Explanation of update to Rule #0 for consistency and clarity especially in regards to racism

Background Pony #AB73
@CHurricane  
I don’t know. I’d say that a pony in uniform masturbating in front of a gas chamber with an unspecified victim is the same level of racist as an image proclaiming the superiority of the zebras being used as black stand-in over the “pathetic aryans”. Racism fetishism is racism fetishism. You delete one, you should delete it all.
 
And for the record, that image is definitely worse than several of the images that have been deleted and slated for deletion.
CHurricane
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Devil's Advocate
And for the record, that image is definitely worse than several of the images that have been deleted and slated for deletion.
 
I agree with that especially in contexr of boomer pic.
 
@CHurricane
I don’t know. I’d say that a pony in uniform masturbating in front of a gas chamber with an unspecified victim is the same level of racist as an image proclaiming the superiority of the zebras being used as black stand-in over the “pathetic aryans”. Racism fetishism is racism fetishism. You delete one, you should delete it all.
 
I personally dont agree with deleying the masturbation pic but i must admit that presence of nazi uniform on aryanne and the “showers” sign could be used to argue that the image is crossing the line.
 
 
As for diference between the two pics o think it comes down to the fact that in the aryanne striping pics it is aryanne that is saying that racist supremacy stuff and not zebras so i think that it should be treated as sex talk.
 
(Question for the staff here: if people inside gass chamber pic werent begging to be let out but instead they would for example: “moan in pleasure” would then that pic be allowed?)
Background Pony #AB73
@CHurricane  
Why does it matter who is saying the racist shit? And rape and the subsequent mind break is a hentai trope very present in a number of zebradom images, which you would know since it’s a fetish you favorite a fair amount of and that’s why you’re fighting so hard to defend it.  
Stop. Call for consistency, not favoritism towards your fetish.  
I’m LGBT and have a Nazi fetish, and I’m against the deletions, but I’d be more happy with the decision if they were fairly applied and the reasoning used for all deleted images was used to remove others that it can work against.
Background Pony #71E3
@CHurricane  
It really shouldn’t matter who’s spouting racism, same way it shouldn’t matter who’s saying two plus two is four. Two plus two will be four no matter who’s saying it, and racism will always be racism no matter who it’s coming from.
CHurricane
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Devil's Advocate
@CHurricane
Why does it matter who is saying the racist shit? And rape and the subsequent mind break is a hentai trope very present in a number of zebradom images, which you would know since it’s a fetish you favorite a fair amount of and that’s why you’re fighting so hard to defend it.
Stop. Call for consistency, not favoritism towards your fetish.
I’m LGBT and have a Nazi fetish, and I’m against the deletions, but I’d be more happy with the decision if they were fairly applied and the reasoning used for all deleted images was used to remove others that it can work against.
 
I do indeed am favouring many of “zebradom pictures” i also favour couple of “zebra sub”, “blm”, “rape”, “acab” “pride flag” “nazi” “communist” and “aryanne” pictures if i remember correctly (so by logic of “you fav then you support” i am supporting all of those messeages)
 
My stance on the subject is to prevent deletion of pictures(all of them even ones that i dont like) so i will defend both of them. I did defend gas chamber ones earlier but i was presented with response and although i still do not agree with deleting that pic i must admit that the reason given to me does have some point(and is better than dry “rule 0” on deletion page). So i have simply repeated them to you.
 
And i am also concerned about consistency of those rules thats why i am argueing and asking questions in this thread at 2am instead of sleeping.
Background Pony #AB73
@CHurricane  
And yet you ignore my question about why it matters who is saying the racist comment because you know that I’m right and that you’re defending it because you like it.  
It’s fine to get your rocks off to whatever legal shit you want, but you can not deny that it’s a tag with many images on the same level of racist as the gas chamber. The exact same argument against one can be turned on the other. That’s my point.
CHurricane
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Devil's Advocate
 
 
I agree that it should not matter who is saying racist stuff but we should not ignore context. For example saying “i hope our boss will die miserable and painfull death” in context of conversation with coworkers after work in relation to news that there will be no pay raise this year is diferent that saying the same words in work enviroment at the news that the boss was diagnosed with cancer.
 
The words are the same but based on context they have diferent meaning.(cant think of a better example right now sorry)
 
My main reason for being in this thread is to argue bad mod decisions and also geting to know what is and is not allowed so for example if aryane masturbating to X being gassed is bad(in staff understanding) then picture with roles reversed should also be banned and if aryane being striped is allowed then the similar picture with for example zebra being fucked by aryan stalions and saying that they are superrior should also be allowed.
 
By getting reason why something is good or bad you will be able to know how to make mods “play by their own rules” in future and ideally you will be able to keep them more consistent or at worst you will be able to easy show their bias.
 
