Explanation of update to Rule #0 for consistency and clarity especially in regards to racism

Background Pony #B57F
@CHurricane
I would not consider there to be a high chance of restoration (our approach would need to change drastically for that to be on the table.


Nothing's stopping ya and the rest of the staff from doin' so, sweetheart. (Except TSP, maybe.)
Background Pony #AB73
@Princess Luna
Interesting that the little argument gets to continue all the way up until all of Derpy's nonsense, including insulting me personally, is worn out and proven to be irrelevant or lying, and then that's when you just have to put your foot down and stop it. But why should I expect better from you people? Just like I fully expect this one to be deleted, even though I'm going to be "on topic" which the previous comment graveyard shows just means agreeing with what the staff wants to talk about at the time.

But whatever. Tell me, why does the reason for the image existing not matter here, but if I offer up other images that could be argued to be promoting discrimination or some form of real world wrong, it suddenly will be completely different?
Zebradom glorifies racism. Foalcon glorifies pedophilia. Guro, necrophilia, bestiality, etc. Why are they exempt to this reasoning?
Background Pony #5CB0
@Derpy Whooves
because we either don't support LGBTQ artists and fans strongly enough, or because we refuse to ban LGBTQ themed images from the site.


I think this is being disingenuous. Artists weren't leaving because you refused to ban LGBT images, artists were leaving because you made an openly pro-BLM (which to many peoples eyes is pro-murder and pro-racism) post on your twitter account and because you were banning people who dared downvote BLM images (and you still ARE doing it, for fucks sake).
Background Pony #71E3
@evan555alpha
You would be correct.

@Princess Luna
In regards to deletions, sometimes things are deleted rather quickly and then discussed immediately after, but it appears that a moderator forgot to do that second part, which has to be corrected.


So chances are even the staff at large don't know how many deletions occur without said postmortem deliberation, or if not they simply look the other way with certain types of images. The latter isn't a distant possibility, either, considering an unknown number among them ruled that a blatant pornographic image of Aryanne was deletion worthy under the "new" rule #0 without even looking at it close enough to see her giant wang in the 24 hours they had to cast their votes.
Silver Smoulder

Hi! I am utterly and completely disappointed with this decision. I will remind you that this is the same exact kind of shit that got "Ask Princess Molestia" taken down and the fandom became poorer for it. The show has been dead since S5, the fandom is now dead, and now the 2nd oldest (Ponibooru was older) website is now taking sides and choosing what to preserve and what not to preserve. I genuinely hope that when the outrage/cancel culture crowd still come for you, you'll have enough self-awareness to realize that this is entirely your fault, and you could've avoided this. But, who am I kidding, of course, you won't.

I've been on this website for 7-ish years? I've been a member of the fandom for longer back around 2010-2011, back when we were just starting on /co/. All of you seem to forget that the MLP thing started on 4chan. You can search for me as "Arcanum_Pony." I'm just saying that for context. It is at this point, I ask that you please delete my account AND remove it from your database completely, as I no longer wish to be associated with this website at all, including my e-mail. I am absolutely disgusted by the fact that you're taking sides in this, ignoring your userbase, and are caving in to the cancel culture crowd.
ArmadilloEater
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French Taunter
Public service announcement: remember, staff is full of nerds, weebs and worst of all, bronies.

Don't attribute ALL their fuckups to nefarious intent when it can be easily explained by social ineptitude, stress, hastiness born of over-eagerness or any other consequence of them being nerds. Can't really blame them for being a good representation of most of the site's userbase, now can you?

@evan555alpha
Dunno, Princess Luna seemed surprised by some of those deletions, I'd say it's more likely that a mod was applying the new rules a little too liberally.

@Silver Smoulder
There's some stuff that's a little strange, but so far thing seem to be heading towards a reasonable compromise? I'd stick around the thread at least for a little while to test the waters if I were you, see where the wind blows.
ArmadilloEater
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Equality - In our state, we do not stand out.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Thread Starter - Tagging Discussion
Magical Inkwell - Wrote MLP fanfiction consisting of at least around 1.5k words, and has a verified link to the platform of their choice
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
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A Perfectly Normal Pony - My goal in life is to fuck a bagel now.

French Taunter
@Silver Smoulder
Yeah, some people deciding that Derpi wasn't an art archive anymore and should be conducted like a community hub first is the core reason to what happened recently IMO. Still, things are looking tentatively up lately, with a few hiccups that are being monitored in this thread. Now's not the time to cancel yourself, better to participate and call out issues.

Would be cool if more mods would participate in here tho >:T
evan555alpha
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Birthday Cake - Celebrated MLP's 7th birthday

PSA: R0 was changed!
@ArmadilloEater
it's more likely that a mod was applying the new rules a little too liberally.

That's, as I said, "delete now, deliberate with other staff later".
I said nothing about Luna themselves deleting those images.

