New AI Policy

Background Pony #70B1
@The Smiling Pony
>What we don’t want is people in a discord channel going “let’s flood the site with AI, fuck those cretins!” and working out some dumb puerile loophole.
For some thoughts from an anonymous jackass:
In that case the existing rules regarding spam should surely apply, it’s not exactly hard to spot when someone or multiple people upload a bunch of art with minor differences (And people doing that kind of spam are hardly subtle about their intentions) and issues of pushing human-created art “to the back” as it were are solved by filtering it by default, and improper tagging to get around that is also solved by existing rules.
An upload limit just seems redundant or “We don’t want it.” reasoning which is hardly unjustified given the amount of artists that feel threatened by it.
Not to mention it’s going to inevitably cause headaches / disagreements exactly like you just participated in regarding what constitutes “Ai generated” vs “Ai assisted.”
Personally I’d at least bump the daily limit to six if you guys are going to insist on it, so that people can upload sets of the mane 6 all at once as I’ve noticed that’s a bit of a trend.
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友情は魔法だ
@Ada
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, but for now we really want to see the spotlight remain on human artists. And features like Trending and Featured Images are just two of those spotlights.
Background Pony #6312
Ciaran:
@Jewellier
Thank you for your input. Please note that these are just my opinion and my read on the current policy. And I will defer to someone actually on the tagging side of the team if they disagree, because this loose canon is on their side of the deck.
  1. >>2947191 absolutely would just be artist:*. Personally I believe the inclusion of the ai generated image in the actual upload is incidental for tagging, but I can see that example becoming a bit of a tagging battle ground sometime in the future. That’s a good example for more discussion about when included images HAVE to be tagged. If the artist tagged this as ai assisted then it wouldn’t be incorrect, and might help avoid drama.
For reference - to try and keep information consistent - this was the kind of case I was asking about earlier, where you replied that it should get both “artist:” and “ai generated” tags going by the “tag-what-is-present” philosophy:
Background Pony #6312:
I’m curious to know if there ought to be a different way to tag an image that has AI generated imagery in it, but is merely incidental…
No. And forgive me if this sounds weird, but we tag what’s in the image. So … riddle me this …
Someone creates a hand-drawn image in which they paste an AI Generated piece in a frame on one of the walls in the image.
This image now earns an artist tag, a prompter tag, it is a uniquely copyrightable work of art, but it also has the AI Generated tag. This is like when someone includes someone else’s work in their image - especially where it’s a book cover or an image on a wall or something on a t-shirt. You tag both facts of the work that includes the included work, as well as the tags from the included work.
Tagception.
someone might include the AI generated image they have redrawn to allow for comparison
Same situation - tag all of it.
Gotta tag ’em all.
similar to the tag screencap reference
That’s above my pay grade - it might be one of the areas that Rainbow~Dash was talking about where additional granularity will become necessary to track all of these.

Also anything with a prompter: tag should imply ai content and ai generated.
small
Good point. None of them currently do, but maybe they should.
Philomena currently is hardcoded to add “oc” automatically if any tag with a namespace “oc:” is added to a picture, without having to set up implications for however many thousands of OC tags there are (and because new ones come up frequently). Perhaps “prompter:” and “generator:” are worth coding in as well? I think tag_differ.ex is where this takes place, but I am not at all confident in my ability to understand that programming language.
Ciaran
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友情は魔法だ
In that case the existing rules regarding spam should surely apply […] An upload limit just seems redundant or “We don’t want it.”
The difference is that our current practice is to individually review and vote on each image, or samples within the set of ‘spam’, which can take days or weeks.
With this proposed change, where ai generated images are concerned and one person is uploading more than 2 of them per day, staff may delete some of them at their own discretion. Non-ai generated images will still be subject to the currently existing rules and will still be assessed as they have been historically, but ai generated images will no longer be a part of that more deliberative, and sometimes lengthy, process.
An upload limit just seems redundant or “We don’t want it.” reasoning which is hardly unjustified given the amount of artists that feel threatened by it.
This has nothing to do with art created by artists. There should be no artists worried about this affecting them in any way.
Not to mention it’s going to inevitably cause headaches / disagreements exactly like you just participated in regarding what constitutes “Ai generated” vs “Ai assisted.”