Also i think we should wait for some staff member answers before continueing discussion to awoid getting offtopic.
Background Pony #AB73
@CHurricane  
Please explain the difference beyond one fetish picture makes you hard and the other doesn’t.  
The context is the same no matter who is saying it. It’s racist comments deriding one race as inferior. Period.  
You’re just as bad as the staff at trying to weasel the content you like into not being against the rules when it clearly is if they’re fairly applied.
 
If I posted a picture with Zecora getting railed saying how those “pathetic niggers” were worthless, you can bet your ass it would be deleted.
Background Pony #B19D
@CHurricane  
“Make them play by their own rules”? Ok, show me an image of Aryanne dying in a gas chamber while Glinda jerks off to her dying that hasn’t been deleted.
 
If you can’t, then you are creating false equivalences based on your own bias.
Derpy Whooves
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
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Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Looking For My Doctor
@Seiken
You haven’t answered anyone’s claims of bias, aside from Derpy’s answer that you are doing things out of an ideological bias.
 
I said that you are welcome to your opinion, which I believe is extreme to such a degree that it is ridiculous.
Background Pony #AB73
@Derpy Whooves  
Oh hey, Derpy. This is a little off-topic from the Rule #0 discussion, but is very much on-topic for the secondary discussion about staff transparency and accountability.  
Can I ask you a question about the “undesirables” comment?
CHurricane
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Devil's Advocate
If I posted a picture with Zecora getting railed saying how those “pathetic niggers” were worthless, you can bet your ass it would be deleted.
 
You can try to do that and we will see if it gets deleted but to make the picture more similar i wouldnt use “pathetic niggers” because “nigger” is a slur while “aryan” is not so to make your pic be the most comparable i would use “pathetic zebras” , “pathetic black clots” or “pathetic affrican colts”
 
Please explain the difference beyond one fetish picture makes you hard and the other doesn’t.The context is the same no matter who is saying it. It’s racist comments deriding one race as inferior. Period.
 
Well the obvious diference in context of those two pictures is that in one the “victim of racism” (i dont belive that gas chamer one is racist) is non consensual while in other it is clearly consensual.|| Btw (as much as i am dissapointed with myself )both of those pics made me hard in the past i am weak in mind||
 
I am not saying that one pic is “better” than the other and i would gladly accept deletion of pics that i like if it would make site more consistent.
 
We should wait for staff coment about those pics.
 
 
@Background Pony #B19D
 
 
“Make them play by their own rules”? Ok, show me an image of Aryanne dying in a gas chamber while Glinda jerks off to her dying that hasn’t been deleted.
If you can’t, then you are creating false equivalences based on your own bias.
 
I am not sure if i understand your comment. Do you want to say that i said earlier that there are undeleted images that fit your description on this site right now? Or do you want to say that if similar kind of picture were posted now then it wold not get deleted?
 
Basically do you acuse me of having nazi bias or having mod bias?
 
I am sorry but i am not a native english speaker so i might have misunderstood something or say something wrong.
Background Pony #AB73
@Derpy Whooves  
I’ll just go ahead and ask, I guess, even though I fully expect this to be deleted and a ban to follow.  
Why has your story changed on that so much if you don’t lie to us? Which of these handful of reasons that I remember you saying is the truth?
 
-You didn’t know who the undesirables were  
-You were just repeating what they said  
-You only said it because it sounded good to them  
-You say that about both sides depending on who you’re talking to  
-It was taken out of context to hurt you even though the artist was praising your comment
 
It’s things like this constant lying, Joey’s overriding, TSP’s ultimatum, and Meow’s comments that make it clear that staff statements can’t just be trusted. And the biased, and apparently freely done, application of this rule really isn’t helping rebuild that trust.
CHurricane
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Devil's Advocate
@Derpy Whooves
 
Hello there.  
Do you(or any other staff member reading this) know when Princess Luna will return to this discussion? We(or I at the very least) are waiting for answers to some questions and i would also like to personally ask few more depending on those answers.
 
If it will be more than few hours or even tommorrow then i will probably retire from the discussion till then.
Derpy Whooves
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Looking For My Doctor
You didn’t know who the undesirables were
 
I assume the undesirables that artist was talking about were people who opposed BLM, because that’s what the artist was protesting. Unlike people who are leaving the site because of the “anti-Nazi protest” this artist was leaving because of what happened BEFORE we said that Black Lives Matter. They were in process of leaving until the “Anti-Nazi” protesters didn’t have a cause to hang their shingle on outside of “Black Lives Matter” and the people who were editing their art in attempts to misrepresent their position.
 