@ArmadilloEater
And yeah, it would be nice if other staff actually participated in these threads. Maybe give an explanation (that's actually worth something!) as to why Derpi supposedly isn't an art archive anymore, especially given that the tweet that arguably started all this shit claims that DB is an art archive first and foremost…
Derpy Whooves
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@Northern
Your bias is worn on your sleeve, which is commendable, in comparison to others who would hide theirs — but it's still clear and undeniable bias

I have favorites. I don't play favorites. Whatever the site's rules are, those are the site's rules. But my opinions are still my own, as are your's. As much as you seem to think my personal opinion should determine everything, what matters is behavior. If I was the person you and others claim I am, there would be no "Fluffy Abuse" or "Raping the dead" images on the site. But the site says they are ok, so they are ok. That doesn't mean I have to like them.
Princess Luna
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@CHurricane
I believe that's all at least very close to fully correct. As for Aryanne herself, I think she does rather count to indicating that it's a Nazism thing when combined with stuff like gas chambers, unless there's something to specify that she's not normal Aryanne (like clothing indicating a different ideology or such).
Contextual clues can get quite messy.

@Background Pony #0CFF
The Curtsibling image? I'm…fairly certain it was not. Curtsibling often mixes humans and ponies in his artwork, so I think it was just Nazis killing Rarity for being a pony.

@Northern
I think most of this is huge disconnect on what "parody" looks like, but I would like to note in regards to Gilda's distress that it doesn't contain anything horrific to offput the viewer, so I don't think it makes much of a difference to the image other than to specify she's likely about to die.

@Background Pony #E07A
Those images appear to have been deleted some days ago by mistake, and I wanted to make sure they got properly reviewed.
@evan555alpha
It's supposed to be that deliberation is immediately after; it's rather incorrect if something gets deleted and we put off discussion a while, hence restoring the images in question.
Background Pony #6714
@Background Pony #5CB0
@Derpy Whooves
because we either don't support LGBTQ artists and fans strongly enough, or because we refuse to ban LGBTQ themed images from the site.


I think this is being disingenuous. Artists weren't leaving because you refused to ban LGBT images, artists were leaving because you made an openly pro-BLM (which to many peoples eyes is pro-murder and pro-racism) post on your twitter account and because you were banning people who dared downvote BLM images (and you still ARE doing it, for fucks sake).


Saying you are against Black lives mattering is literally racism.
CHurricane
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Devil's Advocate
@Princess Luna


As for Aryanne herself, I think she does rather count to indicating that it's a Nazism thing when combined with stuff like gas chambers, unless there's something to specify that she's not normal Aryanne (like clothing indicating a different ideology or such).
Contextual clues can get quite messy.



So if i wanted to censor nazism from that dabbing pic then i would have to censor the whole aryanne ant not only the swastikas?

Also aryane by herself does not imply nazis?

What are examples of "stuff like gas chambers" that combined with aryanne imply nazism?

Would picture of aryane in wermaht uniform shoting a gryphon in back of the head(no words, jewish symbols or anything) in empty field or city(location that does not imply concentration camp) be ok?

Also how much clothing impact what aryanne represents? If for example on that dabbing pic someone would change both swastikas to hammer and sicle then would that pic be ok then?(no further changes just symbols)

also what if we were considering a pic with aryanne cutie mark(uncensored) visible? Would adding armband(or hat) with hammer and sicle then make her "not nazi"?

Also what about mixed clothing for example anthro aryanne in full ss uniform(style) but witch symbols switched to again hammers and sicles? Or lets say ss uniform(nazi symbols) on legs and torso but witch soviet officer hat? How much symbols are required to change her meaning and can they coexist with other symbols?

Another question: above i proposed changing the swastikas to hammer and sicle to change ideological meaning but soviets(they used that symbol extansively) also commited many war crimes so does changeing nazi symbolics and rethoric to symbolics and rethoric of other hatefull ideologies that caused death and destruction(like soviet communist) be sometimes not enough to make pic ok for example if we take pic of aryanne in ss uniform shooting bunch of gryphons and saying that they deserve it for being inferior(discrymination based on race ) which i think would be not ok and we change that pic to have aryanne wear nkvd uniform and change the aryanne dialouge to say taht they deserve it for being part of elite(rich/educated/religious/land owners/factory owners or other part of intelligentsia that soviet communist ideology considered enemy and persecuted like Polish intelligentsia in katyn massacre in 1940) that exploits common workers(dyscrymination based on role[active or percived] in society) in my opinion it should also be not ok.
So generall does changeing nazi symbolism to symbolism of other "problematic" ideologies is sometimes not enough? Or do you have only problem with nazism and we can change symbolism to for example communism one becouse communist were less racist(at least in ideological sense)?


