Rule #0 Policy Refinement Feedback Thread

wren
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@Crade  
As admins have said before in these discussion threads recently, the tightening of Rule #0 isn’t the goal. The goal is a more consistent definition and enforcement of Rule #0.
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My point is that the impact a slur has is not inherent to the word itself, because the word itself is an arrangement of sounds made by your mouth. It is the societal context around the word or your own personal experience that make a word “bad”.
 
I’m not disputing this, I’m saying that the impact that the use of a phrase or word has on other people matters far more than intent, because the intent is only felt by one person and cannot be proven or disproven, while the impact it has on other people is far more noticeable and affects more people.
 
However, in terms of Derpibooru, stuff can be filtered, so ensuring people use their filters could prevent the offence altogether, and ultimately lessens this impact and could negate it altogether.
Background Pony #6E7E
@Seiken  
Locking comments is just a cowardly thing to do, its seen on youtube a lot and extremely criticized outside of it. I don’t feel like that would improve anything on derpibooru and would seem particularly stiffling or hostile when every other picture thats controversial is fine and just brings up the same thing of why its only applied to certain pictures, but not equally in other cases like say foalcon.
 
It’s been passed around a few times the last few weeks that you can infact add a filter to derpibooru’s comments but it’s not nearly as widely known. I think allowing people to block on the forums or comments would easily take care of the majority of complaints that they dont want to see. This is an old for bulletin boards im sure everyone’s familiar with, and the people on twitter would be all too happy to use it. if it was more directly part of phillomena instead of an extension you have to hunt down.
Filiecs
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@LemonDrop  
Ah right, I remember have seen a few of those videos. I didn’t know the comments were forced off.  
At least they keep them up, as IMO those social features aren’t a huge loss, but allowing for comments/criticism that the author of the video can’t remove would be a better policy IMO.
TheDrizzle404
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Rainy Gryphon
@TheDrizzle404
For acting racist? You could literally do it by yelling at someone on the street.
 
I mean the art hosted here. How does a picture here translate into someone becoming a racist or rallying racists to affect the real world? I’d like to hear the mental process of such an event.
Background Pony #56B5
since there’s been (so far) undeleted talk of “racist organization” in comment sections, can someone provide an example for the forum for comparison? i think it’s important to properlt the full extent of the problem.
 
Sure!
 
“This picture depicting people the far-right considers “degenerates being lynched has such gems as:
 
Based and redpilled
 
I’d only agree with the three hanging from the tree. The others are okay, in certain situations.
 
And a bunch of deleted comments that were likely even worse.
 
Here, we have “Draco_2k playing “devil’s advocate for holocaust denial in the comments
 
It definitely happens. Most of it gets deleted but it happens.
Filiecs
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@wren  
Unfortunately, it really does appear to be tightening.  
Even if that was ‘the rule before’ it just wasn’t enforced, it’s still tightening.  
It would just mean that we never agreed with the rule’s definition, or at least the way the mod team perceived it, to begin with.
Background Pony #25FA
@TheDrizzle404  
And this brings us back to that point that I made a while back about people finding “humor” in extremely disturbing and violent things. It’s why “humor” is an impossible standard to use, because someone could find “humor” in things like that.
Filiecs
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@Background Pony #56B5  
As was said for the first image, it was done as a reaction to the reaction to the original image. It’s far from ‘organized’ as there are still many people voicing their disgust at the image.  
It’s saying, ‘you thought that was racist? This is what a racist image would look like. (If it was the original image)’  
I would have been fine with many of those comments being removed under rule 0.
 
The second one is just dumb, and filled with people being dumb in the comments. Who cares that some idiot has never actually been to a holocaust museum but his claiming he has?
Background Pony #7538
@Background Pony #56B5
 
i’m not exactly seeing an organization. just comments laughing with absurdity or mocking the edginess. got any more that actually fits the description of organization?
Background Pony #6E7E
@Background Pony #56B5  
people whined about the original on twitter so it was pushed to absurdity. it even has starlight being tossed out of the helicopter thrown in background. you cant treat either the picture or the comments seriously.
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@TheDrizzle404  
I’m fairly certain it was entirely reactionary, too.
 
It probably would have never been made if this site and twitter didn’t raise such a fucking stink about it, causing people to go “You think that’s offensive? Watch how offensive I can make it!”
 
If people just ignored fictional art pieces they did not like, shit wouldn’t get worse.
 
Edit:  
@Filiecs  
Ayy
Background Pony #25FA
Yet, the mods have to try and enforce a rule that says:
 
“Do not troll, attack, insult, name-call, or otherwise try to intentionally antagonize another person or group of people. This includes making racial, sexual, homophobic, or otherwise demeaning slurs, or posting similarly abusive content.”
 
And TheDrizzle404 just said this above:
 
“Lol, that example was made because people kept calling the original image racist, so they pumped the edginess up to 11 to spite the people whining about it.”
 
So the image was intentionally created to troll and antagonize people who would be deeply offended by that type of extreme racism and violent imagery. It’s a textbook violation of the rule, and a perfect example of why the policies need to be fixed.
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@Background Pony #56B5  
Just seems like, yet again, someone’s edgy joke is misinterpreted as hate speech because you’re offended by it. Racist comments do not automatically equate to a full blown racist organization, so please provide real evidence and stop making massive leaps in logic. What you’re doing is actually counterproductive to finding the real racist organizations, because you’re just attacking the first thing you see instead of actually doing some research.
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Squirrel
the image was intentionally created to troll and antagonize
 
But that’s just your opinion. I think it’s art, personally. It’s also clearly meant to be funny because of Glimmer being thrown out of a Helicopter, and a Gryphon being depicted as a Jew which is super ridiculous in its own right. How can you possibly make real world connections to racism in an image like this? Again, this is why subjective offensiveness doesn’t work. Just filter if you don’t like it.
Background Pony #25FA
@Filiecs
 
Multiple people here supportive of that image have admitted that it was created purely to antagonize and troll a group of people. The rule explicitly forbids that. There’s not much that needs to be argued on this one. The fact that no action was taken is an indication that the rule wasn’t effective or there were policy issues causing it to not be enforced, and that’s what they are trying to fix now. Seems pretty simple to me.
Filiecs
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@Background Pony #25FA  
Nobody here has at all agreed that it was made to troll people. Antagonize? Maybe.  
But that’s what art has done throughout history. Art has the power to be disruptive and antagonize people.  
Why do you think conservative Christians were so deadset about banning homosexual art they saw as ‘promoting degeneracy’? It was antagonizing them. It was making people think. That was a good thing.
 
 
The point of the edit is to be a commentary on the ridiculousness of moral outrage.
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