You were just repeating what they said
 
I used their words in response to them. They never said “I am leaving because ‘people who [x]’ they said they are leaving because of ‘undesirables’. I don’t know for a fact who the ‘undesirables’ are.
 
You only said it because it sounded good to them
 
I said it because it was why they said they were leaving.
 
You say that about both sides depending on who you’re talking to
 
Yes, people who hate SJWs have also said they are leaving because of ‘undesirables’.
 
It was taken out of context to hurt you even though the artist was praising your comment
 
I don’t agree that they were praising my comment. I think they were stabbing me in the fucking back and creating the largest amount of drama that they could create. I had several PMs with that artist, some of which ran on to pages. I did not give them permission to share anything that I said to them, and I still haven’t found the specific comment they took out of context and posted on their site so I don’t even know if that was verbatim or if they edited it to make it look better for their cause.
 
Obviously, they found something they thought they could use to prove their points. Just as ‘your side’ keeps finding things that you can take out of context to prove your points.
 
You call that lying. Ok - that’s your call. Opinions are like assholes, and you are welcome to your opinion. But consider that the bias that you have been showing in this and other threads on this site might be clouding your ability to see things clearly.
 
@CHurricane  
This is a volunteer gig. Any one of us might not be here for a week or even a month if there are other things that are going on in our lives. There’s no kind of “clock in/clock out”, and none of us even really mention when we think we might be back. So, I have honestly no idea when they will return to this thread, assuming that they will.
 
For myself, at this point it seems that the questions have devolved to just endless accusations, or people asserting what they think others have said, so I’m not sure what benefit the thread is even serving any more. For me, this does not appear to be a beneficial conversation for anyone involved, and maybe something else should be considered or tried.
 
But perhaps Princess Luna feels that there is benefit in continuing this form of communication in this thread, and perhaps they will return and will answer some of the questions here. I don’t know.
Background Pony #AB73
@Derpy Whooves  
You said in the very post that the undesirables were the ones posting Nazi ponies and still thought to use that excuse.  
And to rebut the rest of your post, the artist has posted that YOU were the only one using that term and has posted the full conversation. Need a link to refresh your memory?
 
Just because they accidentally exposed your insulting of the users thinking it was a good thing, doesn’t mean they stabbed you in the back. You fucked up and continue to lie and change your story about it.
Derpy Whooves
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Looking For My Doctor
You said in the very post that the undesirables were the ones posting Nazi ponies
 
I’m sure to that artist people posting nazi ponies are undesirables. What’s your point?
 
@Background Pony #AB73  
has posted the full conversation
 
Provide a link.
 
You fucked up and continue to lie and change your story about it.
 
From my impression, looking at your history on this site, you are incapable of hearing anything anyone says that doesn’t confirm your bias. You have persistently harassed and been belligerent to others on the site, and have been so enormously off topic in threads that you appear to be doing it to get those threads locked.
Background Pony #AB73
My point is that you claimed to not know who they were. That’s a lie, bucko. And you said that you didn’t want “the vision you’re getting from those posting nazi ponies”. Which means that you either lied to the artist or you lied to the artists you tried to keep around who drew Aryanne.
 
I’m sure you’re trying to bait a ban for posting private messages and are going to call them a liar, but here.  
https://twitter.com/fozzlepip/status/1282076237654097920
Derpy Whooves
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Looking For My Doctor
@Background Pony #AB73  
That’s not even a fraction of the discussion I had with them. But that was when Rule #5 still banned nazi images.
 
I’m fascinated. What does my private discussion with someone I had been writing to for a month, have to do with any of this?
 
Which means that you either lied to the artist or you lied to the artists you tried to keep around who drew Aryanne.
 
No it doesn’t. I just means that I was talking to different people who wanted different things, at different times over the course of two months while this site changed admins and rules so often that we have to look at our notes to figure out what the rules were at any given point in time.
Background Pony #AB73
@Derpy Whooves  
So you’re calling them a liar and saying that they took it out of context still? Mind sharing whatever context will make that statement not an insult towards people who’ve drawn or posted Aryanne?
 
And tell me, what is it called when you tell someone something that you don’t mean? That’s right! A lie!  
Either you meant what you said to fozzlepip calling them undesirable people whose opinions are worthless to you or you lied to fozzlepip. It’s literally that simple. Which is it?
Background Pony #AB73
@Derpy Whooves  
And that has everything to do with this. How can the staff’s statements or application of the rules be trusted when their designated DNP and PR guy is insulting people, declaring them worth less than others, and then lying about that once it comes to light?  
It’s funny how you’re trying the off-topic line once you’re cornered. What’s next? The ban hammer?
CHurricane
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Devil's Advocate
This is a volunteer gig. Any one of us might not be here for a week or even a month if there are other things that are going on in our lives. There’s no kind of “clock in/clock out”, and none of us even really mention when we think we might be back. So, I have honestly no idea when they will return to this thread, assuming that they will.
 
