Fair Use Concerns

LemonDrop
Duckinator - Same nonsensical quacks in every pond
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Lunar Guardian - Earned a place among the ranks of the most loyal New Lunar Republic soldiers (April Fools 2023).
Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Ten years of changes - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of MLP:FiM!
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab

C++ Crazed
Pre-emptive TL;DR: Political compass meme was deleted presumably under artist DNP, this is a gross violation of even real world fair use with regards to copyright law and stifles artistic freedom. Therefore more nuance should be taken when considering DNP requests.
 
Recently I noticed an image was deleted, specifically the Derpibooru political compass meme around this drama (>>2390543 (deleted)) which I found especially concerning given the justification for this is Rule #1.
 
While I am not 100% sure why this is the case, my speculation given the pre-existing artistic content used in the meme is that it was caught under a DNP from some artist (Perhaps Dilarus’s) or a specific takedown was requested against it for using said content. While this may not have been intentional, I argue that more nuance should be applied when regarding DNPs and that artists should not have absolute control over the usage of their content.
 
To support my case consider a company trying to take down someone’s artistic work (for example a YouTube review) for using portions of their IP within it (for example a Trailer for a movie). Typically this would fall under the category of fair use, given the limited amount of the source material used and the fact that the new content transformative, meaning that it acts in some way to critique or parody the source material rather than just 1:1 using its original meaning (as one would do by simply re-uploading the trailer themselves for no other purpose). In fact fair use is usually determined by four things (according to Wikipedia, I am not a lawyer):
 
  • the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;  
  • the nature of the copyrighted work;  
  • the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and  
  • the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
     
    The first of these pertains to if a work is transformative as I mentioned before as well as the commercial value. The combination of these is what lets something like a review use copyrighted content for commercial purposes if said review video is monetized for example which is usually the main concern when invoking DMCA to begin with given you’re profiting off of someone else’s work.
     
    The third point is also what supports fair use in this case, using only a small portion of trailer clips compared to a wider amount of commentary in the video (the bulk of the review) makes it quite different than something like simply re-uploading a large portion of the movie itself without much else along with it.
     
    Finally the last point is mainly again relating to if the video is monetized or not such that the use of the copyrighted work actually somehow infringes in the large market the original had. Usually this is not the case as a small YouTube video is not going to really be taking much out of the original’s market purely due to using clips from it if at all. A review for example is just using the source to support an argument being made (treating it like a citation for their argument if anything), the trailer or movie clips often could be completely substituted with stick figure drawings and not change the impact of the review much or the profits of the original content at all showing how the fair usage of the source material is fairly irrelevant in this case.
     
    Now after that, how does this apply to the image that was removed? Considering the same four points we can see that the image in question was indeed:
     
  • Transformative (By offering commentary on the overarching current event of “The End of Derpibooru” as well as the content creators/community members/etc involved)  
  • Not for large commercial value (essentially nonprofit)  
  • Likely not having a provably significant impact into the into the artist’s market purely by virtue of using the image there alone (As in people do not go to this meme image as a primary way to the original image, a decline in market due to the external commentary is irrelevant)  
  • Only using a small portion of various individual pieces of artwork compared to the larger whole of the image (Any one person’s artwork only makes up a fraction of the image’s area and meaning, showing that it obviously has further meaning than to simply infringe on an artist’s copyright)
     
    By this logic I’d say that even if real world copyright law was being considered here, a DMCA takedown request against this meme image would likely be rejected under fair use. If this is the case with actual copyright law (which is known to be fairly stingy and restrictive), then why on earth are DNPs treated with such carelessness and lack of nuance? Consider again the example of a content creator using some of a movie’s source material in a review. Should Disney (or whoever) have the power to simply nuke all these videos from the internet under some overarching DMCA takedown policy? To me that sounds completely insane and I do not see why that is how it is treated here.
     
    DNPs you could say are to respect an artist’s artwork which I can say is fair in some cases. You must also consider however respecting artists’ ability to create artwork or content creation is truly dead.
Background Pony #8463
Yeah honestly it was just a little slice, the majority of it was original, and was for parody purposes
 
I’ll try my hand at reuploading it without anyone’s art at a later time, if it doesn’t work out
Rene_Z
Non-Fungible Trixie -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
Artist -

Fair Use is a US specific copyright ruling, so it does not really apply here in the first case.
 
