I’m not saying the image saying “gas the kikes” ought to be restored. However, I’m just using it to demonstrate that it’s more nuanced than an equivalent comment. So when less clear-cut cases are concerned, again, art will always have more intrinsic value, and much more room for interpretation of intent and extraction of a meaning outside any direct hateful message.
     
    Also, art has much less capacity to directly hurt anyone. If someone replies to you directly with harsh language, you will likely be insulted. If an image exists that is filtered, you will not be affected. If an image exists but slips through your filters, it is still not a direct insult aimed at you, and you can filter it and never encounter similar images again.
     
    Basically, my argument is that if the aim is to ensure the community is civil, and doesn’t devolve into something aggressive, or into something like 4chan or gab, then applying strict rules to comments is absolutely necessary and useful! But that doesn’t necessarily have to fully extend to images. Of course Derpibooru is not going to adopt an “anything legal is allowed” extreme stance like Rainbooru, for example; I’m not arguing for that. I’m only saying, if comments and images are treated separately in the rules, it might be possible to be more permissive in the images, while still ensuring all community interactions are kept to a high standard.
     
    Heck, you could even ban “favourable discussions of nazism” in the comments, and I doubt too many people would be particularly unhappy.
Background Pony #40B0
@Latecomer  
You have demonstrated repeatedly in this thread you do not believe freedom of speech is worth standing up for (despite the mountain of evidence presented to you). This is why people should stop engaging with you.
Background Pony #125B
@Latecomer  
Why bother with a place that limits you when you can get everything from the other side? Its not like you will loose that much exposure if a bunch of artist start shilling the other sites and give disapproval of derpi.
Background Pony #12BA
@Raptorshy
The people in the thread are pushing too much for “clarification about the rules” and nowhere near enough for mod accountability. That’s the only thing that matters.
 
That’s a good point.  
Would be nice to know what will be the consequences for a mod if he/she goes back to do what was causing this whole drama.  
And if mods that clearly don’t have the capability of being in any position of power anywhere will get removed. Especially if its for their own good.
Latecomer

@Background Pony #40B0  
So this thread is a hugbox designed for people to agree in? I thought part of the point of free speech was so ideas had to respond to challenge.
 
 
@Background Pony #125B  
Except that the number of people who care are much smaller than the number of people who don’t and will just keep using Derpi because they always have.
Background Pony #6C09
So this thread is a hugbox designed for people to agree in? I thought part of the point of free speech was so ideas had to respond to challenge.
 
You are absolutely correct. People are mad because the conversation is going in circles and it’s been clear for days that nobody is going to change their mind, and the exact same arguments are getting brought up over and over in an infinite rock-paper-scissors. But you are absolutely within your right to post here and not be censored.
 
Because the ones at fault are those who continue to participate in the futile RPS of arguments. If they wanted for the conversation to stop, they could always just stop responding to the same thing over and over, rather than get annoyed at responding to the same thing over and over. Guys, I’m talking to you here. Seriously, Latecomer isn’t doing anything wrong, the fact that the conversation is still ongoing - and still going nowhere - is 100% your fault.
Background Pony #125B
@Background Pony #5E0F  
It surprising no one caught one that he keep repeating the same point over and over again. Hes being doing this for days now and yet people still keep failing for it and derailing the thread. The fact that mods do not touch him at all make me think hes here exactly for that purpose.
Latecomer

@Background Pony #125B  
I am her becasue I have opnions on the matter, and becasue I see things which inspire me to speak. You do not have to answer me if you do not wish, but your attempt to prevent others to do so seems rather hypocritically censor-like. I post only in good faith and ask questions sincerely - believe it or not, but it’s true.
Background Pony #40B0
@Background Pony #6C09  
It’s true people are annoyed about the conversation going in circles, but I think what adds to the annoyance is a few people have actually changed their viewpoints and see why censorship is bad. If anything, the best people to engage those new to this conversation would be the people that eventually changed their opinion.
Latecomer

@Background Pony #40B0  
I have changed my veiwpoints too, due to new information regarding this mess of a policy. But nothing I have seen here warrants me altering my basic principles as opposed to just my views on this one matter. Especially since I am repeatedly dismissed as insincere rather than answered.
Background Pony #C8E9
It’s true people are annoyed about the conversation going in circles, but I think what adds to the annoyance is a few people have actually changed their viewpoints and see why censorship is bad. If anything, the best people to engage those new to this conversation would be the people that eventually changed their opinion.
Now if only those artists that left/intend to leave would change their mind.
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