I am aware that this is just a volounter job but i thought that maybe she/he did let other staff members know when he/she will be back so i asked. Sorry if my comment sounded aggressive to you it was not my intention.
 
For myself, at this point it seems that the questions have devolved to just endless accusations, or people asserting what they think others have said, so I’m not sure what benefit the thread is even serving any more. For me, this does not appear to be a beneficial conversation for anyone involved, and maybe something else should be considered or tried.
But perhaps Princess Luna feels that there is benefit in continuing this form of communication in this thread, and perhaps they will return and will answer some of the questions here. I don’t know.
 
I do agree that discussion is a little oftopic at the moment but i disagree that this thread serves no purpose anymore mere few hours ago the question of deleting some pics was asked and it was answered by Princess Luna and some images that were deleted were later reinstated(the boomer pic for example) while for those that were not reinstatet were given more elaborated reason for deletion than dry “rule 0” which is realy helping with transparency even if some deletion reasons are not convincing everyone.
 
 
So what i am trying to say us that discussion is on topic when there is a staff members that can adress questions and it goes off topic when there is no staff input.
 
Perhaps a good way of continueing this thread would be tempararyly locking it when there is no staff members aviable while at the same time in the lock reason provideing estimated time of reopening this discussion. It might be a good idea to implement to all threads that require significant staff input.
 
Anyway thank you for answearing my qestion. I hope i will be able to continue discussion tomorow.
Derpy Whooves
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Looking For My Doctor
For context, remember that the PM that is being discussed appears to have happened during the time that Rule #5 briefly forbade any nazi-themed content. So, Nazi-themed content was forbidden on this site.
 
@Background Pony #AB73  
So you’re calling them a liar
 
I am not a liar, but that last email was at the end of a very long discussion and it’s context is “We’ve lost you as an artist but hopefully we can part on good terms”.
 
Mind sharing whatever context will make that statement not an insult towards people who’ve drawn or posted Aryanne?
 
Oh - you misunderstand.
 
I would INFINITELY prefer that artist be on this site and a part of this community than yourself. I mean, it looks like we banned you repeatedly on your very first day here, and it seems the only reason you are on this site is because you feed on drama.
 
And tell me, what is it called when you tell someone something that you don’t mean?
 
What did I say to them that I didn’t mean?
 
I absolutely was telling the truth that I was sad to see them go. I hope they are still drawing MLP when G5 comes out, and I hope that by then this place will have sorted out all of its problems. And they are very much the kind of person and the quality of artist that I hope this site will attract. And I very much prefer their vision of this site’s future to your’s, and prefer their art to any of the art being posted by people who are fixated on OC:Aryanne or other Nazi-themed imagery.
 
No lies there.
 
@Background Pony #AB73  
their designated DNP and PR guy is insulting people, declaring them worth less than others, and then lying about that once it comes to light?
 
I am not the designated DNP or PR guy. I’ve never ever claimed to be a PR person for this site, and I only am the DNP person because apparently I’m one of the few people here who can survive the process of reaching out to hundreds of angry artists and talking with them day after day.
 
And as for ‘declaring them worth less than others’, it’s clear you’re a persistent ban evader who has harassed and been belligerent to other users of the site so often your next ban might be permanent, who we only are allowing on the site for the sake of transparency. If you start attacking other users of the site again, you’re gone. Again. So, yes - I would significantly prefer having that artist return to this community to having you as a permanent member of this community.
 
That should be clear to anyone with eyes to see.
Derpy Whooves
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Looking For My Doctor
Sorry if my comment sounded aggressive to you it was not my intention
 
That’s ok - sorry if my reply sounded aggressive to you. We just don’t know when people come and go - basically if someone is replying in mod chat, then they’re here. But if they aren’t replying, we don’t know when they will be back.
 
So what i am trying to say us that discussion is on topic when there is a staff members that can adress questions
 
Part of the problem is that there are so few staff members who can answer your questions.
 
For example, I can’t answer your questions about why images are or are not being deleted. I don’t know. I see that votes are happening, sometimes I participate in those votes, but I don’t see a pattern yet, so I can’t say why things are or are not being deleted. So it’s best that Princess Luna continue answering questions here when they are available.
 
and it goes off topic when there is no staff input.
 
Very much agreed.
 
Perhaps a good way of continueing this thread would be tempararyly locking it when there is no staff members aviable while at the same time in the lock reason provideing estimated time of reopening this discussion. It might be a good idea to implement to all threads that require significant staff input.
 
That’s a good idea. I’ll put that forward to the team.
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