Those kinds of questions involve what we consider to be uniquely copyrightable works of art, which is what we hope to be able to spend more time working on once we can more quickly deal with images that are clearly ai generated.
So, it’s no headache. For me, it is why I volunteered to work here - to help fan artists create and share their fan art. That previous example is exactly the kind of question that energizes my desire to continue volunteering here - and I look forward to more questions like that.
And, my assumption is that as we continually work this new set of rules and policies it will become as quick and easy and handling anything else we do today that involves artists.
So, I see this reducing headaches.
Personally I’d at least bump the daily limit to six if you guys are going to insist on it, so that people can upload sets of the mane 6 all at once as I’ve noticed that’s a bit of a trend.
Personally, I hope that people making sets like this will spend the the three days they will need to upload those 6 images making the results that they do upload - 2 per day - as good and wonderful as possible. Because right now a lot of the sets like you’ve described have had to be almost entirely removed from the site for not being recognizable as actual MLP characters. I sure look forward to the possibility that these changes will help us avoid that in the future.
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It’s actually going to be treated the same as other images ‘in their class’.
“in their class” meaning relative to screencaps I’m guessing? In any case, I just don’t agree that, for example, an otherwise fine AI image should be deleted because it botched a hand when real artists do that too. Or am I misunderstanding?
No, because we don’t want low-quality screencaps.
I think this should be clarified in the rules then. The “judging AI like screencaps” thing isn’t really sticking with me because I didn’t know we had any rules against low-quality screencaps in the first place.
That’s … that’s just 250 images, going back 11 years. Some of those, like >>120084, are images from the fandom.
Sure, some of those definitely are low quality, but just taking a shotgun look through them the ones I looked at all seemed to either be from the show, or showing something of interest to the fandom. We could go through those one-by-one, but some of those are ‘wow, that actually happened’ grade images that I don’t think we would ever Rule #3.
If you would like to filter those, you can add this to your complex filter:
(picture of a screen, screencap)
Or, you’re welcome to report them and we can put them through the review process that we have. But only a couple at a time please. They really are extremely low-priority.
“picture of a screen” is in my hidden tags already. I was just using it as an example of what I consider to be low quality screencaps (literally and figuratively), and yet I didn’t know images like those ever got removed or were even covered in the rules. The one you linked to seems fine, since there’s a bit more to it than just the picture on the screen (looks to be at a con, guessing this was before/when it aired?), but others are seemingly from people who don’t know how to screenshot like >>2996068 or >>2900604.
Hmmm. Why is that annoying?
I just like having search terms be short and not redundant. Sometimes I tweak that search, for example making it 4-5 days instead of 3 to catch anything I might’ve missed during my work week (and adding “safe” because trending lewds usually aren’t my thing), and doing that is actually when I noticed it yesterday. This isn’t a policy issue or anything, just a pet peeve.
Ada
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Personally I’d at least bump the daily limit to six if you guys are going to insist on it, so that people can upload sets of the mane 6 all at once as I’ve noticed that’s a bit of a trend.
Personally, I hope that people making sets like this will spend the the three days they will need to upload those 6 images making the results that they do upload - 2 per day - as good and wonderful as possible. Because right now a lot of the sets like you’ve described have had to be almost entirely removed from the site for not being recognizable as actual MLP characters. I sure look forward to the possibility that these changes will help us avoid that in the future.
On paper sure but that’s not how people really work. I would work on all of the mane six at once for whatever theme then post them once I feel all are finished. Not work on two, do something else for awhile, work on two, do something else for a awhile. You have to be in the “mood” and it would just discourage wanting to do stuff like themes entirely. Was gonna post a set of animations for the mane six soonish for instance but I might just hold onto them for the game I’m working on instead. Just seems like unnecessary hassle with the low quality rules already in place. A limit of 6 would be a nice compromise though.
Ciaran
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友情は魔法だ
For reference - to try and keep information consistent - this was the kind of case I was asking about earlier, where you replied that it should get both “artist:” and “ai generated” tags going by the “tag-what-is-present” philosophy:
Yeah. This is where the details start getting a little wibbly-wobbly, and it is very easy to over think it.
In the case of >>2947191 the screenshot of the ai generated inspiration is a background element and informative of the process, but is not actually a part of the final image. The ai generated component could be completely removed and put in the description instead, and the image still stands as it is as a uniquely copyrightable work of art.
