SIte suggestions- transparency & ajustment on reports/moderation

Poll results: Which idea do you agree with? (You can choose more than one)

4)
23.26% 10 votes
1)
20.93% 9 votes
3)
20.93% 9 votes
2)
18.60% 8 votes
5)
16.28% 7 votes

Poll ended with 43 votes.

Inucroft

Hater of Nazi edgelords
After having a prolonged discussion with mods yesterday. I feel there are some issues with how the moderation/report system works and the lack of feedback/notifications. The lack of transparency and feedback to how the reports/moderation has been badly lacking and highly inconsistent, creating a lot of frustration.
 
I am aware the admins/moderators are primarily volunteers, and do all of this unpaid on your free time.
 
Below are a few ideas from myself as to possible tackle these things:
 
 
  1. Bans ought to be renamed as suspensions if it is only temporary. If it’s a permanent ban, keep it called a ban
     
  2. There ought to be a method to appeal suspensions onsite, than having to go offsite (Ie Discord, Emails or twitter). Not sure how this could be implemented with how the current ban/suspension system works, as it prevents all onsite actions
     
  3. Alterations to how reports work And yes, this will likely increase time of moderation slightly  
    3a) If a report is rejected, even a basic short sentence to explain why would be good rather than zero feedback/reasoning.  
    3b) If you feel the content does break the rules but the prior report is rejected, there ought to be a means to appeal the decision without re-reporting it or bugging a mod in the forum/DMs/Discord. These appeals ought to be a lower priority than new reports.  
    This will help avoid issues where people keep reporting the disputed comment/image repeatedly.
     
  4. Alterations to image/comment moderation  
    4a) quite often, users have no clue their image or comment has been moderated unless they go out of their way to check. And in the more active comment threads, it quickly gets buried.  
    If a comment/image is moderated, their ought to be an automated ping/DM informing the user.  
    4b) Like report rejections, there ought to be a simple sentence stating why it was moderated Which ought to be inc in the automated DM For example you may see mods actually refence the offense (ie Sockpuppeting/Spam/ect), but this is so highly inconstant. Especially in cases where an image is removed yet it does not seem to break the rule cited  
    4c) For images only, I feel there ought to be a onsite appeal to it being removed, rather than having to as stated when you vist an img upload of your’s that has been removed emailing the site’s email where it’d get buried.
     
  5. If you have a number of comment/images moderated within a short space of time, would it be an idea for the system to automatically suspend the user for an hour asking them to cool off. unless a mod deems the person needs a longer suspension or ban for what was stated This is not a huge issue, but just an idea
     
     
    These I feel are decent attempts to tackle an long term issue I feel has been occuring on site. I do feel that out of the 5 listed, No.4 is my biggest concern as there is zero notification if it occurs.
CHurricane
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Devil's Advocate
@Inucroft
 
I personally think that those ideas are good “on paper” but it would be nice to have some staff member(that is familiar enough with site inner workings) to adress them and say which ones are realistical to be implemented in the future.
 
I will probably stop participateing in the discussion for now. (i live in europe and it’s geting late here) i will probably observe the discussion itself for a little bit longer but i will most likely not reply to anyone for the next couple of hours.
Derpy Whooves
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Looking For My Doctor
  1. The only permanent ban is a “moon”. And even those are assessed every year or so and many are lifted if people approach us about their ban. The site’s been here for years, and if someone got mooned as an edgy teenager and now just want to be here to enjoy the show then there’s no reason to keep them banned.
     
  2. Appealing bans on site isn’t a bad idea, but I agree - the current implementation just blocks interaction. Also our current appeal channels allow everyone on staff to see and respond to the discussion, where onsite tools tend to be one-to-one. This isn’t a bad idea, but man, it would take some typing to replace what IRC and Discord already give us. And that would take developer time from everything else. So, it is a good idea, but we already have solutions that are free and work.
     