But regardless of that, it should only apply when the derivative work is specifically parodying/reviewing/… the copyrighted work. E.g. if you just want any image of Aryanne to use as a representation of the character, you can’t just use any image of Aryanne you find if the artist doesn’t agree to it. You’d need to be reviewing that image in particular to be able to use it.  
Also, the portion of the work used in the image refers to the portion of the copyrighted work, not the portion of the derivative work. I can’t just put 25 full-length movies in a 5x5 grid and upload them to YouTube. Even though every movie only makes up 1/25 of the derivative work, each copyrighted work is used in full. In the same manner, using a whole image for any purpose is unlikely to fall under fair use. Only creating a very small thumbnail that doesn’t show any real detail might be okay.
 
I haven’t seen the image in question here, so I don’t know how that applies to the specific image. But in general, fair use tends to be vastly overestimated by many people.
LemonDrop
Duckinator - Same nonsensical quacks in every pond
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Lunar Guardian - Earned a place among the ranks of the most loyal New Lunar Republic soldiers (April Fools 2023).
Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Ten years of changes - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of MLP:FiM!
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab

C++ Crazed
@Rene_Z  
Well the thing is it’s always a case by case thing which is why DMCA stuff is so complex, this sort of stuff has to be argued in a court and these are all just factors in what the judge may rule, not absolute rules. What you say is true that yes fair use law doesn’t really apply here legally, but that’s not the point. The point is more that given how restrictive copyright law is the fact that Derpi somehow manages to have an even more restrictive policy regarding how much control the creator of a piece of content has is kinda concerning (as it limits any sort of derivative work that can be made). Copyright stuff like this is made for big companies really or big ideas, for example if someone used your art in a multi-million dollar piece of media or something along those lines, not just “oh someone used my image in another meme image which is likely fair use anyways but I still should be able to take it down because of legal technicality”.
 
If you’d like to examine the image yourself I have put it here for educational purposes. The art in question which likely got this entire image taken down is the pinkie pie in the bottom left (note they did not even use the full original image in its entirety, just that bit of it is used to subtly commentate on that specific artist’s actions as it is relevant). This is clearly absurd and is one reason why in general this sort of stuff is ignored with memes anyways, given memes are all about this sort of copy paste derivative work in general. For example the creator of the wojack meme could in theory complain and try to DMCA every meme ever in existence but I’d say it’s clearly a kind of fair use in this way.
 
In general this kind of attitude of giving artists 100% control is unacceptable, not even multi-billon dollar companies like Disney have that kind of control over their IP, so why do they act like artists do on Derpi?
Rene_Z
Non-Fungible Trixie -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
Artist -

@LemonDrop  
Ah, that image. The cell is commenting on the specific artist (although the artwork shown does not depict the part that’s being criticized), it’s a legal gray area.
 
But in general, copyright protects creators from others using their work in a way they don’t want. That can be to prevent others making money, but that can also be to prevent others from using it for a message they don’t approve of (which is what I guess is happening here). However, it does not protect them from criticism and review, which is where fair use comes in. But for that, only the minimal amount necessary of the copyrighted work can be shown.
 
Personally, I think that image should be fine. However, I don’t know if it would hold up legally if it was brought to court. Copyright law definitely needs an overhaul anyways. And of course Derpibooru can decide for themselves to be stricter to protect artist’s rights instead of risking fighting over edge cases.
Cry_Havok
Wallet After Summer Sale -

Fair use is a legal defense. If you get sued you can claim fair use. Derpi doesn’t want to get sued. And, yet again someone is mistaking law for site policy. Derpi doesn’t have to rely on law on what they choose to host, it’s their own site policy.
 
Print that on a shirt and wear it around times square, or host it personally, that’s where fair use applies.
LemonDrop
Duckinator - Same nonsensical quacks in every pond
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Lunar Guardian - Earned a place among the ranks of the most loyal New Lunar Republic soldiers (April Fools 2023).
Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Ten years of changes - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of MLP:FiM!
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab

C++ Crazed
@Rene_Z  
Well I’d say it does apply. The pinkie image in question was used as mouthpiece art to push a political agenda, which is why it turned into a meme, so it directly applies to the criticism in question there.
 