This can quickly become conflated with examples where some famous fan artist’s image is pasted into the frame of a painting on a wall of a room in an image. Should that famous artist be credited? Yes.
Maybe your suggestion of a unique tag for these kinds of things really would be helpful. But right now I have absolutely no idea how to word it, how to describe its use to others, or how to moderate images with that tag.
Do you have a suggestion for what the tag should be called and its description?
My apologies if you already provided one - I’m late for a meeting right now and can’t look it up. If you have something already, please reply with it.
Philomena currently is hardcoded to add “oc” automatically
Good idea. I’ll ask the dev team if they feel that would be a good idea to implement (there’s a chance it already is, but is waiting for the ‘go live’ date to be implemented).
-Craft-
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I think you should also look at my update to #4 on that post in case it is a better answer to your questions.
Sort of? Jewelliers work not making the cut before was concerning and its good to see it recognized now, but like, they’re the best we have. Somewhat of a high bar to reach for.
I also understand though that rules must be structured to avoid abuse, its hard to write a rule that says ‘it’s assisted if you pinky promise you worked hard on it for more than an hour’ and I think we can all agree that we need rules that avoid a situation where someone inpaints a corner once and calls it assisted. I don’t envy the job of figuring out what counts as enough.
Perhaps It’d be helpful with some lower quality examples:
>>3054720 This one was maybe 30 minutes? predominately AI, (although if I recall correctly it did have an under sketch that was vastly different, I was mostly fooling around with high denoise on old art of mine) with only stuff like the blush and the squares in the background added by hand. I think I might have done some grey shapes and denoised them for the cutiemark. this is a somewhat low effort work I completed on a whim after just fooling around.
>>3029152 This one was a photo of a burning log that I ran through an embedding that I was testing, as such it is not strictly reproducible without access to those things. the high contrast result looked pretty good and I think I mostly just added some splatter and I think repositioned the horn?
>>2974239 this one is fairly self explanatory, is this an expectable level of under sketch? I notably did next to nothing with the resulting generation but this was like day 1 so I didn’t know what I was doing.
>>2974234 This image is actually three different images stitched together, at the time the ai was struggling with landscape images and generating 7 headed monstrosities everywhere, I solved this problem by generating the center luna as a 1:1 square and then splitting that square in half and adding both sides to two separate 8:4.5 images I then worked separately before recombining in photoshop and bringing back the 1:1 luna on top. the spacey pattern is extremely basic color blotting and speckling for the stars. Most of this work is now redundant in more modern versions of the ai. I also now notice I completely missed how screwed up the legs were.
I would not be surprised or think it unwarranted if these things did not qualify but the level of work might still be instructive.
Background Pony #6312
In any case, I just don’t agree that, for example, an otherwise fine AI image should be deleted because it botched a hand when real artists do that too. Or am I misunderstanding?
You might be. It sounds like you are thinking the bar for prohibited quality is higher than it has been explained to be, earlier in this thread. It’s closer to “gosh, that looks like crap; how did anyone think this was worth sharing?” (and not from an elitist “oh, no real artist ever drew a hand backwards or added too many fingers” standard of “crap”)

Maybe your suggestion of a unique tag for these kinds of things really would be helpful. But right now I have absolutely no idea how to word it, how to describe its use to others, or how to moderate images with that tag.
Do you have a suggestion for what the tag should be called and its description?
My apologies if you already provided one - I’m late for a meeting right now and can’t look it up. If you have something already, please reply with it.
I did: “ai reference”, with a description like screencap reference with the relevant parts adjusted. If it needs to be even more up-front, it could be something else like “redrawn ai reference”, “ai reference included”…

On paper sure but that’s not how people really work. I would work on all of the mane six at once for whatever theme then post them once I feel all are finished. Not work on two, do something else for awhile, work on two, do something else for a awhile. You have to be in the “mood” and it would just discourage wanting to do stuff like themes entirely. Was gonna post a set of animations for the mane six soonish for instance but I might just hold onto them for the game I’m working on instead. Just seems like unnecessary hassle with the low quality rules already in place. A limit of 6 would be a nice compromise though.
It’d be harder to do for animations, but assembling the image set into a single image (something commonly done by non-AI artists, too) would share the whole work at once.