And if we are already in symbolism does change of ideological meaning require usage of active used real life symbolism of other ideologies? What i mean by this is that sometimes people use other symbols to replace nazi ones like smiling face or in mlp case black version of celestia cutie mark so for example if we have picture of aryanne with nazi styled armband(no uniform only armband) and we changed swastika in that armband to smiling face or celestia cutie mark would that make aryanne "not nazi" or do we have to change it to more obvious real life symbols like hammer and sicle? What about changing the swastika to symbol of fictional ideologies/organizations that exist in mass culture( books/movies) for example symbol of rebels in star wars? Does less common fictional examples count? For example lets say someone writes mlp fanfic an in it the communist will be useing three-armed swastica as their symbol would changeing regular swastica to the three-armed one then imply change of ideological meaning? And what if there is no prior fictional background of used symbols(author of the picture thinks of it by himself) for example if autor of picture used some symbol (first presence of this symbot ever) to substitute swastica on armband and then said in description of that picture that this new symbol is a symbol of for example crystal empire comunist party would then that symbol be accepted as good enough replacement that change ideological implication of the picture?

And last thing about symbols: will symbol meaning change in the future affect older art? What i mean by this is that some symbols that were acceptable in the past now become controversial and their perceptive meaning changed with time (like "ok" hand symbol being now considered by some symbol of white power) so lets say we have dabbing aryanne pic and we change aryanne to be twilight sprkle and remove hat with swastica and we remove swastica from armband(we still have gryphon being gassed in gas chamber but by removing "nazis" from picture the picture should be ok enough if i understand corectly) and then we wuold put some other symbol on armband like for example cupcake and posted it on site then in lets say 5 years some neo-nazi organisation will start useing cupcake as their symbol would then that changed pic be considered no longer acceptable(it would again imply nazis) and be deleted?

Lastly i dont see in your post answer to one of my questions from earlier post so i will quote it again here:




Another question what in staff eyes qualify as "gas chamber" (what must be present in picture to be considered a gas chamber?) Metal door? Button on wall? Combination of two? Metal door on which someonr is banging from inside(So for exampke again the dabbing pic if i leave nazi imagery present but censor window and whole button but you will still see metal door in background and the banging noise would still be visible would that be considered as "censored enough" to not be considered a gas chamber in background? And if not then what else should also be censored? Banging noises? Whole door and not only window?)




@Background Pony #6714



There are bad actors in every group, including this one. BLM is a concept which should be supported by all.



I agree that blm as a concept(demanding racial equality and safety from police) should be supported but that does not make the movement that was created from that concept and people that are taking part in it free from being criticised or joked about.

Similarly with communism/socialism. Those ideologies were created with noble intentions (and in ideal world with perfect people they might in theory work) but comunist/socialist countries/people(like china with their new concentration camps) should not be suported mindlesly just because they were created on noble ideas.

Supporting BLM movement is controvertial because of being heavili politicized(i live in eastern europe and we still have some blm protests mostly organized by members of left wing parties to virtue signall because we dont have almost any problems with police being excesive in use of force or treating other races diferent and if there are problems then they are almoust always[ there are some post comunist country problems with that ocasionally but moustly things are going in good direction with every year] dealt with)and being infiltrated by not insignificant number of bad actors(antifa, rioters) as well as racists and black supremacists.

In my opinion better way of doing things would be to not state that someone supports blm but to state that you support: racial equality, police reform, etc( concepts on which blm was build) it would still send positive messeage while not being nearly as much controversial.
Princess Luna
Thread Starter - Started a thread with over 100 pages
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Reminder that this thread is not Politics General, and is not even about the intersection of politics with Derpi policy; arguing about BLM is not the topic.

@CHurricane
This is getting well into the weeds about how to judge whether something is "Nazis killing people cause of their race." I would generally say that Wehrmacht shooting someone isn't by default seen as being for racial reasons, and changing things to communist symbols would certainly confuse what the image is trying to say (to my knowledge, communists have never used gas chambers) and thus potentially make it okay that way, so long as nothing else would specify that it's being done for racial reasons.
For recognizing gas chambers, it'd be anything that appears to be an airtight chamber that's being used for executions, unless there's something contradictory to it being a gas chamber.
Northern
Artist -

I refuse to bend
@Derpy Whooves
No, you don't, and I don't blame you for the deletions as a result. As I said, you have my respect, but don't try to deny that there's a bias being used here as well. Inconsistency is rampant and many people have, by now, pointed out those rampant inconsistencies.


@Princess Luna
Uh… What? Are you saying that the image of someone banging on the window of a gas chamber is NOT HORRIFIC ENOUGH? I cannot imagine a much more directly relevant horrific piece of imagery than that one, and I've seen some pretty messed up stuff in this fandom. Would you kindly explain to me what you mean by 'someone beating on the walls, angrily resisting imminent death' Isn't horrific enough? Are you implying direct gore imagery is necessary?

My other point remain unchallenged, as well. Concerning, primarily, uneven enforcement.
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