I don’t buy the “prevent from using a message they don’t endorse” thing either as that’d completely eliminate any ability of fair use to commentate from the opposite side using content from people who disagree with them. As long as it’s clear this is not the artist’s original work but rather a deviation then there should be no cause for concern under something like dilution of their reputation if that was even a concern (most people will not think the artist endorses a message that is criticizing them).
 
But yes copyright law is dumb and if Derpi is managing to be more restrictive than that then it’s even more dumb. There is nothing about this image which I think is wrong to any sane person and no reason it should be removed. It’s a stupid internet meme made for literally no commercial value commentating on a current event, hardly something to take to court or even have a debate over, but here we are.
 
@Cry_Havok  
I mean they do in theory, Derpi must abide by international copyright law, that is not something they can just skirt around, this is more the opposite case though where again they are going beyond what the law requires. It is true they can censor whatever they want and limit content as they please, but all I am saying is that they should not be trying to aim for “world’s most artistically limiting image board” by having the most stupid DNP policies in existence. Fair use is an example of what is fairly reasonable in terms of both protecting artists while allowing for freedom of stuff like critique/parody and I’d say they could be even more lenient than that here given pretty much nothing on this site is being used commercially.
Rene_Z
Non-Fungible Trixie -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
Artist -

I don’t buy the “prevent from using a message they don’t endorse” thing either as that’d completely eliminate any ability of fair use to commentate from the opposite side using content from people who disagree with them. As long as it’s clear this is not the artist’s original work but rather a deviation then there should be no cause for concern under something like dilution of their reputation if that was even a concern (most people will not think the artist endorses a message that is criticizing them).
 
I think it’s fair if artist’s don’t want their work to be used by someone advocating for something they don’t approve of. Even if they say that the artist doesn’t endorse the message (which is a disclaimer that most people won’t read if it’s even there in the first place), people will always connect the two.
 
If a photographer takes a picture of playing with their dog and then PETA prints it on posters with “Stop animal abuse” written over it, I think it’s fair if the photographer objects to that. (Sorry, I’m terrible with examples.)
 
This does not apply to direct criticism, but just using other people’s work for your own purpose without permission.
FrankFronk
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Gunslinger Birb
@Rene_Z  
The difference is peta is using it to promote donations and funding for their organization, where this is a dumb internet meme. Even the most stringent copyright laws would have a hard time not calling this fair use under parody.
LemonDrop
Duckinator - Same nonsensical quacks in every pond
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Lunar Guardian - Earned a place among the ranks of the most loyal New Lunar Republic soldiers (April Fools 2023).
Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Ten years of changes - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of MLP:FiM!
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab

C++ Crazed
@Rene_Z  
In that case I’d say it’s more reasonable to be unhappy there, but again this is not the same thing I’d say. It’s more like using someone’s work to point out their silliness as part of the critique. I can’t think of a good comparison to this given it’s fairly specific but a close one might be like using a screenshot from a movie (perhaps with some edits to make it look silly or whatever aligning with your message) as a thumbnail for a YouTube video critiquing the movie in question. Obviously that would be fine and hardly something a company would issue a DMCA for because it’s pretty fair use to me.
 
I think people should be trusted to have braincells though, it’s not the job of the site to protect people really from accidental associations they may form. Using that logic you could say all art on Derpi is endorsed by Hasbro because it uses their IP, therefore they support all manner of horrible things people draw or produce using their characters, screenshots of the show, movie, etc. Obviously this is a fairly insane position to hold as 99% of people are not going to think that.
Rene_Z
Non-Fungible Trixie -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
Artist -

@LemonDrop  
A lot of fanart actually has no legal standing, even for non-commercial purposes, when using canon characters. Companies just tolerate it because fan art actually benefits them, and going against their own fans would just be shooting themselves in the foot. But they can if they want to, and we’ve seen Hasbro C&D fan projects before. In the case of JanAnimations it was (presumably) the fear of confusion with official work, because his animations just look too similar to official animation.
LemonDrop
Duckinator - Same nonsensical quacks in every pond
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Lunar Guardian - Earned a place among the ranks of the most loyal New Lunar Republic soldiers (April Fools 2023).
Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Ten years of changes - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of MLP:FiM!
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab

C++ Crazed
@Rene_Z  
Well sure if you get super technical, but that’s also kinda the point. Copyright is dumb and should not be taken literally in every context otherwise none of this would exist. If you give creators complete power over what they can do with their content then pretty much the majority of artistic freedom of the internet would immediately be shut down and that’d be terrible. Thus Derpi should not be encouraging that kind of behavior either by letting artists take down whatever they want even if it’s not their art.
FrankFronk
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Gunslinger Birb
@Rene_Z  
By that logic I request that all art of my character be removed from this site, even ones made by other artists (which are all of them because I can’t draw.) As my character is my intellectual property. By your own logic, I can threaten legal action against this site for continuing to host it.
Cry_Havok
Wallet After Summer Sale -

@FrankFronk
 
Really depends on the agreements you have with the commissioner regarding ownership of the work, and if your character design is distinct enough to qualify (you can’t claim “gryphon with a gun” because there are many, many gryphons with guns for example)
Background Pony #9BBC
@LemonDrop  
DMCAs are a legal process where threat of lawsuit is the driving force. DNP is a site policy enforced by the staff discretion. I can’t say for sure, but if an artist reports an image, derivative or not, the staff most likely obliges out of respect.
 
This is akin to getting pissed off at YouTube because your video got a claim.
LemonDrop
Duckinator - Same nonsensical quacks in every pond
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Lunar Guardian - Earned a place among the ranks of the most loyal New Lunar Republic soldiers (April Fools 2023).
Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Ten years of changes - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of MLP:FiM!
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab

C++ Crazed
@Background Pony #9BBC  
Not really, it’s the staff’s decision to honor requests this crazy, they have no real legal reason to do so as I demonstrated, and that is why it’s a problem. It is just restrictive and hurts artistic freedom for no purpose.
Background Pony #9BBC
@LemonDrop  
I think you misunderstand the platform’s role when it comes to copyrighted material takedown requests. It’s not their job, nor in their legal interests to judge whether something is “fair use” as that puts them in a precarious situation of acting as a court and opening themselves up to lawsuits.
 
You’re viewing it as “my artistic vision” or “my free speech” but that’s not how a content host has to view it. Takedown requests are honored or they’re liable.
 
If you want to argue that, you need to talk to the artist, not Derpibooru. It’s not Derpibooru’s job to decide what is and is not fair use.
LemonDrop
Duckinator - Same nonsensical quacks in every pond
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Lunar Guardian - Earned a place among the ranks of the most loyal New Lunar Republic soldiers (April Fools 2023).
Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Ten years of changes - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of MLP:FiM!
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab

C++ Crazed
@Background Pony #9BBC  
Of course, but the point is they are forbidding things beyond the extents what an already stingey real world copyright law forbids which is my criticism with the policy. Real world fair use protects artists by ensuring they can parody/critique/etc other work, Derpibooru’s own stance on DNP has essentially thrown that out the window (as is evident by this removal) which is why I think they should reconsider such an absolute stance with regards to how they remove images. It shouldn’t just be “if the artist’s tag is on this image then it should be removed”, it needs to be something with more care taken to see if an image in question actually the artist’s original work or something derivative of it, given the tag does not imply that directly.
Background Pony #9BBC
@LemonDrop  
That protection is not decided by the platform, it is decided by courts. You technically don’t have fair use until a company decides to drop it or you win a lawsuit. Which you are more than welcome to try and sue the artist if you want to claim fair use. But that is not this website’s place to make that call. They can’t.
Background Pony #8516
Fair use doesn’t apply at all here because there was no copyright claim made.
 
The artist requested all art with their tag get taken down (as per their DNP). This is a site policy, not law.
 
The site policy has no “fair use” clause.
 
Neither the site nor the artist in question (likely) specifically targeted this piece. It was hit by “precision grapeshot”.
 
If you want a site that doesn’t care about artist rights and DNP, I’d suggest Ponybooru. They seem to have a hate-boner for pissing on artist rights. /s
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