  3. Many of us already reply to reports - whether they are actionable or not. Sometimes we reply in the thread itself if it’s a post or comment. If you have a report that was closed and you want an explanation you can report yourself for a reason of “Other” and ask for more information, and if someone has time to help you they will. But, that depends on the current load and staff availability. As an example of the time required to work some reports, right now I have 15 claimed reports, some of which go back 20 days. But if there was a field where we could type a response and that just went to the reporter and showed up in their “My Reports” list that would be really useful.
     
    3a) Yeah - that’s a great idea.
     
    3b) Hmmm … that’s a great idea until I think about situations where we get 20 reports of the same Rule #0 comment, and deleting the comment automagically closes all of those reports.
     
    See - we don’t always see what reports we are closing. If I claim a report, and there’s another report in the guts of the queue that was on the same item, then when I close the report I’m working on that other report can often also be automagically closed without me even knowing.
     
    So, this is not really a one-to-one relationship. Sometimes a single moderation action can close dozens of reports.
     
    And having levels of reports makes sense from a Software QA bug reporting standpoint, but right now we have just a single flat list of open, claimed, or closed tickets. It would have to be reworked into some sort of prioritized list.
     
    That could be done, but someone would have to create and test that and then we’d need to implement processes to take advantage of the new tools.
     
    So that’s not a short project. That’s the kind of thing that might take months to get into production and integrated with practices.
     
    4a & b - Generally speaking, if the comment was something that will be considered against future behavior, the person who posted the image or comment gets a warning. Or if it is a continuation of past behavior they are banned or someone sends them a followup warning or reminder. If the image or comment isn’t something that’s going to be considered in the future then we just deal with the image or comment and move on, possibly leaving a comment on the thread or image asking people to change their behavior.
     
    Sometimes those get missed, but really I can only think of a handful of times in the last year where someone got banned because they missed a warning. So, I’m not sure if this is actually a real issue that needs to be fixed.
     
    4c - Where they are not banned, people are contacting us via PMs or reports all the time about deleted images, and as mentioned above our existing IRC and Discord support channels are free and don’t ‘cost’ us any developer time.
     
    What’s wrong with using those existing solutions? How is having something on-site that we have to develop and maintain preferable to using the existing free solutions?
     
    5 - I don’t personally like the idea of automated bans. If someone is going to be banned I think available on-duty staff should discuss it or review it.
     
These I feel are decent attempts to tackle an long term issue I feel has been occuring on site. I do feel that out of the 5 listed, No.4 is my biggest concern as there is zero notification if it occurs.
 
BooruOnRails sent people notifications if their uploads were deleted. That did not make it into Philomena.
 
If someone ported that to Philomena, would that address your concerns?
 
PS: Anyone else on staff might give you a different answer. I didn’t talk to anyone on staff about this specific list, but most of these items are things we’ve talked about before, so short of a developer saying; “Yeah, I’ve been working on that”, I think other people’s answers would not be that far off from my answers.
Inucroft

Hater of Nazi edgelords
@Derpy Whooves  
Thankyou for at least reply.
 
Alot of 4 is when i was discussing things yesterday, a mod highlighted 4 messages of my own that got moderated. I was compeltly unware of 3 of them.
 
If there is no notification or warning given, how are we to know there is an issue in the first place?  
An automated ping with even a basic detail of why it was removed would send a warning to a user to chill, because it’s very easy to miss your comments getting moderated in active comments/forum-threads
 
For example, as you can tell, I was suspended for report “spamming” the other day. However, I did ask on the 2nd and following reports for reason why a message claiming the new rule:0 was being equated to the Holocaust was not deemed in breach of the rules i did not recive any answer. Resulting in each report adding further reuquests for the reasoning. the mod when asked in the discord, when i finally foud a way to it, stated he didn’t even notice and assumed it was just a report due to “personal” grudges.
 