I also understand though that rules must be structured to avoid abuse, its hard to write a rule that says ‘it’s assisted if you pinky promise you worked hard on it for more than an hour’ and I think we can all agree that we need rules that avoid a situation where someone inpaints a corner once and calls it assisted. I don’t envy the job of figuring out what counts as enough.
The answer will depend on the circumstances, particularly how the AI tool operates and how it was used to create the final work.[25]
This is necessarily a case-by-case inquiry.
Grif_on

It’s good to see that you have made such flexible rules .
The idea of distinguishing between “ai generated” and “ai assisted” tags + “don’t spam” is a good combination .
I love the idea of AI generated artworks , but i also realize that people can easily get carried away and create a lot of low quality prompt results :)
Ciaran
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友情は魔法だ
@Everyone Else
I’m trying to keep my answers focused and avoid any more walls of text, so I’m just replying to questions at this point. If I missed your question, or didn’t answer it satisfactorily, please do not hesitate to repost it.
@Background Pony #6312
Update: I have been able to confirm that prompt:* tags automagically implying both ai generated and ai content is a feature that is pending. Hopefully it will be live when the proposed policy goes live. If not, we’ll do that by hand until it is.
@-Craft-
Really, at this point, my only comment on those images is that they all are pretty cute pone :) and >>2974239 is a really good example of “both ai generated AND artist:* on one image. There will be a thread at some point for going through images example-by-example, so please keep those in your back pocket for when the policy goes live.
@Background Pony #6312
>>2974239 might be a good example for that tag you have been describing. Do you think that would also be a good candidate for ai reference? Or is this more of a domino-style situation, like ai comparison? For myself, I think some of these kinds of questions might be better to try to hammer out separately once the proposal goes live. Perhaps with its own individual thread in Tagging Discussion.
On paper sure but that’s not how people really work.
I’m sorry if that is going to put a kink in your process. I know a lot of people feel the same way. But you will still be able to do your generations all in a bunch, and then just schedule the individual uploads over a few days. So, you can still use your preferred process when you are creating the images.
assembling the image set into a single image
Yes. That is a great example of 6 generated images in “1 upload”. It’s a nice image, too :)
Background Pony #70B1
@Ciaran
You make good points even though i dont agree fully, i don’t have enough skin in this race on either side to properly care much beyond passing comments since the tools as a whole isnt what is being effectively banned, just the production line style of generating an image and uploading it without touchups.
Just to clarify, by “threatened by it” i meant artists feeling threatened by AI art in general, not the new policy.
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Intentionality of upload
I like this phrasing. That also makes it clear that tells such as whether the image description is an essay, the prompt, or not provided will be used in deciding whether a botched generation is spam or a “hey guys, isn’t this neat?” moment.
Background Pony #6312
>>2974239 might be a good example for that tag you have been describing. Do you think that would also be a good candidate for ai reference? Or is this more of a domino-style situation, like ai comparison? For myself, I think some of these kinds of questions might be better to try to hammer out separately once the proposal goes live. Perhaps with its own individual thread in Tagging Discussion.
That post is the opposite of what I’m talking about. In it, the drawing is the start and the AI image is the result; what I’m talking about is when an AI image is the start and a drawing is the result (and both are shown in the same image).
Agreed, it can be something to brainstorm later, probably in the tagging forum.
Background Pony #F4B6
What line do we draw when it’s artist assisted by AI or AI assisted by artist?
Background Pony #B3BE
@Ada
I a 100% agree with this.
Right now AI art is basically shadowbanned. Its not shown in any default filters expect the everything and even those who wants to see AI art has to take extra steps each time when visiting the trending page.
Background Pony #F4B6
I’m surprised there are some people who are pro-AI art. In that case, what do you think of artists who deleted their gallery for supposed protection against it?
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@Background Pony #B3BE
Porn and Gore is also ‘shadowbanned’ by your definition with filters, and people never struggle to find them. Trending is hardly an average browsing location I would assume.
Unless it is and I am just grossly underestimating how much people care about trending, idk, I hid it like 5 years ago. Maybe it’s the only place some people visit per day, I can’t say, my taste is anything but normie.
As it stands now, I have seen plenty of pure AI images the past few days with more score than actual art surrounding them, so I fail to see them not getting attention even with all of this anyway. (and of course plenty with comparable or less score, just existing as images)
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