 
Also, alot of users don’t use the forums actively nor the discord. We don’t know which mod to contact or where to post an issue.
Inucroft

Hater of Nazi edgelords
@Derpy Whooves  
It was discussed on the discord (which I hve now left again as I see no reason to be part of it), but this was something i have encountered a few times.
 
This is one of the reasons why i made this post. Because how moderators handle reports/moderation from a user stand point seem so inconstant and completely lacking in transparency.
 
In essence, this is a way that myself and likely a few other users feel would be the direction we would like the site to work towards.  
I don’t know coding, but I know it’s not an easy task to change or add new systems/features into the code.
Derpy Whooves
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Looking For My Doctor
@Inucroft  
But you know why YOUR posts were deleted, right? Telling other people what you said that got the posts deleted seems … wrong. That’s your business, not anyone else’s. So what information are you lacking that you don’t already have, and what information are others lacking that is not available in the deletion reasons?
Inucroft

Hater of Nazi edgelords
The disscion on the discord led to me making these suggestion to the two mods I was chatting to. and Thrashy(?) recommended I posted them onto this part of the forum once my suspension ended.
 
That is what lead to this forum post. Moreover, these are things i raised a few times in diffrent forms in other forum discussions. The only reason I refrenced my own exp is to give an example of issues faced by the current system.
Derpy Whooves
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Looking For My Doctor
@Inucroft  
Like I said, none of the comments that were deleted resulted in any other action against you. If any of them were getting you into a situation where we were considering banning you we would have sent you a warning.
 
The ban for report spamming was different - that seems to be a “You’ve opened a significant proportion of all the reports in the last 24 hours and we are ALSO swamped with spam attacks and requests for clarification on recent rule changes, so please take a break” and maybe if I had been on duty I would have sent you a PM asking you to stop opening new reports, but … I don’t know. You didn’t get banned for doing exactly the same thing the previous day, and if you did the same thing today now that we have the mitigation in place and there’s a lot fewer questions about the rule changes, maybe you would get a different result.
 
But on a fan run website (like a fan run convention) sometimes the volunteers have to deal with the current situation and sometimes that means asking people who are causing a significant amount of trouble to take the day off.
 
So now it’s the day after. If you want to PM me with questions then I could answer them, but saying more here just seems like a violation of your privacy.
 
And talking with people personally about each comment that we delete, in the middle of multiple threads where multiple people are calling each other nazis or other bad words, would require, at the least, getting a lot more people on staff who have expertise talking to people whose posts are being deleted for angrily calling other users words that shouldn’t be repeated, and who are willing to do that in their hobby time ‘for fun’.
 
@LightningBolt  
Yeah, I have no idea, either.
 
@Inucroft  
Sorry, I have no idea who you are talking about.
Inucroft

Hater of Nazi edgelords
@Derpy Whooves
 
Correct, but the fact the users are unaware of the moderation even occuringis an issue.
 
I mean, I was slapped with a 24hr ban for report spamming. As seen on my profile. When the new reports were also requesting to at least be informed of why it was being rejected.
 
And that is why I recommended the automated notification of comment moderation than having to send a personal DM to each user.
 
This entire thread, is about how it is handled in general than just in my case. I simply used it as an example when discussing it.
 
If you think this is me just ranting about being abused/mistreated/ect it isn’t.
Inucroft

Hater of Nazi edgelords
@LightningBolt  
thankyou. It was fleetfoot who suggested i post my ideas here.  
I am not good with names, especially when I do not interact with the mods regullary here nor on the discord. That is why i added the (?) because I knew it wasn’t correct but what i elived was simular to what it actually was
Interested in advertising on Derpibooru? Click here for information!
Sky Railroad Merch Shop!

Help fund the $15 daily operational cost of Derpibooru - support us financially!

Syntax quick reference: **bold** *italic* ||hide text|| `code` __underline__ ~~strike~~ ^sup^ %sub%

Detailed syntax guide